Difference btw C- and C/C+ terrans?

On May 25 2010 08:21 EsX_Raptor wrote:
This is a general abstraction of what I think players go through as they rank up on ICCup.

D-
These critters are at the computer level. They don't use hotkeys nor control groups. They struggle macroing off of one base by missing lots of depots, production rounds, and have at most a control group of peons on their mineral line. They have a very vague idea about build orders and close to no sense of timing. Their gameplay revolves almost entirely on tactics, which are more often than not experimental and based off of their own game sense. Often, their games tend to drag on for hours given they have a peculiar tendency of over-defending themselves and playing passively. They have null scouting.

D
These creatures will never lose to a computer and have learned a single build order fairly well (per MU). Their execution of it, however, is based on an ideal frame of reference; anything you can do against them that can throw them off, will throw them off and render their build useless. This reflects itself on the mineral build up, delayed tech, and bad supply capping that shows in their play afterward. They still experience lots of supply capping and mineral build-up once their have performed their build to the extent of their memory, however, they're much better than a D- player on the fact that they can now deal with 2 bases. They have now developed a sense of needing to attack at a certain point during the game and have dropped most of their overly-defensive tendencies as well. They also have now learned the most frequent-use hotkeys and can micro in a rather average level by use of control groups. They have learned to send out a worker to find the opponent.

D+
These beings have solidified their build order even further and have started to experiment with a new one. They no-longer follow their build blindly; they can now react to what they see with their scouting peon and can branch their overly-trained build (to a certain extent) to fit these new circumstances. They no longer feel as pressured against harass as a D player and can do rather well by keeping up with it macro-wise. They still experience mineral build up during the mid game, however, they have reduced their supply capping very well. They are now thinking towards obtaining a third base. They are now starting to train on their timings and can perform them to a relatively average level. Their micro is now rather solid, however, they still struggle on judging whose army is the strongest until they have suffered severe casualties. They know most, if not all of their hotkeys already and have started to develop a dependency on them.

C-
These humanoids are at a totally different level than the previous three. They now know two solid build orders and have started to experiment with a third one. Their macro is very, very solid and their micro is at a relatively good level. It's hard to get supply blocked given they have now developed a sense of preemptive supply building to maximize their use of income. They are now starting to develop an aggressive mindset and can keep their defense to a minimum. Games at this level now revolve around fights in between massive armies and perfectly securing a third base. They now are starting to train on their tier-three play and have consistent scouting. Their defense is solid and their timings are straight up most of the times. They have now started to develop a sense of attacking two places at the same time, or attacking and dropping simultaneously (multitasking).

C
These souls have a sound mastery of mechanics even though there is still room for improvement. They have now developed a good use of the minimap given their play is now starting to revolve more and more around the notion of multitasking. Their build orders and defense are very solid and their timings are bulls-eye good most of the times. They are starting to perceive the tactic of using mind-games to fool their opponents and their scouting is now good enough to keep them in the game. Mechanics are now starting to become rudimentary - like a foundation - to support higher-level or abstract thinking, strategy and timings are now in the spotlight for further advancement.

I haven't reached C+ yet so I will leave the rest for anyone who's already been there and can enlighten us with his knowledge.

On May 25 2010 07:47 imBLIND wrote:
The thing that holds me back at C- is the amount of time it takes for me to settle into macro mode. C- terrans take a rather long time to comfortably settle into the late-game and stay in the midgame phase where we're the weakest in terms of strength and econ. I feel that the gap between C- and C terrans is huge in terms of how quickly one gets into the late game. It usually takes me 12 minutes to get into the late game and still survive while C's just go straight into macro mode in like 10.

On May 25 2010 08:27 OMin wrote:


and what exactly accounts for thsi difference?

i have noticed i play better if i add a lot more facs when when i set up my 3rd. i used to go ~7 fac when i took a 3rd, but now i go 9-10 fac and add 2-3 more when i have a 4th and im moving out with a maxed push

On May 25 2010 09:41 Nytefish wrote:


It's all the little things, constant SCV production and sending them to mine quickly, never getting stuck on supply, not making too many turrets. There's not one specific thing you have to do, it's every aspect of macro and you need to practice it a lot.

One thing I do notice though is how low level players severely underestimate the damage caused by being supply blocked. You forget a depot, now your attack is delayed by that depot's build time, your economy is stunted because you couldn't make workers and the earlier on this happens the worse the knock-on effect is.

On May 25 2010 09:41 Nytefish wrote:


It's all the little things, constant SCV production and sending them to mine quickly, never getting stuck on supply, not making too many turrets. There's not one specific thing you have to do, it's every aspect of macro and you need to practice it a lot.

One thing I do notice though is how low level players severely underestimate the damage caused by being supply blocked. You forget a depot, now your attack is delayed by that depot's build time, your economy is stunted because you couldn't make workers and the earlier on this happens the worse the knock-on effect is.

On May 25 2010 19:01 OMin wrote:


mind if i ask what rank you are? i do appreciate your comments

so in tvp, what would be considered "too many turrets"? if you scout/suspect reaver, i always see progamers going for a turret ring around their base, which takes ~5-6 turrets for full coverage.
also, in a normal macro tvp where you go for a fairly fast 3rd off 4ish facs and fast armory, would you cut scvs as your 3rd is being established to throw down facs? i feel that at this point, stopping scvs for a couple rounds is hardly going to dent your economy considering you are pretty much saturated... though im not sure what the effectw ould be like when the saturation is thinned out via scv transfer. thanks