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On June 21 2010 11:50 Myrmidon wrote:There's always a debate over how much objective measurements of audio quality correlate with the subjective listening experience, but here is an RMAA test comparison of your onboard audio chip with a couple of respected Asus sound cards (the cheaper DX is around $80): http://hothardware.com/Reviews/ASUS-Xonar-DX-PCI-Express-71-Audio-Card/?page=4edit: I use the X-Fi Surround 5.1 USB sound card, though I don't particularly recommend it and don't use any of Creative's special processing effects. For $50 it's certainly way way better than my laptop Conexant onboard audio with my Klipsch Custom-2 earphones.
I'm not sure how to interpretate those test results, but I'm assuming the Xonar DX is the best one from those results?
NonY seems to have the same card and the price isn't too bad, anyone else that has any experience with the Xonar DX?
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I have a creative x-fi and a asus xonar dx and there are two reasons why the creative is gathering dust somewhere.
1) Creative cards can and do cause irq conflicts with other hardware, typically usb, causing games to crash and/or not load at all. Xonar cards do not have this issue, so I really had no choice anyway.
2) The sound from the Xonar DX seems cleaner in the mid-range and generally bigger and fuller then the Creative x-fi, which is not a bad soundcard ...when it works. The sound also seems denser and tighter, though I guess that is only preset equalizer stuff(?)
FYI my experience is through a logitech z4 2.1 system
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The way I see it there's only two good soundcard makers right now:
Asus(with their xonar lineup)
and
Auzentech.(check out the X-fi prelude)
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On June 21 2010 23:21 gillon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2010 11:50 Myrmidon wrote:There's always a debate over how much objective measurements of audio quality correlate with the subjective listening experience, but here is an RMAA test comparison of your onboard audio chip with a couple of respected Asus sound cards (the cheaper DX is around $80): http://hothardware.com/Reviews/ASUS-Xonar-DX-PCI-Express-71-Audio-Card/?page=4edit: I use the X-Fi Surround 5.1 USB sound card, though I don't particularly recommend it and don't use any of Creative's special processing effects. For $50 it's certainly way way better than my laptop Conexant onboard audio with my Klipsch Custom-2 earphones. I'm not sure how to interpretate those test results, but I'm assuming the Xonar DX is the best one from those results? NonY seems to have the same card and the price isn't too bad, anyone else that has any experience with the Xonar DX?
Lower values are better, except for the dynamic range. These are signal metrics from live output/input testing of the devices, and most of them (noise, intermodulation distortion, harmonic distortion, etc.) represent some sort of audio infidelity. edit: to answer your question directly, the newer, smaller, and less expensive DX was about the same as the D2, while both were way better than the Realtek ALC888, which the top-end integrated audio chipset you have.
I found a wiki article that covers what they mean, in case you're interested.
After a certain point, you have to expect that your headphones are the weak link and not the sound card, so I would definitely not go for the highest-end product. I don't have a Xonar DX, but a lot of people seem to like it, and it has the best audio metrics of any card in its price range.
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not worth getting a soundcard unless you have good headphones. also its not worth getting a soundcard if you have speakers that have optical inputs.
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On board is typically just fine these days. Past a certain bit rate human ears cant pick up many differences or many at all anyway.
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Well, I think I'll just get a Xonar DX; good reviews, people seem to like, quite a fair price.
In the end, I'll never know if the difference is worth it for me without actually buying it and trying. 
Thanks for all the input, guys.
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I've used my motherboard's onboard sound, an Auzentech x-raider 7.1 and my hd 4850's sound.
The onboard sound caused EMI interferance, while the 4850 and soundcard got rid of this.
But that's about the only difference I could hear between any of the devices. Right now I'm using my gpu's sound connected with an hdmi cable to my reciever, because for some reason the S/PDIF on the Auzentech soundcard won't output sound. That could probably be fixed with a reformat, since the issue is most likely with drivers conflicting.
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As a follow up question; when installing a soundcard I've heard it's sometimes needed to disable the onboard sound from the BIOS. Should I do this when I get my Xonar?
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These stats are from the datasheet of the ALC888 chip itself. I took a look at the datasheet, and it also quotes a relatively poor total harmonic distortion+noise for headphone amp out (32 ohms--the PC-360 in question is 50 ohms) at -78 dB and power supply rejection at -40 dB. Of course, these stats are produced from testing in ideal conditions in the lab. The power supply rejection in practice usually is a function of frequency, and it was not quoted as such on the spec sheet. In reality, maybe it's worse than -40 dB somewhere in 20-20000 Hz.
Depending on the implementation of the chip with other parts on the motherboard, there may be a lot of real-world degradation. Mostly, the problem comes from picking up EMI from a lot of close-by IO on the motherboard as others have stated. Motherboard power supply voltages are often very noisy despite their voltage regulation, and the voltages from the power supplies themselves also vary significantly. Discrete sound cards have their own power filtering implementations which further reduce noise on the rail voltages.
side note: The Xonar DX in question actually uses a floppy drive power connection straight from the PSU in an attempt to get cleaner power, in addition to power gotten from the motherboard through the PCI-E connection.
The link I posted above tested the ALC888 on the MSI K9A2 Platinum (790 FX) motherboard. Maybe Gigabyte's board is much better in this regard.
In any case, it really is difficult to say what differences will be audible to different people, and how good the ALC888 will hold up in practice. I concur that it might actually be a waste in the end, but I wouldn't assume that from the start.
On June 22 2010 05:13 Zilver wrote:
I've used my motherboard's onboard sound, an Auzentech x-raider 7.1 and my hd 4850's sound.
The onboard sound caused EMI interferance, while the 4850 and soundcard got rid of this.
But that's about the only difference I could hear between any of the devices. Right now I'm using my gpu's sound connected with an hdmi cable to my reciever, because for some reason the S/PDIF on the Auzentech soundcard won't output sound. That could probably be fixed with a reformat, since the issue is most likely with drivers conflicting.
Just out of curiousity, but you had the motherboard do analog out to your receiver and heard the interference then? If you have a receiver, it doesn't matter what device is outputting to it as long as it's digital out. I guess your motherboard doesn't have digital out?
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EPT
