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Boblion
France8043 Posts
I mean how can you be sure that the guy isn't trolling ? I know that some people are genuinely stupid but a good troll will try to look like them to be even more effective. For people with 500+ posts who have an history it is quite easy to know if they are serious/joking/trolling but with the afflux of new members it is really hard to tell... especially with the multi account trend. | ||
micronesia
United States24723 Posts
... but apparently he was serious :/ | ||
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Insidio5
United States1 Post
Nvm, i get it now. "Off-topic and provocative post"... kinda like this one. =) | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
On June 15 2010 15:34 Boblion wrote: I still don't get how you make the difference between someone having ridiculous opinions and a troll. I mean how can you be sure that the guy isn't trolling ? I know that some people are genuinely stupid but a good troll will try to look like them to be even more effective. For people with 500+ posts who have an history it is quite easy to know if they are serious/joking/trolling but with the afflux of new members it is really hard to tell... especially with the multi account trend. Ideally you try not to reply to posts that are either stupid or provocative. One of the hardest lessons to learn on the internet  From the day you're born you're told to respect other people opinions and engage in civilized discussion with them. All through school a part of your grade is decided by your participation. Then you learn in the real world that it's just not worth it. And so, like me, you might choose to mock people subtly anytime you don't respect what they're saying (practically trolling, since they don't realise it), or just plain give up.Really, the only reason to respond to someone you think is stupid is to make yourself feel superior. It's kind of pitiful, when I think about it. You never actually make the person you're talking to smarter. They do that on their own in the coming months of budding maturity. | ||
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micronesia
United States24723 Posts
On June 16 2010 08:11 Chef wrote: Ideally you try not to reply to posts that are either stupid or provocative. One of the hardest lessons to learn on the internet From the day you're born you're told to respect other people opinions and engage in civilized discussion with them. All through school a part of your grade is decided by your participation. Then you learn in the real world that it's just not worth it. And so, like me, you might choose to mock people subtly anytime you don't respect what they're saying (practically trolling, since they don't realise it), or just plain give up.Really, the only reason to respond to someone you think is stupid is to make yourself feel superior. It's kind of pitiful, when I think about it. You never actually make the person you're talking to smarter. They do that on their own in the coming months of budding maturity. Wow that's a grim outlook you have there haha... at the very least you can help people who say 'dumb' things... obviously just arguing and then flaming each other isn't productive but not everyone is a lost cause either. You can help people to understand stuff sometimes. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
Imagine a stranger who believes in homeopathy. Imagine arguing with that person. The conversation almost certainly ends with 'well you do what you do, and I'll do what I do.' ie: waste of time. You could try imagining a close friend who believes in homeopathy, but those usually only exist if you believe in it too. I kind of find it funny when people imagine a close friend who is like the opposite of them, and that they have spurred debates yet can still be great friends. I call these people delusional. | ||
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dervetter
Germany17 Posts
If it was not for the witnessed bans I would still be thinking the whole thread was a troll. Seriously, I feel like you all might have been joking and I just took the bait big time. The whole approach does not make any sense at all as I will try to show. Sorry about the mere size of the post, but other people trying to state my point have been banned. So I´d like to make sure to make it myself. Here´s what happened: My first angle was: 1. The misuse of the word itself. Troll deriving from the rpg class instead of the fishing technique. Troll meaning the post, not the person trolling. There is absolutely no misuse (any more. or at least soon enough). As Nicolbolas pointed out language evolves. + Show Spoiler + On June 12 2010 11:51 NicolBolas wrote: That's just how language works. There was a point in time when "bad" meant "good." For some reason nowadays, people say "sick" when they mean something went well or is good. It's total nonsense, but languages change and evolve. Languages are defined by how a word gets used, not by dictionaries. If the masses feel the word originated from WoW-beings and have no clue about the true origin this does ironically make their use of the word right as soon as the misuses prevail. The mere convenience of an Rpg-Troll also being a nasty being you dislike and by some magic coincidence consisting of the same letters the usage of the word is just doomed to shift in this way. + Show Spoiler + No, wait! I think it´s happening already: http://kb.iu.edu/data/afhc.html The term can also refer to someone making such a posting ("a troll") or to the action ("trolling", "to troll"). But on the other hand their post is roughly 2 weeks old and might be corrected soon. But even if the creator of the thread just made a mistake on a university site this by itself points to the shift being in progress. So if your mission is saving the dictionary. 0/10, but gl anyways. My next thought was: 2. Troll posts DO interfere with constructive forum discussion in a very annoying way. Stupid Fish feed Trolls (oops, used it wrong but somehow it feels natural already) and therefore a pre-emptive strike against all fish is a fine idea to get rid of the Trolls. I am not even commenting on that so lets get to: 3. Yet more disturbing are false accusations. Since there is no counter-argument to "I just think You are not being honest or serious" there is no way of a fertile discussion. Besides it just makes me sick. And by that i mean the bad "sick", not the "Whoa, I just saw boxer micro for the first time - sick shit"-sick. Now we get to the point. This is it, right? The core of all this anger. But anger leads to hate. And hate leads to suffering. So let us follow just one chain of thought: Situation A: Someone posts an obvious troll. Every discussion about trolling suggests the following solution: "Just ignore the bugger. Getting you mad/annoyed/overly-logically-responding is just what he wants. Most constructive is to ignore and live in peace happily everafter" Think I might be able to find a good quote: + Show Spoiler + On June 10 2010 18:16 intrigue wrote: What does this mean? if you call someone a troll because you've had a heated argument with them, that means you just got all mad and fussed up by someone who did it just to entertain themselves, and that just makes you fucking stupid. think about what happens to fish after they are trolled! What do we do? bad trolls are very obvious, so calling them trolls is obnoxious like that overeager kid in the front row of class. ignore them. good trolls are harder to tell apart, but as long as you stay calm and don't take yourself too seriously (aka not biting their bait) you will survive unscathed. Situation B: Person1 posts an honest post. Person2 has a so different opinion that the whole post just seems counter-logical, dishonest and/or straightforward trolling to him. Since he can not resist he states something like "lol, are you kidding me?" or (behold! now he uses the t-word) "you are trolling, right?" If i follow Your logic Person2 will receive a ban regardless of the possibility Person1 was in fact trolling? Did i get that right? Does he also get banned when he says "r u kidding me?" or does he have to use the t-word? Let us assume I was Person1 in that situation (and did not troll him): - Ok, here is someone I will have a long time arguing with if I start to. Since I want to state my point I argue for a long long time and after an eternity I realize noone else is following my thread since for 3 pages all that was said was "I do"-"No You dont"-"Yes I do"- ... 0/10 - Or I could whine because I am just pissed off by the inflationary use of the word trolling lately. I am sick of the countless discussions being in vain because of such stupid accusations. Whoa, finally someone is banning these annoying fags. 0/10 - OR i could remember the solution to Situation A, GROW SOME BALLS AND JUST IGNORE THE POST and continue the discussion with the rest of the community. 9/10 (-1 from the ego department) Was this the Philosopher´s stone?  I do not see any counterargument, but feel free to enlighten me! ***** Now some questions directly 4 Intrigue: On what basis besides "because I can" do you ban these people? - Because it is in the rules? Searching the forum for "forum rules" (titles only, all forums) results in exactly 3 topics. Can not find anything in there. - Because they make the forum annoying and unusable? I would much rather take the risk of some false accusations wich can easily be ignored than abandon free speech. It is a forum ffs. free speech is kinda the point. This is also the point why the whole banning issue annoys me to the point of writing this. Switching the angle a little I could instead have written a good text about Trolling vs Terrorism and sold it to a newspaper. - Because you are just too annoyed by troll posts and their effect on the forum? Then friggin aim for the whaler, not the fish (y, i know, mammal) or the trimaran! Seriously, if we are supposed to ignore troll posts for the greater good it might also be a good idea to ignore troll-accusing-posts for the same reason. Otherwise You are handing out freebies to all them actual trolls that might be coming. - Or is it seriously because you are just annoyed by some people mis-guessing the origin of the word and using it in the not-yet-approved manner? Can not actually follow. Nope, doesn´t work. Flame them all you want but throwing bans like candy seems kinda abusive. ***** Gratz to anyone who cared to make it this far. Now I am really curious whether I get banned or not. Just to make that clear: No, I am not trolling. And if my feeling is right and this is just some crazy "lets have some fun because these uneducated bastards get on our nerves"-thang please solve the mistery, I am getting conspiracy hunches by now. And before I forget it: Even if it is just fun stop it anyway. It might be Your playground but this senceless censorship is ++ un-good. | ||
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MangoTango
United States3670 Posts
http://regretfulmorning.com/2010/04/the-4-levels-of-internet-trolling/ /contributing to conversation | ||
zatic
Zurich15353 Posts
- Because you are just too annoyed by troll posts and their effect on the forum? No, because we absolutely love genuine good trolling. And this forum has had its share. And employs some of the best trolls on the internet on staff. They naturally don't like it when their art is wrongfully attributed to any generic post someone didn't agree with. Other than that, you may have searched for forum rules, you certainly didn't read them though, as shown by your reference to Free Speech and the martyr attitude towards the end of your post. | ||
intrigue
Washington, D.C9934 Posts
if you find any ban you think is unjust, you can discuss it here. until then, implying that i ban for fun is just a baseless attack on me, not on TL's moderation. also, from how self-righteous and entitled you sound it is obvious you haven't read this. get over your martyr attitude, nobody gets banned for intelligently and civilly stating an opinion. look on the last page for an example of what does get someone banned. edit: it's not like i'm randomly blanket banning the word entirely. i expressly state that. if it's not used in an outright stupid manner, i could not care less. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32083 Posts
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
But you wiki troll but not http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet) ... That's a more thorough education. cmon... CMON. I don't see the big deal. It's only words. Words are sooo overrated. I mean, imagine cyberspace without words. Wowuuu...speechless | ||
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dervetter
Germany17 Posts
Zatic/Intrigue: I did read the forum rules, but did not follow the "your first post should be in here"-advise. It was some time ago and this is not the only forum. Actually felt kinda strange not finding forum rules. A simple thread named "forum rules" linking to it would help i guess. Had I found them the whole post would´ve been much shorter. Sorry if I sounded a little "jacking of in front of the mirror and sending myself flowers afterwards" or simply pissed you off. Until now I honestly had no clue what the bans were actually aiming at. Still kinda fuzzy but since You´re boss ... Still dont like the policy though. But the whole thing does not seem to be such a giant red rag to you as it appeared. I guess i was just overreacting on (perceived) overreacting. | ||
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TeXasLaWDoG
United States33 Posts
Stands for other than use it instead of " haha "cuz its Trendy...Apparently I just eciently seen people using the "troll" term like...the past year or 2? i never seen it used like 5 years ago... So obviously the OP is justified, I see People throwing that word around senselessly More as a Bully Tactic to people who dont even understand what it means either, I have never used the Word troll because it is trendy and i have a larger vocabulary of words at my disposal.. But yeah this is good info i never really understood what it meant "by internet chat" purposes I just assumed it was meant to bully people that dont have the same opinions, cuz thats the context i see it...As for the real definition it think it should stay at Sea and not on forums heh | ||
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Mykill
Canada3402 Posts
On June 10 2010 21:56 Patriot.dlk wrote: Read and I liked it. The most annoying is when someone is proven wrong or get no backup and turns to "I WAS TROLLING LOLO" sad but true >< nice blog post | ||
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poopiebutt
United States1 Post
Obviously it seems as if merely using the word "troll" incites anger. Under team liquid rules it should state "no starting fights/useless arguments" More should be done inorder to curve the whole "TROLLING" stupidity epidemic. Admins.... please get to work.. Deny all the trolls and those who abuse the word. | ||
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Brees
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
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Gulzt
Netherlands275 Posts
What to think of Leet, which according to the dictionary means: a yearly or half-yearly court of record that the lords of certain manors held in England. Well that sure has nothing to do with anything. @TexasLawDog Did you know that in Dutch "lol" literally means: "fun" ? :-) | ||
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wooozy
3813 Posts
On July 14 2010 04:53 poopiebutt wrote: You know i completely agree with this. Obviously it seems as if merely using the word "troll" incites anger. Under team liquid rules it should state "no starting fights/useless arguments" More should be done inorder to curve the whole "TROLLING" stupidity epidemic. Admins.... please get to work.. Deny all the trolls and those who abuse the word. no you're mad | ||
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