• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 09:34
CET 15:34
KST 23:34
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
[BSL23] RO16 Group Stage12Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top?2Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down23
StarCraft 2
General
Serral's getting trashed by New Catsle's Mind Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top? Liquibets sc2 season 30 No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon
Tourneys
RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 Tasteless Time Warp: SC Evo Showmatch (May 25) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament iNu's Battles #22 SC4ALL: II Venue Change Announcement!
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Starcraft 2 Advance [G] How to playtest arcade maps [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 551 Robotic Revival Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion [BSL23] RO16 Group Stage List of top players active on ShieldBattery screpdb: new Starcraft reporting tool [BW] Looking for Clan Thread!
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2v2v2v2 Tournament Stage 1: Community Poll [$1250] International ShieldBattery League Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Nuke strategy worked in K-League 2026-11-09 50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy)
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live!
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Trading/Investing Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Dating: How's your luck? European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The time I organised my…
AssyrianKing
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 12842 users

SC/SC2 Fans are spoiled

Blogs > iCCup.Raelcun
Post a Reply
Raelcun
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States3747 Posts
June 03 2010 11:02 GMT
#1
This is similar to my previous blog about people complaining about the camera man not showing enough stuff, and how they nitpick minor details yada yada. Today I'm going to talk about the quality of videos, here and now fans want the best quality picture they can get. If it's not HD or near HD they tend to just say well EFF this and move on, but let me take you back on a ride...

Way back in 2003 or 2004, vods were a rarity and much coveted things the most often we got news posts like these and Manifesto7 was a great man at writing them I appreciated and loved them because it was so difficult to track down VODs for events. But even then once they became more readily available or put onto youtube they were frequently so blurry or pixelated you could barely see the units but since that was all we had we dealt with it. The games were epic it was worth going through whatever to see or hear about them. Sometimes the battle reports came several days later when we already knew the results but we'd sit down with a snack and read on...


Quality like this was good for back then

Watching games live was unheard of at this point still you still hoped that a vod would be posted not too much later after the fact. Move on a few years and streams are a little more common but the quality is terrible, worse than the VODs which have improved at this point, but still to get to watch live we put up with it. They were unreliable and crashed frequently, to even see the list of streams on teamliquid for quite a while you needed a firefox addon which added a small "Streams" tab down near the Power Rank. This was buggy and didn't always work.

Now jump forward to today when 3-5 streams online at any given time on teamliquid on a slow night. There are super high quality streams available on youtube and livestream, but ustream has lag issues and livestream tends to crash. If you drop your stream quality to fix this people complain, if your stream lags people complain, if your stream drops people complain.

We have gone from days when people would sit for half an hour waiting for a stream to even start so they could watch the intros; to now if day[9] takes a 5 minute break on a big tournament he loses a thousand viewers. I'm sure this is nothing new but it annoys me that people will complain complain complain endlessly nothing is good enough, it always has to be better try thinking back what starcraft fans had to deal with to even see anything not even 3 years ago let along going back 7 or 8.

Stepping off my high horse in... three... two... one...

***
VTArlock
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1763 Posts
June 03 2010 11:10 GMT
#2
As much as I fully agree with you, because I myself was a broodwar player. I stayed up all night watching streams like gomtv, OSL,MSL in terrible quality from years ago but things change. With technological advancements the bar under which we see fit raises.

If anyone also remembers... back in the 90's we used to wait 5 minutes for a single web-page to load, this is not acceptable by any means anymore though. We ALL want instant gratification of a higher quality. As time goes on, this will only get worse rael, I'm sorry but thats just how things change over time.
Why?
ghen
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1356 Posts
June 03 2010 11:39 GMT
#3
I think the complaining is a good thing. It might not seem so at the time, but when the fans aren't happy the broadcasters will continue to strive to do better. And when one guy figures out how to squeeze that little extra quality out of 2MB/s then everyone else will hussle to keep up.

From a fan's point of view, constructive criticism forces the hand of broadcasters. The exodus of top shows from Livestream to Ustream is a direct consequence of this. With Ustream it seems like there is more freedom in terms of controlling a show's production. Especially if you buy the Producer Pro. As more shows leave livestream, they will have to start working on their servers and bandwidth for free shows. (paid livestream doesn't seem to have any issues) and the cycle continues.

Now of course, complaining over and over again during the show is just trolling and deserves a ban That's no way to support the service.. but some kids don't get it.
Sadistx
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
June 03 2010 11:40 GMT
#4
No, we're not spoiled. The technology has advanced a lot since 2001 and it's pretty ridiculous how some people think 320*240 with 300 kbit/s bitrate is watchable quality halfway into 2010.

The problem is it's expensive to keep up with technology and also time consuming to know how to do everything properly. People will always complain, yes, but complaining is how we get things to IMPROVE.

You're wrong again, just like your mech ZvT thread.
Butigroove
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Seychelles2061 Posts
June 03 2010 11:41 GMT
#5
I almost miss those days because there is seldom good livereporting available because of all the streams.
beach beers buds beezies b-b-b-baaanelings
Raelcun
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States3747 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-03 11:54:20
June 03 2010 11:53 GMT
#6
On June 03 2010 20:39 ghen wrote:
I think the complaining is a good thing. It might not seem so at the time, but when the fans aren't happy the broadcasters will continue to strive to do better. And when one guy figures out how to squeeze that little extra quality out of 2MB/s then everyone else will hussle to keep up.

From a fan's point of view, constructive criticism forces the hand of broadcasters. The exodus of top shows from Livestream to Ustream is a direct consequence of this. With Ustream it seems like there is more freedom in terms of controlling a show's production. Especially if you buy the Producer Pro. As more shows leave livestream, they will have to start working on their servers and bandwidth for free shows. (paid livestream doesn't seem to have any issues) and the cycle continues.

Now of course, complaining over and over again during the show is just trolling and deserves a ban That's no way to support the service.. but some kids don't get it.


Let me tell you first hand producer pro sucks.. horribly. We were considering staying on livestream and were even working out a deal where they would sponsor us in return for not having to pay for the premium stream until the point where they said they can't say the lag and the stream crashing would go away. THe conception that paid livestream doesn't have issues is rather false as they even went as far as to say Day9's stream crashed because and I quote "He had too many viewers" and saying that in fact their premium servers don't run on different servers than their free ones. Ustream means that you either have to go pro and deal with many many software issues and annoying features or have to deal with hardware workarounds to get your sound to work correctly. FMLE can work but is a royal pain in the arse and doesn't provide as consistant performance

With ustream many people who were able to stream on livestream because the procaster was such a nice all in one tool find out they can't cast on ustream because their sound card is sub par we've already lost 2-3 casters from our lineup because of this. So basically anyone wishing to stream is forced into picking... do we go to ustream where we won't crash everything is an uphill battle to get running at any decent quality (pay even more to run in HD on top of going pro) with many many hours offline of fine tuning for every cast and it lags randomly. Or do we stay with livestream where the quality is good it's easy to set up and run but it will crash consistantly to the point where sometimes the viewers will see 20% of any given game.

Yes there are some people with the magical setup of internet + computer who can provide amazing quality streams on ustream which are flawless and never crash but keep in mind most people don't get paid to stream and are limited heavily by their upload speed as many ISP try to limit the upload potential of a given user to prevent pirating. Personally my computer can handle streaming in ultra settings on maxe screen resolution but aforementioned ISP has limited my upload to almost unusable settings even after paying to upgrade it and refuses to fix the limited connectivity constantly denying that I have a problem at all.

Yes fans wanting more can be good to a point but when literally what they want is nearly impossible without paying extravagant amounts of money to an ISP for a custom business connection for a service you don't get paid for then it gets a little pesky.
SmiLeSE
Profile Joined February 2010
Sweden58 Posts
June 03 2010 12:11 GMT
#7
Great blog post, although it reminds me a bit of this python sketch.

However, I don't think that it "used to be worse" is a valid point to keep people from complaining. Without increasing demand, there is no incentive for the market to improve further, and as you mentioned, the services provided are far from perfect. I think the ability to be spoiled with a choice of streams not only directly makes it easier to find something you like, but forces the streamers to be good to get viewers.

In any case, an increasing amount of streams and streamers speaks volumes of where the foreign SC community has gotten, and the potential of growth in this great environment.
pshych0
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
274 Posts
June 03 2010 12:39 GMT
#8
5/5 epic
shit happens
apm66
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada943 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-03 13:26:30
June 03 2010 13:15 GMT
#9
We're not spoiled, it's technology that improves. You cannot compare today with 7-8 years ago. It's like saying "Starcraft 2 gamers are spoiled! Back then we had only 256mb ram, 15" CRT, ball mouse, 640x480!" Well, technology will always be improving.

Live online stream was like totally new back then, and it obviously had many flaws. Technology improves, and with improvements, people change, and, no matter what, people will always want things to be better and faster. As technology becomes more affordable, more reliable and faster, people become more impatient. We're not spoiled, technology has changed, and we changed with it. That's all.

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
TheAntZ
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Israel6248 Posts
June 03 2010 13:57 GMT
#10
good ol' raelcun, always finding complainers to complain about
43084 | Honeybadger: "So july, you're in the GSL finals. How do you feel?!" ~ July: "HUNGRY."
ghen
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1356 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-03 16:48:17
June 03 2010 16:47 GMT
#11
*runs away with his tail between his legs*

MWAHAHAHA Raelcun <3

Also, happy birthday on korean time!
Alou
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States3748 Posts
June 03 2010 17:00 GMT
#12
It does annoy me that people always come into the iCCup TV Chat and say things like "It's slightly bad here" or "The screen ration is off" or "the caster's mics aren't balanced" (WHich is good because who wants to hear Joseki talk anyways??!?). I can't imagine how much it annoys you, the actual streamer though. Think its okay for people to want certain things in a stream, but they need to be more considerate and patient when a stream is having issues.
Life is Good.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 56m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ByuN (SOOP) 33
Classic 30
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 8715
BeSt 2260
Rain 2116
Shuttle 1184
EffOrt 775
Mini 618
Light 462
Rush 335
Soulkey 224
Leta 207
[ Show more ]
Larva 201
Snow 195
Stork 149
hero 121
Zeus 109
Hyun 103
Mind 102
Pusan 69
Bale 31
ToSsGirL 27
Killer 22
Free 19
sorry 19
Hm[arnc] 17
soO 17
JYJ 16
Bishop 15
Rock 12
Movie 12
sOs 10
Trap 5
Dota 2
Gorgc4611
qojqva1629
Dendi1239
monkeys_forever226
syndereN162
Heroes of the Storm
crisheroes357
Other Games
singsing1891
olofmeister1015
B2W.Neo919
FrodaN656
Liquid`RaSZi417
byalli360
Lowko351
DeMusliM247
XaKoH 191
ArmadaUGS142
Mew2King88
QueenE56
KnowMe54
Railgan30
ViBE28
Organizations
StarCraft 2
IntoTheiNu 857
Other Games
BasetradeTV115
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 18
lovetv 7
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• ChaeLyn 7
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2456
• WagamamaTV346
League of Legends
• Jankos1911
• Nemesis600
• TFBlade493
Upcoming Events
3D!Clan Event
1h 56m
The PondCast
19h 26m
KCM Race Survival
19h 26m
WardiTV Invitational
21h 26m
OSC
1d 8h
ArT vs MindelVK
MiniZergUA vs TBD
Shameless vs TBD
Ultimate Battle
1d 21h
OSC
2 days
ByuN vs MaxPax
herO vs Krystianer
Percival vs Shameless
LetaleX vs YoungYakov
Nicoract vs Gerald
GgMaChine vs ArT
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
IPSL
3 days
TerrOr vs IJ_Terran
rasowy vs Hazorath
BSL
3 days
TerrOr vs OyAji
UltrA vs Gosudark
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
IPSL
4 days
Art_Of_Turtle vs KameZerg
Radley vs George
BSL
4 days
Artosis vs Dewalt
Ret vs Tech
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-09
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
Individual League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

YSL S4
Sector 951
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
StarCraft2 Weekly Open Tournament 2026 Grand Finals
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.