• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:35
CEST 19:35
KST 02:35
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection1Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview4[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026)7
Community News
StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th83Weekly Cups (May 18-25): MaxPax wins doubles0Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League4Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double1Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results2
StarCraft 2
General
Changing from 12 to 8 is just asking for StarCraft StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection
Tourneys
GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Welcome to the External Content forum Mutation # 527 Hell Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 526 Rubber and Glue
Brood War
General
FlaShFTW vs A.Alm Grudge Match Event BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ VPN experiences Every Matchup's Top 5 Winrates (all ASLs & KSLs) Pros React To: ASL S21 Finals
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [BSL22] WB Final & LB Semis - Saturday 21:00 CEST
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Path of Exile Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Trading/Investing Thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Customization Drives Loyalty…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3155 users

"S-Class" - Page 2

Blogs > Crunchums
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
Crunchums
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States11144 Posts
August 09 2010 20:19 GMT
#21
On August 10 2010 05:04 Housemd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2010 04:34 Crunchums wrote:
On August 10 2010 04:15 Housemd wrote:if you rank a person by how he is playing right now, best should be dropped down one spot. he has been tearing it up in the proleague but in the individual leagues he has not been doing so well.

This is another thing: People overvalue starleague performance when it comes to ranking. The way they work (i.e. single elimination bracket structure) is not conducive to ranking by skill.

Uhm....actually starleague performance is really important. In proleague you usually get two chances a week to improve your record, if you do not play the ace match (which best usually does not do) So you actually have more chances to win (you also have higher chances to play against players that are lower levels that you).

in the osl and msl, you get players that are the same level than you and/or better than you. However, you will most likely meet these players in the ro16 onwards. Before that, the caliber of your opponents are low level. Think about that. If you lose games to lower level opponents, it just shows that you suck. In single elimination the stakes are raised and playing on a higher level and winning shows the true caliber of a player.

The problem is that the order you play other players in is pretty fluky. Say you run round robin Bo3's with every player from the Ro36 (not realistic obv) for the first Korean Air OSL. Maybe Jaedong still loses to Baby, but I'd imagine he ends up rank higher than he would if you rank the players based on how early they got eliminated. Why then, are you punishing Jaedong for having played Baby in the Ro36 instead of the Ro8 or the Ro4? Whenever a player makes it far into an individual league everyone takes that as an indicator that they are kicking major ass but if I set up a Ro16 group of Hyuk, Shine, Movie, Skyhigh two of those players are going to make it into the Ro8 but that is not very impressive. There's certainly a correlation between progressing in individual leagues and ranking because you're not going to do it unless you win some games, but people like to strip away the context. Games in starleagues should be treated just like any other game.

Ranking players is a difficult problem because we have very few data points and BW is a volatile game of hidden information.
brood war for life, brood war forever
Tazza
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Korea (South)1678 Posts
August 09 2010 20:26 GMT
#22
Yeah, I agree that Jaedong and Flash should be the ONLY s-class players as of right now
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
August 09 2010 22:32 GMT
#23
I always think that S-Class are players that is favorite against everyone else except against other S-Class (50-50).
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25998 Posts
August 09 2010 22:39 GMT
#24
I actually agree with your definition of S Class; I'm happy because it's hard to define but you did it well. I think it was really stupid to rate the progamers in your OP, because you just shifted the discussion from what S actually is to why people disagree with your subjective rankings.
Moderator
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
IPSL
16:00
Ro16 Group C
ZZZero vs WorsT
Julia vs eOnzErG
Liquipedia
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
15:00
Season 2: Warm Up Cup #3
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 581
BRAT_OK 84
ProTech82
Railgan 71
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 25836
Zeus 178
Rock 33
Sacsri 26
Sexy 23
ajuk12(nOOB) 18
Dota 2
Gorgc5460
qojqva1292
LuMiX0
Counter-Strike
fl0m1696
taco 217
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu291
Other Games
singsing3115
Grubby2802
B2W.Neo567
Beastyqt487
Trikslyr37
MindelVK12
fpsfer 1
Organizations
Other Games
EGCTV530
gamesdonequick443
BasetradeTV275
Counter-Strike
PGL186
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HeavenSC 37
• printf 37
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• BsK 0
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Airneanach94
• Michael_bg 10
• FirePhoenix5
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos2062
Upcoming Events
BSL
1h 25m
TerrOr vs Dewalt
Bonyth vs eOnzErG
Replay Cast
6h 25m
RSL Revival
13h 25m
Lambo vs Rogue
Clem vs TBD
herO vs TBD
Maestros of the Game
19h 25m
SHIN vs Nicoract
Rogue vs Gerald
ByuN vs Shameless
Cure vs TriGGeR
OSC
19h 25m
IPSL
22h 25m
Dragon vs Artosis
dxtr13 vs Hawk
BSL
1d 1h
Wardi Open
1d 18h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 22h
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Spring Champion…
2 days
Maestros of the Game
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
Maestros of the Game
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
WardiTV Spring Champion…
4 days
Maestros of the Game
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
Maestros of the Game
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Solar vs Classic
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: King of Kings
2026 GSL S1
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

2026 KK StarCraft Pro League
BSL Season 22
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
KK 2v2 League Season 1
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
Murky Cup 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Heroes Pulsing #3
Heroes Pulsing #2
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.