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Hey guys,
In a nutshell, I support RealID for forums because
A) Trolling is too much of an issue, especially on Bnet/Wow forums
B) I believe that everyone should have a reputation, if you express extremist opinions (As I've being told mine is on this issue) and people form an opinion of you then so be it.
C) With things like social networking becoming more of an everyday utility, the distinction between your handle and your real name is non existent. You should be held accountable ALWAYS, there is no difference between what Mecha says online (Me) and what Nathan Townsend (Yes shock horror my name :O) would say A) in real life and B) anywhere else.
D) I believe this does more good than harm to get people (I'm looking at overprotective parents and ignorant teens) who play wow to learn more about how much more secure the internet is and how ignorance is not bliss.
I've heard all of these counter-arguments. Guess what? If some freak adds you on facebook and he has no mutual friends do you know what you do? say NO. You are never denied that on Facebook or any other social networking site I've ever seen. If someone starts being an ass in a thread with your name on it, Edit your portion out, talk to a mod or even delete the post if you were OP and have the rights.
Cmon people, become accountable for what you say, i'm pretty bothered by this because the bnet/wow forums are a mess that has to be cleaned up (and the wow community in general).
People seem to have this idea of hiding gaming history from future employers, but why? So what if you played wow for 2 years? Your boss thinks your a nerd, i don't lie when people ask me about that in real life since i have enough sense to pick my friends (who understand if it isn't their thing). People you meet in real life are alot more genuine (especially employers) than you think, it may help you get the job.
This may not be an example for RealID, but imagine if your employer was like this guy's: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=134229
Pretty sure you'd instantly have a job. Its a longshot, I've worked for around about 5 different places so far in my lifetime, and i can't think of one employer who would judge me on that and I've worked at MacDonalds and other similar places.
There isn't much distinction between Mecha and Nathan, in fact I've had some pretty interesting conversations about this in real life already and how i actually believe that this would help gaming.
The internet is no longer just a cute gimmicky toy like it was around 10 years ago where different niche communities would do their own thing with their own figureheads. The internet is turning more into a utility for everybody than anything else. People should learn this, if you want to hide behind that sort of avatar and use the internet as such a thing then go play services such as Xbox Live, PSN and maybe even Steam then by all means do that. But with the way Battle.net 2.0 and how WoW is aimed more at your average player (hence the trolling/community issues that I constantly face) you need to learn that WoW is turning more and more into Mafia Wars and Farmville where people play it just to be social and because its easy to learn and easily rewarding with things such as easy acheivements, raids etc. (Another blog, another time i think).
Thats enough from me, ranty I know but I want to see peoples opinions on this.
EDIT: Totalbiscuit of Cynicalbrit.com has a very interesting piece on this in his popular show Blue Plz!
Link: http://cynicalbrit.com/audio/blueplz060710.mp3 (Around an hour in)
Sorry for shameless plug but its definitely reinforcing.
 
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Firstly, having your real name as your ID does not stop trolling. Instead of someone named 'elitepwner666' trolling the forums, it will be someone named 'Mike Litoris'.
Secondly, the value of the internet stems from being anonymous. It is a place where you can express who you truly are without needing to uphold a reputation. That makes for a much better community. In real life, everyone is hiding behind a mask, and they can only show their true personality to their closest friends. Online is a place where you can trust everyone and express what you want to everyone since there's nothing to lose. 4chan is a primary example of a good community. People say and do what they want and enjoy it. They wouldn't be able to do that in real life. If I happen to find 9/11 or Haidi jokes funny, then on 4chan, I can joke around at will, while in real life, I have to pretend that I care.
If someone feels like they are benefitted by revealing their personal information on the internet, they are free to do so. We don't need to enforce this on everyone.
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Everyone does have a reputation on these forums, I just don't want to have that one tied to my real life persona. I'm not ashamed to love sc, if someone asked me what my interests are I always say starcraft but if I was googled, I don't really want the first (and probably only) thing about to come up out be is that I have almost 1500 posts about starcraft. It doesn't paint me favorably or accurately as individual
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Well Mr.Townsend
1. If trolling is so bad, why don't they have moderators like we have here on TL?
2. Why should your internet reputation be tied to your real name? What if a potential employer sees your posts, if I was trying to get a job, I probably wouldn't wan't them to know I'm a starcraft addict (but everyone on TL can know that :3), much less a WoW player (I don't play that garbage though).
3. What does social networking have to do with the coexistence of your online handle and real name? I don't know anyone who ties their real name and online name together in such a manner (besides pokebunny).
4. It has good intentions, and it probably does more good in the short run, but it has a higher potential to be bad, with all the crazy fucks we have on the internet.
I didn't really care about the change because I don't use blizz forums anyways, but its gone now so none of this really matter lol.
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It's not an issue of accountability, it's an issue of privacy. Most (if not all) of these "trolls" are 13 and under and have no sense of maturity. They think it's fun to mock someone's real name or look up all their personal information on Google. I have a pretty unique name myself so I'm easy to find in searches, plus I shouldn't have to use a service that is supposed to be "optional" and "voluntary." just to post of the forums. Yes, people hide the fact that they play video games from potential employers, but I can understand that. Saying you play World of Warcraft to most people is like saying you're some pimply fat 13 year old who does nothing but play all day long, which is unfortunate and shouldn't be true.
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On July 10 2010 03:19 Chairman Ray wrote:
Firstly, having your real name as your ID does not stop trolling. Instead of someone named 'elitepwner666' trolling the forums, it will be someone named 'Mike Litoris'.
Secondly, the value of the internet stems from being anonymous. It is a place where you can express who you truly are without needing to uphold a reputation. That makes for a much better community. In real life, everyone is hiding behind a mask, and they can only show their true personality to their closest friends. Online is a place where you can trust everyone and express what you want to everyone since there's nothing to lose. 4chan is a primary example of a good community. People say and do what they want and enjoy it. They wouldn't be able to do that in real life. If I happen to find 9/11 or Haidi jokes funny, then on 4chan, I can joke around at will, while in real life, I have to pretend that I care.
If someone feels like they are benefitted by revealing their personal information on the internet, they are free to do so. We don't need to enforce this on everyone.
You'll never completely stop trolling, but it will at least apply some sort of quality control to anyone who has a bnet account like mine that has every blizzard game i've ever owned and my real name attached to it. Itll decrease the shitstorm of trolling by alot, and even get people to think before doing shit like that.
Maybe you missed my point, it doesn't matter what the internets power stems from, while I don't believe places like TL.net need RealID (Good mods, some quality control and its a niche community) which are still those communities I mentioned earlier. Like I said, the internet is quickly turning into a utility, if you want to troll, troll somewhere that isn't becoming an everyday thing (like WoW/Bnet 2.0 seems to be becoming). You wouldn't walk into school/work and start making Women inferiority jokes because you felt like it would you? Then don't do it on Bnet, Its as simple as that in my opinion.
4chan? Good community? No, FREE community. Thats the best example of a place where everyone can just let off steam, perhaps you misunderstand me, i'm against RealID for places like 4chan but specifically for Bnet I believe it serves a big purpose.
Does that clear anything up?
It's not an issue of accountability, it's an issue of privacy. Most (if not all) of these "trolls" are 13 and under and have no sense of maturity. They think it's fun to mock someone's real name or look up all their personal information on Google. I have a pretty unique name myself so I'm easy to find in searches, plus I shouldn't have to use a service that is supposed to be "optional" and "voluntary." just to post of the forums. Yes, people hide the fact that they play video games from potential employers, but I can understand that. Saying you play World of Warcraft to most people is like saying you're some pimply fat 13 year old who does nothing but play all day long, which is unfortunate and shouldn't be true.
Maybe, but like i said, its about teaching people who decide to be ignorant of this sort of thing. Thats fine, but everyone also sees other communities in certain lights, and we have to either A) Prove them wrong and B) Deal with it and get to know the person. Saying you play Farmville on facebook basically makes you a non-gamer in alot of gamers eyes, saying you come from TL.net and play starcraft apparently makes you an elitist cave-troll with no life.
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On July 10 2010 03:24 Megalisk wrote:
Well Mr.Townsend
1. If trolling is so bad, why don't they have moderators like we have here on TL?
2. Why should your internet reputation be tied to your real name? What if a potential employer sees your posts, if I was trying to get a job, I probably wouldn't wan't them to know I'm a starcraft addict (but everyone on TL can know that :3), much less a WoW player (I don't play that garbage though).
3. What does social networking have to do with the coexistence of your online handle and real name? I don't know anyone who ties their real name and online name together in such a manner (besides pokebunny).
4. It has good intentions, and it probably does more good in the short run, but it has a higher potential to be bad, with all the crazy fucks we have on the internet.
I didn't really care about the change because I don't use blizz forums anyways, but its gone now so none of this really matter lol.
1) Try doing that with 5+ Million trolls for a community thats not as forgiving as TL.net that contributes less
2) Why not? You wouldn't lie about your interests and why should you?
3) Erm, its because everyone and their mother exists on social networking and when RealID is mentioned people have this idea of facebook stalking and reputations.
4) Just like in real life, you have ALOT of control over the people you see/befriend. Say no to their facebook requests, don't bait them on the forums etc. eventually they get bored.
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I think you missed the mark again Mecha.
As Ray said in his first post. Everyone is always hiding behind masks in real life. You have to act a certain way, or say certain things to progress farther down lifes track. However in the presence of your friends you can be a completely different person. The internet operates in a very similar fashion to your friends in the regards of this:
You can be who you are, without being judged for it.
Who cares if magicwander doesn't like your random sex joke, because 10 other people did. Taking away someones alias and forcing them to use their name means they have to act online like they would if they were at work.
To give you a general example. My boss used to be part owner of a nightclub in town. His first step when he got a new resume was to search them on facebook to see their friend count and see what their interests were. He would then choose to call back based on what he saw there.
This is a minor example of what people do, but employer's are more and more researching potential hires by googling them or the like to see more of who they are.
RealID doesn't help any longterm problem, it just makes peoples lives marginally worse by narrowing the scope in which they can be themselves.
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On July 10 2010 03:35 Mecha_cl wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2010 03:24 Megalisk wrote:
Well Mr.Townsend
1. If trolling is so bad, why don't they have moderators like we have here on TL?
2. Why should your internet reputation be tied to your real name? What if a potential employer sees your posts, if I was trying to get a job, I probably wouldn't wan't them to know I'm a starcraft addict (but everyone on TL can know that :3), much less a WoW player (I don't play that garbage though).
3. What does social networking have to do with the coexistence of your online handle and real name? I don't know anyone who ties their real name and online name together in such a manner (besides pokebunny).
4. It has good intentions, and it probably does more good in the short run, but it has a higher potential to be bad, with all the crazy fucks we have on the internet.
I didn't really care about the change because I don't use blizz forums anyways, but its gone now so none of this really matter lol. 1) Try doing that with 5+ Million trolls for a community thats not as forgiving as TL.net that contributes less 2) Why not? You wouldn't lie about your interests and why should you? 3) Erm, its because everyone and their mother exists on social networking and when RealID is mentioned people have this idea of facebook stalking and reputations. 4) Just like in real life, you have ALOT of control over the people you see/befriend. Say no to their facebook requests, don't bait them on the forums etc. eventually they get bored.
1. Its simple, if a guy is a douche then ban him from the forums.
2. I would lie about my interests if it meant getting a certain job.
3. There are other ways to harass people besides facebook/RL stalking you know.
4. Dedicated trolls always find a way to annoy you.
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On July 10 2010 03:25 Mecha_cl wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2010 03:19 Chairman Ray wrote:
Firstly, having your real name as your ID does not stop trolling. Instead of someone named 'elitepwner666' trolling the forums, it will be someone named 'Mike Litoris'.
Secondly, the value of the internet stems from being anonymous. It is a place where you can express who you truly are without needing to uphold a reputation. That makes for a much better community. In real life, everyone is hiding behind a mask, and they can only show their true personality to their closest friends. Online is a place where you can trust everyone and express what you want to everyone since there's nothing to lose. 4chan is a primary example of a good community. People say and do what they want and enjoy it. They wouldn't be able to do that in real life. If I happen to find 9/11 or Haidi jokes funny, then on 4chan, I can joke around at will, while in real life, I have to pretend that I care.
If someone feels like they are benefitted by revealing their personal information on the internet, they are free to do so. We don't need to enforce this on everyone. You'll never completely stop trolling, but it will at least apply some sort of quality control to anyone who has a bnet account like mine that has every blizzard game i've ever owned and my real name attached to it. Itll decrease the shitstorm of trolling by alot, and even get people to think before doing shit like that. Maybe you missed my point, it doesn't matter what the internets power stems from, while I don't believe places like TL.net need RealID (Good mods, some quality control and its a niche community) which are still those communities I mentioned earlier. Like I said, the internet is quickly turning into a utility, if you want to troll, troll somewhere that isn't becoming an everyday thing (like WoW/Bnet 2.0 seems to be becoming). You wouldn't walk into school/work and start making Women inferiority jokes because you felt like it would you? Then don't do it on Bnet, Its as simple as that in my opinion. 4chan? Good community? No, FREE community. Thats the best example of a place where everyone can just let off steam, perhaps you misunderstand me, i'm against RealID for places like 4chan but specifically for Bnet I believe it serves a big purpose. Does that clear anything up? Show nested quote +It's not an issue of accountability, it's an issue of privacy. Most (if not all) of these "trolls" are 13 and under and have no sense of maturity. They think it's fun to mock someone's real name or look up all their personal information on Google. I have a pretty unique name myself so I'm easy to find in searches, plus I shouldn't have to use a service that is supposed to be "optional" and "voluntary." just to post of the forums. Yes, people hide the fact that they play video games from potential employers, but I can understand that. Saying you play World of Warcraft to most people is like saying you're some pimply fat 13 year old who does nothing but play all day long, which is unfortunate and shouldn't be true. Maybe, but like i said, its about teaching people who decide to be ignorant of this sort of thing. Thats fine, but everyone also sees other communities in certain lights, and we have to either A) Prove them wrong and B) Deal with it and get to know the person. Saying you play Farmville on facebook basically makes you a non-gamer in alot of gamers eyes, saying you come from TL.net and play starcraft apparently makes you an elitist cave-troll with no life.
Talking about the bnet forums specfically, what can having RealID's accomplish that modding cannot? Whenever someone on TL gets warned or banned, it shows up in big red letters and shows everyone what kind of posts are not allowed. On a lot of other forums, they have a rating system where negatively rated posts are hidden. There are plenty of successfully proven methods that stop trolling and do not provide any drawbacks or create a million accounts named 'Willie Stroker'. Bnet has not done any of this yet. Instead, Bnet is jumping straight into revealing personal information. Revealing personal information can only harm or be at neutral, it cannot help in any way. This is because we are already given the option to reveal personal information by ourselves. I don't see the benefits of people being forced to reveal personal information over people having the option of revealing their personal information. Additionally, this discourages people from using bnet forums as a whole. If someone is uncomfortable with people knowing their real name, then they won't use the forums at all. This is a drawback for both the individual and bnet.
In regards to your point about making women inferiority jokes, a lot of females hide their gender online just to avoid this kind of thing. By forcing them to reveal their real life name, it reveals that they are a female. This doesn't reduce trolling at all, this is giving trolls a sitting duck!
In the larger picture, realID is an inferior method of stopping trolling as compared to conventional methods, if someone would be benefitted by having their personal information revealed, they can do it under the status quo, and if someone would be harmed, they are protected under the status quo.
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On July 10 2010 03:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
I think you missed the mark again Mecha.
As Ray said in his first post. Everyone is always hiding behind masks in real life. You have to act a certain way, or say certain things to progress farther down lifes track. However in the presence of your friends you can be a completely different person. The internet operates in a very similar fashion to your friends in the regards of this:
You can be who you are, without being judged for it.
Who cares if magicwander doesn't like your random sex joke, because 10 other people did. Taking away someones alias and forcing them to use their name means they have to act online like they would if they were at work.
To give you a general example. My boss used to be part owner of a nightclub in town. His first step when he got a new resume was to search them on facebook to see their friend count and see what their interests were. He would then choose to call back based on what he saw there.
This is a minor example of what people do, but employer's are more and more researching potential hires by googling them or the like to see more of who they are.
RealID doesn't help any longterm problem, it just makes peoples lives marginally worse by narrowing the scope in which they can be themselves.
While I respect you're opinion (and experience) I've found different, nobody (including employers) have ever judged me based on what I do, in fact, 2 interviews ago I can recall the manager asking what I like to do, I immediately said 'Gaming, Cricket and Podcasting' instantly, he didn't really understand so I spent 5 minutes explaining exactly what podcasts are and how they differ from what he knows. I ended up getting the job because the Manager instantly realised I can basically sell anything that i'd need to in the store (commission work you see).
I know what you mean about the personalities differing from your name, but I believe that if you're using utilities such as Bnet 2.0 that is linked with social networking, you shouldn't have a free pass to be asse's to other people without feeling bad because they'll never know anything more than your username, at least you think twice (Even i do, and im quite liberal as you can see).
I've mentioned several times that I want it for select sites, if you want to make sex jokes etc. then take it to websites made for it or people who you are sure won't be offended.
1. Its simple, if a guy is a douche then ban him from the forums.
2. I would lie about my interests if it meant getting a certain job.
3. There are other ways to harass people besides facebook/RL stalking you know.
4. Dedicated trolls always find a way to annoy you.
1. Yeah, too bad its not enforced anyway. RealID at least try and solves the issue.
2. Really? Then you're way too self-conscious and aren't confident - Sorry thats harsh but its true, what do you have to hide? I mean for gods sake gaming does actually give you skills in such things.
3. Alright, i'd like too see someone come to Canberra Australia and come shake my hand and refer me to this. Thats an overstatement but regardless thats the broad strokes/percentiles of stalking for this sort of thing.
4. Great, and now we know their name! They may go somewhere else to do this, idiots take the least path of resistance (6pooling diamond players?) all the time, they'll go troll somewhere where its not as enforced (Most of them)
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On July 10 2010 03:45 Chairman Ray wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2010 03:25 Mecha_cl wrote:On July 10 2010 03:19 Chairman Ray wrote:
Firstly, having your real name as your ID does not stop trolling. Instead of someone named 'elitepwner666' trolling the forums, it will be someone named 'Mike Litoris'.
Secondly, the value of the internet stems from being anonymous. It is a place where you can express who you truly are without needing to uphold a reputation. That makes for a much better community. In real life, everyone is hiding behind a mask, and they can only show their true personality to their closest friends. Online is a place where you can trust everyone and express what you want to everyone since there's nothing to lose. 4chan is a primary example of a good community. People say and do what they want and enjoy it. They wouldn't be able to do that in real life. If I happen to find 9/11 or Haidi jokes funny, then on 4chan, I can joke around at will, while in real life, I have to pretend that I care.
If someone feels like they are benefitted by revealing their personal information on the internet, they are free to do so. We don't need to enforce this on everyone. You'll never completely stop trolling, but it will at least apply some sort of quality control to anyone who has a bnet account like mine that has every blizzard game i've ever owned and my real name attached to it. Itll decrease the shitstorm of trolling by alot, and even get people to think before doing shit like that. Maybe you missed my point, it doesn't matter what the internets power stems from, while I don't believe places like TL.net need RealID (Good mods, some quality control and its a niche community) which are still those communities I mentioned earlier. Like I said, the internet is quickly turning into a utility, if you want to troll, troll somewhere that isn't becoming an everyday thing (like WoW/Bnet 2.0 seems to be becoming). You wouldn't walk into school/work and start making Women inferiority jokes because you felt like it would you? Then don't do it on Bnet, Its as simple as that in my opinion. 4chan? Good community? No, FREE community. Thats the best example of a place where everyone can just let off steam, perhaps you misunderstand me, i'm against RealID for places like 4chan but specifically for Bnet I believe it serves a big purpose. Does that clear anything up? It's not an issue of accountability, it's an issue of privacy. Most (if not all) of these "trolls" are 13 and under and have no sense of maturity. They think it's fun to mock someone's real name or look up all their personal information on Google. I have a pretty unique name myself so I'm easy to find in searches, plus I shouldn't have to use a service that is supposed to be "optional" and "voluntary." just to post of the forums. Yes, people hide the fact that they play video games from potential employers, but I can understand that. Saying you play World of Warcraft to most people is like saying you're some pimply fat 13 year old who does nothing but play all day long, which is unfortunate and shouldn't be true. Maybe, but like i said, its about teaching people who decide to be ignorant of this sort of thing. Thats fine, but everyone also sees other communities in certain lights, and we have to either A) Prove them wrong and B) Deal with it and get to know the person. Saying you play Farmville on facebook basically makes you a non-gamer in alot of gamers eyes, saying you come from TL.net and play starcraft apparently makes you an elitist cave-troll with no life. Talking about the bnet forums specfically, what can having RealID's accomplish that modding cannot? Whenever someone on TL gets warned or banned, it shows up in big red letters and shows everyone what kind of posts are not allowed. On a lot of other forums, they have a rating system where negatively rated posts are hidden. There are plenty of successfully proven methods that stop trolling and do not provide any drawbacks or create a million accounts named 'Willie Stroker'. Bnet has not done any of this yet. Instead, Bnet is jumping straight into revealing personal information. Revealing personal information can only harm or be at neutral, it cannot help in any way. This is because we are already given the option to reveal personal information by ourselves. I don't see the benefits of people being forced to reveal personal information over people having the option of revealing their personal information. Additionally, this discourages people from using bnet forums as a whole. If someone is uncomfortable with people knowing their real name, then they won't use the forums at all. This is a drawback for both the individual and bnet. In regards to your point about making women inferiority jokes, a lot of females hide their gender online just to avoid this kind of thing. By forcing them to reveal their real life name, it reveals that they are a female. This doesn't reduce trolling at all, this is giving trolls a sitting duck! In the larger picture, realID is an inferior method of stopping trolling as compared to conventional methods, if someone would be benefitted by having their personal information revealed, they can do it under the status quo, and if someone would be harmed, they are protected under the status quo.
This is huge and I have alot to say on the matter but something we need to understand first is the intention of realID. RealID on forums is a side effect of Bnet 2.0 facebook intergration, Blizzard figures they might as well implement it everywhere.
I completely agree with what you said as regards to the better system, But i think that any system is better than none no? And it seems like people only speak out when shit like this happens (the backlash from this for example) rather than when they feel safe. If half as many people had being asking for systems like used at TL.net for modding as mentioned above then we wouldn't be here.
Hiding genders, no offense and this will come out pretty harsh: Grow a thick skin, if some 13 year old starts hitting on you because your name's Sarah then you can ignore him via not even reading it, using block communication etc. For gods sake Mods on bnet should pick up on these things regardless.
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On July 10 2010 03:50 Mecha_cl wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2010 03:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
I think you missed the mark again Mecha.
As Ray said in his first post. Everyone is always hiding behind masks in real life. You have to act a certain way, or say certain things to progress farther down lifes track. However in the presence of your friends you can be a completely different person. The internet operates in a very similar fashion to your friends in the regards of this:
You can be who you are, without being judged for it.
Who cares if magicwander doesn't like your random sex joke, because 10 other people did. Taking away someones alias and forcing them to use their name means they have to act online like they would if they were at work.
To give you a general example. My boss used to be part owner of a nightclub in town. His first step when he got a new resume was to search them on facebook to see their friend count and see what their interests were. He would then choose to call back based on what he saw there.
This is a minor example of what people do, but employer's are more and more researching potential hires by googling them or the like to see more of who they are.
RealID doesn't help any longterm problem, it just makes peoples lives marginally worse by narrowing the scope in which they can be themselves. While I respect you're opinion (and experience) I've found different, nobody (including employers) have ever judged me based on what I do, in fact, 2 interviews ago I can recall the manager asking what I like to do, I immediately said 'Gaming, Cricket and Podcasting' instantly, he didn't really understand so I spent 5 minutes explaining exactly what podcasts are and how they differ from what he knows. I ended up getting the job because the Manager instantly realised I can basically sell anything that i'd need to in the store (commission work you see). I know what you mean about the personalities differing from your name, but I believe that if you're using utilities such as Bnet 2.0 that is linked with social networking, you shouldn't have a free pass to be asse's to other people without feeling bad because they'll never know anything more than your username, at least you think twice (Even i do, and im quite liberal as you can see). I've mentioned several times that I want it for select sites, if you want to make sex jokes etc. then take it to websites made for it or people who you are sure won't be offended.
In order to prove your employer argument, you have to prove that it is the case for 100% of people. Then you have to prove how people giving the option to tell their employers that they play video games isn't enough, that information has to be forcefully revealed online.
This entire issue isn't about trolling vs no trolling. It's about method A vs method B for stopping trolling. Why are conventional methods to stopping trolling so ineffective and revealing personal information more effective?
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On July 10 2010 03:50 Mecha_cl wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2010 03:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
I think you missed the mark again Mecha.
As Ray said in his first post. Everyone is always hiding behind masks in real life. You have to act a certain way, or say certain things to progress farther down lifes track. However in the presence of your friends you can be a completely different person. The internet operates in a very similar fashion to your friends in the regards of this:
You can be who you are, without being judged for it.
Who cares if magicwander doesn't like your random sex joke, because 10 other people did. Taking away someones alias and forcing them to use their name means they have to act online like they would if they were at work.
To give you a general example. My boss used to be part owner of a nightclub in town. His first step when he got a new resume was to search them on facebook to see their friend count and see what their interests were. He would then choose to call back based on what he saw there.
This is a minor example of what people do, but employer's are more and more researching potential hires by googling them or the like to see more of who they are.
RealID doesn't help any longterm problem, it just makes peoples lives marginally worse by narrowing the scope in which they can be themselves. While I respect you're opinion (and experience) I've found different, nobody (including employers) have ever judged me based on what I do, in fact, 2 interviews ago I can recall the manager asking what I like to do, I immediately said 'Gaming, Cricket and Podcasting' instantly, he didn't really understand so I spent 5 minutes explaining exactly what podcasts are and how they differ from what he knows. I ended up getting the job because the Manager instantly realised I can basically sell anything that i'd need to in the store (commission work you see). I know what you mean about the personalities differing from your name, but I believe that if you're using utilities such as Bnet 2.0 that is linked with social networking, you shouldn't have a free pass to be asse's to other people without feeling bad because they'll never know anything more than your username, at least you think twice (Even i do, and im quite liberal as you can see). I've mentioned several times that I want it for select sites, if you want to make sex jokes etc. then take it to websites made for it or people who you are sure won't be offended.
Dude, people use an alias to be WHO they are.
Look at the example you used. Podcasting is actually something I would see (as an employer) as useful. Podcasts serve as an excellent medium to pass on and garner information on any number of topics, this is insanely useful depending on your sector, and actually would impress an employer. Tell them your into WoW next time and try to sell how raiding increases productivity. It would change your results drastically.
And seeing bnet 2.0 as a social networking thing is crap. Those devices are used mainly to keep in contact with friends, classmates, co workers, etc... Usually, the people you add are people who are your friends or at least people who have a vague understanding on who you are. In this case however, you don't have the option of the social networking aspect, its being thrust at you. To me, this whole RealID concept from blizard, is essentially telling me I don't know how to make my own friends. As such, I should act to who I am (and anyone should act on who they are) to meet others as to befriend them.
RealID won't change anything. I can only see it being worse or staying the same. People just have to recognize that the internet is a place where people come to be themselves, and stop taking it so seriously. I do appreciate where you are coming from, but there are far to many cons that go along with this standard.
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On July 10 2010 03:55 Chairman Ray wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2010 03:50 Mecha_cl wrote:On July 10 2010 03:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
I think you missed the mark again Mecha.
As Ray said in his first post. Everyone is always hiding behind masks in real life. You have to act a certain way, or say certain things to progress farther down lifes track. However in the presence of your friends you can be a completely different person. The internet operates in a very similar fashion to your friends in the regards of this:
You can be who you are, without being judged for it.
Who cares if magicwander doesn't like your random sex joke, because 10 other people did. Taking away someones alias and forcing them to use their name means they have to act online like they would if they were at work.
To give you a general example. My boss used to be part owner of a nightclub in town. His first step when he got a new resume was to search them on facebook to see their friend count and see what their interests were. He would then choose to call back based on what he saw there.
This is a minor example of what people do, but employer's are more and more researching potential hires by googling them or the like to see more of who they are.
RealID doesn't help any longterm problem, it just makes peoples lives marginally worse by narrowing the scope in which they can be themselves. While I respect you're opinion (and experience) I've found different, nobody (including employers) have ever judged me based on what I do, in fact, 2 interviews ago I can recall the manager asking what I like to do, I immediately said 'Gaming, Cricket and Podcasting' instantly, he didn't really understand so I spent 5 minutes explaining exactly what podcasts are and how they differ from what he knows. I ended up getting the job because the Manager instantly realised I can basically sell anything that i'd need to in the store (commission work you see). I know what you mean about the personalities differing from your name, but I believe that if you're using utilities such as Bnet 2.0 that is linked with social networking, you shouldn't have a free pass to be asse's to other people without feeling bad because they'll never know anything more than your username, at least you think twice (Even i do, and im quite liberal as you can see). I've mentioned several times that I want it for select sites, if you want to make sex jokes etc. then take it to websites made for it or people who you are sure won't be offended. In order to prove your employer argument, you have to prove that it is the case for 100% of people. Then you have to prove how people giving the option to tell their employers that they play video games isn't enough, that information has to be forcefully revealed online. This entire issue isn't about trolling vs no trolling. It's about method A vs method B for stopping trolling. Why are conventional methods to stopping trolling so ineffective and revealing personal information more effective?
I haven't seen Blizzard do/suggest/indicate doing anything besides RealID to change to forum rules, when they come up with a better solution and tell me, because i'll eat my words and cry tears of happiness when they do something productive to their community that doesn't increase sales by X% when Y MMO comes out that holds competition.
It is about trolling vs trolling since Blizzard said it was when they released it.
My point is (and i don't expect this to change other peoples opinions, since I'm some guy on the internet on the other side of the world telling you this, is that people need to learn to approach the blizzard community as less of a free space to dump shit on other people.
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On July 10 2010 04:01 Mecha_cl wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2010 03:55 Chairman Ray wrote:On July 10 2010 03:50 Mecha_cl wrote:On July 10 2010 03:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
I think you missed the mark again Mecha.
As Ray said in his first post. Everyone is always hiding behind masks in real life. You have to act a certain way, or say certain things to progress farther down lifes track. However in the presence of your friends you can be a completely different person. The internet operates in a very similar fashion to your friends in the regards of this:
You can be who you are, without being judged for it.
Who cares if magicwander doesn't like your random sex joke, because 10 other people did. Taking away someones alias and forcing them to use their name means they have to act online like they would if they were at work.
To give you a general example. My boss used to be part owner of a nightclub in town. His first step when he got a new resume was to search them on facebook to see their friend count and see what their interests were. He would then choose to call back based on what he saw there.
This is a minor example of what people do, but employer's are more and more researching potential hires by googling them or the like to see more of who they are.
RealID doesn't help any longterm problem, it just makes peoples lives marginally worse by narrowing the scope in which they can be themselves. While I respect you're opinion (and experience) I've found different, nobody (including employers) have ever judged me based on what I do, in fact, 2 interviews ago I can recall the manager asking what I like to do, I immediately said 'Gaming, Cricket and Podcasting' instantly, he didn't really understand so I spent 5 minutes explaining exactly what podcasts are and how they differ from what he knows. I ended up getting the job because the Manager instantly realised I can basically sell anything that i'd need to in the store (commission work you see). I know what you mean about the personalities differing from your name, but I believe that if you're using utilities such as Bnet 2.0 that is linked with social networking, you shouldn't have a free pass to be asse's to other people without feeling bad because they'll never know anything more than your username, at least you think twice (Even i do, and im quite liberal as you can see). I've mentioned several times that I want it for select sites, if you want to make sex jokes etc. then take it to websites made for it or people who you are sure won't be offended. In order to prove your employer argument, you have to prove that it is the case for 100% of people. Then you have to prove how people giving the option to tell their employers that they play video games isn't enough, that information has to be forcefully revealed online. This entire issue isn't about trolling vs no trolling. It's about method A vs method B for stopping trolling. Why are conventional methods to stopping trolling so ineffective and revealing personal information more effective? I haven't seen Blizzard do/suggest/indicate doing anything besides RealID to change to forum rules, when they come up with a better solution and tell me, because i'll eat my words and cry tears of happiness when they do something productive to their community that doesn't increase sales by X% when Y MMO comes out that holds competition. It is about trolling vs trolling since Blizzard said it was when they released it. My point is (and i don't expect this to change other peoples opinions, since I'm some guy on the internet on the other side of the world telling you this, is that people need to learn to approach the blizzard community as less of a free space to dump shit on other people.
I will totally agree on the bolded part. I don't think realID is the way. I think a marginally better forum layout, combined with mods dedicated to making it a better place would help a large amount. Take TL mods for instance. All our mods seem to relatively care about the quality of the forums. If you could translate that over to blizz mods, things would most likely improve for the better.
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On July 10 2010 04:00 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2010 03:50 Mecha_cl wrote:On July 10 2010 03:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
I think you missed the mark again Mecha.
As Ray said in his first post. Everyone is always hiding behind masks in real life. You have to act a certain way, or say certain things to progress farther down lifes track. However in the presence of your friends you can be a completely different person. The internet operates in a very similar fashion to your friends in the regards of this:
You can be who you are, without being judged for it.
Who cares if magicwander doesn't like your random sex joke, because 10 other people did. Taking away someones alias and forcing them to use their name means they have to act online like they would if they were at work.
To give you a general example. My boss used to be part owner of a nightclub in town. His first step when he got a new resume was to search them on facebook to see their friend count and see what their interests were. He would then choose to call back based on what he saw there.
This is a minor example of what people do, but employer's are more and more researching potential hires by googling them or the like to see more of who they are.
RealID doesn't help any longterm problem, it just makes peoples lives marginally worse by narrowing the scope in which they can be themselves. EDIT: I want to make it clear i'm not attacking you, i'm just mentioning before hand that I at least admit to being slightly bias against you. While I respect you're opinion (and experience) I've found different, nobody (including employers) have ever judged me based on what I do, in fact, 2 interviews ago I can recall the manager asking what I like to do, I immediately said 'Gaming, Cricket and Podcasting' instantly, he didn't really understand so I spent 5 minutes explaining exactly what podcasts are and how they differ from what he knows. I ended up getting the job because the Manager instantly realised I can basically sell anything that i'd need to in the store (commission work you see). I know what you mean about the personalities differing from your name, but I believe that if you're using utilities such as Bnet 2.0 that is linked with social networking, you shouldn't have a free pass to be asse's to other people without feeling bad because they'll never know anything more than your username, at least you think twice (Even i do, and im quite liberal as you can see). I've mentioned several times that I want it for select sites, if you want to make sex jokes etc. then take it to websites made for it or people who you are sure won't be offended. Dude, people use an alias to be WHO they are. Look at the example you used. Podcasting is actually something I would see (as an employer) as useful. Podcasts serve as an excellent medium to pass on and garner information on any number of topics, this is insanely useful depending on your sector, and actually would impress an employer. Tell them your into WoW next time and try to sell how raiding increases productivity. It would change your results drastically. And seeing bnet 2.0 as a social networking thing is crap. Those devices are used mainly to keep in contact with friends, classmates, co workers, etc... Usually, the people you add are people who are your friends or at least people who have a vague understanding on who you are. In this case however, you don't have the option of the social networking aspect, its being thrust at you. To me, this whole RealID concept from blizard, is essentially telling me I don't know how to make my own friends. As such, I should act to who I am (and anyone should act on who they are) to meet others as to befriend them. RealID won't change anything. I can only see it being worse or staying the same. People just have to recognize that the internet is a place where people come to be themselves, and stop taking it so seriously. I do appreciate where you are coming from, but there are far to many cons that go along with this standard.
Before I even finish reading your post I recall you and some guy got in an IRC fight that was eventually blogged, so I know you're the type of guy who hides behind his keyboard. I remember names as best I can, and you stick out. This is a good example of what I believe should happen.
Actually, I scored a voluntary spot help organising a gig over 10 other people because when they asked what I had done before I said 'I've organised 40 man WoW raids, which basically means I 39 people what to do, they have no motivation other than their own selfish greed for pixels, I have to make them work as a term without bribing with anything more than a chance at getting something non existant'.
Um... how is something not social networking AND used to keep in touch with old friends LOL.
My best friends all have facebook, and even vague other people. Its detrimental if you have a social life and not social networking.
If RealID would change nothing, then why is there such an uproar?
I may be hard on you, but thats because I know both your name and you challenged me (which i encourage)
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On July 10 2010 04:05 Mecha_cl wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2010 04:00 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On July 10 2010 03:50 Mecha_cl wrote:On July 10 2010 03:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
I think you missed the mark again Mecha.
As Ray said in his first post. Everyone is always hiding behind masks in real life. You have to act a certain way, or say certain things to progress farther down lifes track. However in the presence of your friends you can be a completely different person. The internet operates in a very similar fashion to your friends in the regards of this:
You can be who you are, without being judged for it.
Who cares if magicwander doesn't like your random sex joke, because 10 other people did. Taking away someones alias and forcing them to use their name means they have to act online like they would if they were at work.
To give you a general example. My boss used to be part owner of a nightclub in town. His first step when he got a new resume was to search them on facebook to see their friend count and see what their interests were. He would then choose to call back based on what he saw there.
This is a minor example of what people do, but employer's are more and more researching potential hires by googling them or the like to see more of who they are.
RealID doesn't help any longterm problem, it just makes peoples lives marginally worse by narrowing the scope in which they can be themselves. While I respect you're opinion (and experience) I've found different, nobody (including employers) have ever judged me based on what I do, in fact, 2 interviews ago I can recall the manager asking what I like to do, I immediately said 'Gaming, Cricket and Podcasting' instantly, he didn't really understand so I spent 5 minutes explaining exactly what podcasts are and how they differ from what he knows. I ended up getting the job because the Manager instantly realised I can basically sell anything that i'd need to in the store (commission work you see). I know what you mean about the personalities differing from your name, but I believe that if you're using utilities such as Bnet 2.0 that is linked with social networking, you shouldn't have a free pass to be asse's to other people without feeling bad because they'll never know anything more than your username, at least you think twice (Even i do, and im quite liberal as you can see). I've mentioned several times that I want it for select sites, if you want to make sex jokes etc. then take it to websites made for it or people who you are sure won't be offended. Dude, people use an alias to be WHO they are. Look at the example you used. Podcasting is actually something I would see (as an employer) as useful. Podcasts serve as an excellent medium to pass on and garner information on any number of topics, this is insanely useful depending on your sector, and actually would impress an employer. Tell them your into WoW next time and try to sell how raiding increases productivity. It would change your results drastically. And seeing bnet 2.0 as a social networking thing is crap. Those devices are used mainly to keep in contact with friends, classmates, co workers, etc... Usually, the people you add are people who are your friends or at least people who have a vague understanding on who you are. In this case however, you don't have the option of the social networking aspect, its being thrust at you. To me, this whole RealID concept from blizard, is essentially telling me I don't know how to make my own friends. As such, I should act to who I am (and anyone should act on who they are) to meet others as to befriend them. RealID won't change anything. I can only see it being worse or staying the same. People just have to recognize that the internet is a place where people come to be themselves, and stop taking it so seriously. I do appreciate where you are coming from, but there are far to many cons that go along with this standard. Before I even finish reading your post I recall you and some guy got in an IRC fight that was eventually blogged, so I know you're the type of guy who hides behind his keyboard. I remember names as best I can, and you stick out. This is a good example of what I believe should happen. Actually, I scored a voluntary spot help organising a gig over 10 other people because when they asked what I had done before I said 'I've organised 40 man WoW raids, which basically means I 39 people what to do, they have no motivation other than their own selfish greed for pixels, I have to make them work as a term without bribing with anything more than a chance at getting something non existant'. Um... how is something not social networking AND used to keep in touch with old friends LOL. My best friends all have facebook, and even vague other people. Its detrimental if you have a social life and not social networking. If RealID would change nothing, then why is there such an uproar? I may be hard on you, but thats because I know both your name and you challenged me (which i encourage)
Surprisingly I don't just hide behind my keyboard. Do a quick search on TL and you will find my name is posted in a few spots, as is the general area I live in. I am who I am and make no attempt to be otherwise. You did recall correctly on that blog however.
I am glad to hear of your success with using gaming as a way to get work (volunteer work is still work). However that is not the norm quite yet.
I may have mistyped my point. Social networking is used to keep in contact, however in the case of bnet 2.0, it is not like people are joining to be on a social network, they are joining to play a game. Having something you don't neccesarily want there shoved down your throat is eh.
RealID wouldn't improve anything, but it could make things worse. Alot of people have used the example of employment, or female gamers being exposed as well, female gamers. There are loads of issues that can come up if suddenly your name is exposed to a large group of people who you don't know or trust.
I appreciate the debate, I honestly think the best debates, or arguments, whatever you want to call it come from people with heated points of view. Hell, we have all been civil thus far as well, kudos to us!
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On July 10 2010 03:08 Mecha_cl wrote:People seem to have this idea of hiding gaming history from future employers, but why? So what if you played wow for 2 years? Your boss thinks your a nerd, i don't lie when people ask me about that in real life since i have enough sense to pick my friends (who understand if it isn't their thing). People you meet in real life are alot more genuine (especially employers) than you think, it may help you get the job. This may not be an example for RealID, but imagine if your employer was like this guy's: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=134229Pretty sure you'd instantly have a job. Its a longshot, I've worked for around about 5 different places so far in my lifetime, and i can't think of one employer who would judge me on that and I've worked at MacDonalds and other similar places.
Am I missing something here? Is MacDonalds some corporation of note in Australia that I'm not aware of? Or were you referring to the fast food chain McDonalds? If you're referring to McDonalds and working there and for similar places ... that's not qutie the jobs that would care about gaming. The places that would care are prestigious jobs (like doctors/lawyers), jobs in public view (like politicians/police/teachers), or professional jobs for just about any company. There is a stigma about gaming that can can be cast unfavorably on you in such positions. It probably won't cost you a job that you apply for, but if you're equally as qualified as someone they could go in that direction.
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On July 10 2010 04:12 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2010 04:05 Mecha_cl wrote:On July 10 2010 04:00 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On July 10 2010 03:50 Mecha_cl wrote:On July 10 2010 03:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
I think you missed the mark again Mecha.
As Ray said in his first post. Everyone is always hiding behind masks in real life. You have to act a certain way, or say certain things to progress farther down lifes track. However in the presence of your friends you can be a completely different person. The internet operates in a very similar fashion to your friends in the regards of this:
You can be who you are, without being judged for it.
Who cares if magicwander doesn't like your random sex joke, because 10 other people did. Taking away someones alias and forcing them to use their name means they have to act online like they would if they were at work.
To give you a general example. My boss used to be part owner of a nightclub in town. His first step when he got a new resume was to search them on facebook to see their friend count and see what their interests were. He would then choose to call back based on what he saw there.
This is a minor example of what people do, but employer's are more and more researching potential hires by googling them or the like to see more of who they are.
RealID doesn't help any longterm problem, it just makes peoples lives marginally worse by narrowing the scope in which they can be themselves. While I respect you're opinion (and experience) I've found different, nobody (including employers) have ever judged me based on what I do, in fact, 2 interviews ago I can recall the manager asking what I like to do, I immediately said 'Gaming, Cricket and Podcasting' instantly, he didn't really understand so I spent 5 minutes explaining exactly what podcasts are and how they differ from what he knows. I ended up getting the job because the Manager instantly realised I can basically sell anything that i'd need to in the store (commission work you see). I know what you mean about the personalities differing from your name, but I believe that if you're using utilities such as Bnet 2.0 that is linked with social networking, you shouldn't have a free pass to be asse's to other people without feeling bad because they'll never know anything more than your username, at least you think twice (Even i do, and im quite liberal as you can see). I've mentioned several times that I want it for select sites, if you want to make sex jokes etc. then take it to websites made for it or people who you are sure won't be offended. Dude, people use an alias to be WHO they are. Look at the example you used. Podcasting is actually something I would see (as an employer) as useful. Podcasts serve as an excellent medium to pass on and garner information on any number of topics, this is insanely useful depending on your sector, and actually would impress an employer. Tell them your into WoW next time and try to sell how raiding increases productivity. It would change your results drastically. And seeing bnet 2.0 as a social networking thing is crap. Those devices are used mainly to keep in contact with friends, classmates, co workers, etc... Usually, the people you add are people who are your friends or at least people who have a vague understanding on who you are. In this case however, you don't have the option of the social networking aspect, its being thrust at you. To me, this whole RealID concept from blizard, is essentially telling me I don't know how to make my own friends. As such, I should act to who I am (and anyone should act on who they are) to meet others as to befriend them. RealID won't change anything. I can only see it being worse or staying the same. People just have to recognize that the internet is a place where people come to be themselves, and stop taking it so seriously. I do appreciate where you are coming from, but there are far to many cons that go along with this standard. Before I even finish reading your post I recall you and some guy got in an IRC fight that was eventually blogged, so I know you're the type of guy who hides behind his keyboard. I remember names as best I can, and you stick out. This is a good example of what I believe should happen. Actually, I scored a voluntary spot help organising a gig over 10 other people because when they asked what I had done before I said 'I've organised 40 man WoW raids, which basically means I 39 people what to do, they have no motivation other than their own selfish greed for pixels, I have to make them work as a term without bribing with anything more than a chance at getting something non existant'. Um... how is something not social networking AND used to keep in touch with old friends LOL. My best friends all have facebook, and even vague other people. Its detrimental if you have a social life and not social networking. If RealID would change nothing, then why is there such an uproar? I may be hard on you, but thats because I know both your name and you challenged me (which i encourage) Surprisingly I don't just hide behind my keyboard. Do a quick search on TL and you will find my name is posted in a few spots, as is the general area I live in. I am who I am and make no attempt to be otherwise. You did recall correctly on that blog however. I am glad to hear of your success with using gaming as a way to get work (volunteer work is still work). However that is not the norm quite yet. I may have mistyped my point. Social networking is used to keep in contact, however in the case of bnet 2.0, it is not like people are joining to be on a social network, they are joining to play a game. Having something you don't neccesarily want there shoved down your throat is eh. RealID wouldn't improve anything, but it could make things worse. Alot of people have used the example of employment, or female gamers being exposed as well, female gamers. There are loads of issues that can come up if suddenly your name is exposed to a large group of people who you don't know or trust. I appreciate the debate, I honestly think the best debates, or arguments, whatever you want to call it come from people with heated points of view. Hell, we have all been civil thus far as well, kudos to us!
Thats fine, I did after I posted, thats fine but I still think I should have at least mentioned it rather than hating on you and just saying 'you're argument is invalid' like some people do.
I know what you mean about RealID, and thats why I don't think Social Networking and Sc2 goes hand in hand, but I believe it does with WoW where as a general rule the playerbase does partake in facebook (I've even joined groups for guilds on facebook because they made me so I could -.- yeah i know).
I appreciate the debate as well, and I should probably sleep, its 5am over here and I think i'm done laddering!
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EPT
