• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:31
CEST 07:31
KST 14:31
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview10TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection5Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2
Community News
[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June2Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th151Weekly Cups (May 18-24): MaxPax wins doubles0Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League6
StarCraft 2
General
TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview What kind of tool would you be interested in? Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) WardiTV Mondays Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed Mutation # 528 Infection Detected Welcome to the External Content forum
Brood War
General
FlaSh's ASL S21 Finals Review 25 Years Since Brood War Patch 1.08 [BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June BW animated web series: seeking contributors FlaShFTW vs A.Alm Grudge Match Event
Tourneys
[BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST [ASL21] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Any training maps people recommend? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace Megathread Summer Games Done Quick 2026! Nintendo Switch Thread The Perfect Game Path of Exile
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
Trading/Investing Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Esportsmanship: How to NOT B…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5919 users

"S-Class" - Page 2

Blogs > Crunchums
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
Crunchums
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States11144 Posts
August 09 2010 20:19 GMT
#21
On August 10 2010 05:04 Housemd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 10 2010 04:34 Crunchums wrote:
On August 10 2010 04:15 Housemd wrote:if you rank a person by how he is playing right now, best should be dropped down one spot. he has been tearing it up in the proleague but in the individual leagues he has not been doing so well.

This is another thing: People overvalue starleague performance when it comes to ranking. The way they work (i.e. single elimination bracket structure) is not conducive to ranking by skill.

Uhm....actually starleague performance is really important. In proleague you usually get two chances a week to improve your record, if you do not play the ace match (which best usually does not do) So you actually have more chances to win (you also have higher chances to play against players that are lower levels that you).

in the osl and msl, you get players that are the same level than you and/or better than you. However, you will most likely meet these players in the ro16 onwards. Before that, the caliber of your opponents are low level. Think about that. If you lose games to lower level opponents, it just shows that you suck. In single elimination the stakes are raised and playing on a higher level and winning shows the true caliber of a player.

The problem is that the order you play other players in is pretty fluky. Say you run round robin Bo3's with every player from the Ro36 (not realistic obv) for the first Korean Air OSL. Maybe Jaedong still loses to Baby, but I'd imagine he ends up rank higher than he would if you rank the players based on how early they got eliminated. Why then, are you punishing Jaedong for having played Baby in the Ro36 instead of the Ro8 or the Ro4? Whenever a player makes it far into an individual league everyone takes that as an indicator that they are kicking major ass but if I set up a Ro16 group of Hyuk, Shine, Movie, Skyhigh two of those players are going to make it into the Ro8 but that is not very impressive. There's certainly a correlation between progressing in individual leagues and ranking because you're not going to do it unless you win some games, but people like to strip away the context. Games in starleagues should be treated just like any other game.

Ranking players is a difficult problem because we have very few data points and BW is a volatile game of hidden information.
brood war for life, brood war forever
Tazza
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Korea (South)1678 Posts
August 09 2010 20:26 GMT
#22
Yeah, I agree that Jaedong and Flash should be the ONLY s-class players as of right now
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
August 09 2010 22:32 GMT
#23
I always think that S-Class are players that is favorite against everyone else except against other S-Class (50-50).
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25998 Posts
August 09 2010 22:39 GMT
#24
I actually agree with your definition of S Class; I'm happy because it's hard to define but you did it well. I think it was really stupid to rate the progamers in your OP, because you just shifted the discussion from what S actually is to why people disagree with your subjective rankings.
Moderator
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
Amantes de StarCraft 2 #45
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech87
Nina 75
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 4297
Rain 2606
Hyuk 622
Dewaltoss 87
Sharp 68
Leta 55
ZergMaN 53
Bale 13
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm96
canceldota8
League of Legends
JimRising 744
Counter-Strike
m0e_tv523
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King86
ChuDatz33
Other Games
summit1g12301
C9.Mang0553
PiGStarcraft498
WinterStarcraft369
XaKoH 284
RuFF_SC276
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick777
BasetradeTV260
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH92
• practicex 32
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Diggity4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1220
• Lourlo1096
• Nemesis648
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4h 29m
PiGosaur Cup
18h 29m
Replay Cast
1d 3h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 5h
Maestros of the Game
1d 9h
Classic vs Lambo
Clem vs Maru
Replay Cast
1d 18h
The PondCast
2 days
Maestros of the Game
2 days
Serral vs Rogue
herO vs SHIN
Replay Cast
2 days
Maestros of the Game
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
OSC
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Season 22
2026 GSL S2
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
Acropolis #4 - GSB
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Heroes Pulsing #3
Heroes Pulsing #2
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.