• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:27
CEST 12:27
KST 19:27
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-69SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-64PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August)14Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE18
StarCraft 2
General
protoss aoe skill expression 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) StarCraft 2 at SC4ALL II Invite #3/8 - Clem Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard"
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Tasteless Time Warp: SC Evo Showmatch (May 25) SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-6 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch Mutation # 535 Assembly of Vengeance
Brood War
General
ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool Making an Online Broodwar Manager Game ASL22 General Discussion [Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60 Data needed
Tourneys
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3 Escore Tournament - Season 3 SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-6 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live! Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
The Clem Fan Club INnoVation Fan Club The Scarlett Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
What is a Gamer?
TrAiDoS
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5267 users

"S-Class" - Page 2

Blogs > Crunchums
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
Crunchums
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States11144 Posts
August 09 2010 20:19 GMT
#21
On August 10 2010 05:04 Housemd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2010 04:34 Crunchums wrote:
On August 10 2010 04:15 Housemd wrote:if you rank a person by how he is playing right now, best should be dropped down one spot. he has been tearing it up in the proleague but in the individual leagues he has not been doing so well.

This is another thing: People overvalue starleague performance when it comes to ranking. The way they work (i.e. single elimination bracket structure) is not conducive to ranking by skill.

Uhm....actually starleague performance is really important. In proleague you usually get two chances a week to improve your record, if you do not play the ace match (which best usually does not do) So you actually have more chances to win (you also have higher chances to play against players that are lower levels that you).

in the osl and msl, you get players that are the same level than you and/or better than you. However, you will most likely meet these players in the ro16 onwards. Before that, the caliber of your opponents are low level. Think about that. If you lose games to lower level opponents, it just shows that you suck. In single elimination the stakes are raised and playing on a higher level and winning shows the true caliber of a player.

The problem is that the order you play other players in is pretty fluky. Say you run round robin Bo3's with every player from the Ro36 (not realistic obv) for the first Korean Air OSL. Maybe Jaedong still loses to Baby, but I'd imagine he ends up rank higher than he would if you rank the players based on how early they got eliminated. Why then, are you punishing Jaedong for having played Baby in the Ro36 instead of the Ro8 or the Ro4? Whenever a player makes it far into an individual league everyone takes that as an indicator that they are kicking major ass but if I set up a Ro16 group of Hyuk, Shine, Movie, Skyhigh two of those players are going to make it into the Ro8 but that is not very impressive. There's certainly a correlation between progressing in individual leagues and ranking because you're not going to do it unless you win some games, but people like to strip away the context. Games in starleagues should be treated just like any other game.

Ranking players is a difficult problem because we have very few data points and BW is a volatile game of hidden information.
brood war for life, brood war forever
Tazza
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Korea (South)1678 Posts
August 09 2010 20:26 GMT
#22
Yeah, I agree that Jaedong and Flash should be the ONLY s-class players as of right now
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
August 09 2010 22:32 GMT
#23
I always think that S-Class are players that is favorite against everyone else except against other S-Class (50-50).
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary26003 Posts
August 09 2010 22:39 GMT
#24
I actually agree with your definition of S Class; I'm happy because it's hard to define but you did it well. I think it was really stupid to rate the progamers in your OP, because you just shifted the discussion from what S actually is to why people disagree with your subjective rankings.
Moderator
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Escore
10:00
Season 3 Week 5
escodisco1706
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
BRAT_OK 21
StarCraft: Brood War
Horang2 2318
Bisu 1238
Jaedong 618
firebathero 568
BeSt 256
Snow 246
Stork 208
EffOrt 193
Soma 181
Leta 163
[ Show more ]
Light 155
Larva 137
Mind 70
ZerO 67
NaDa 64
Bale 52
Dewaltoss 41
hero 37
Sharp 36
Barracks 32
scan(afreeca) 31
sSak 29
sorry 20
Sexy 15
zelot 13
Terrorterran 9
ajuk12(nOOB) 8
Counter-Strike
summit1g5853
fl0m4130
shoxiejesuss908
byalli759
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King128
Other Games
singsing1277
ceh9643
B2W.Neo432
Sick166
ZerO(Twitch)10
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 84
• LUISG 36
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV604
• lizZardDota2292
League of Legends
• Jankos1202
Upcoming Events
IntoTheTV X SOOP
33m
Big Brain Bouts
5h 33m
DnS vs Rex
Reynor vs Cure
Replay Cast
13h 33m
RSL Revival
22h 33m
herO vs SHIN
Clem vs Solar
Serral vs Rogue
Ladder Legends
1d 7h
Ladder Legends
1d 9h
RSL Revival
1d 22h
OSC
2 days
OSC
2 days
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
[ Show More ]
The Patches Monday
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
PiG Sty Festival
4 days
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-05
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
Acropolis #5
Escore Tournament S3: W6
RSL Revival: Season 6
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W7
CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Escore Tournament S3: W8
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
Thunderpick World Champ.
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.