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Observations on Lower Level ZvZ Cheese

Blogs > Alegzandur
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Alegzandur
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Philippines52 Posts
May 10 2010 05:51 GMT
#1
***Read this so you don't waste your time: I talk about why a certain strategy doesn't work, where I think it originated from, and what I think would work (these are all opinions)***

So I recently joined the beta (thank you vvvVec and TL!) and was placed in Gold after my placement matches, I'm not particularly proud of that since my goal was platinum but this might appeal to some of the lower ranked Zergs out there since I feel my style of play is relatively easy to pick-up (I only have 50 - 60 average APM).

Anyway on to the main discussion, recently I've been seeing a trend where Zergs try to do some weird 10 pool build where they immediately build Spine Crawlers in their opponents base and follow that up with early lings. This does not work. This strategy seems kind of like the Zerg's version of a reaper-bunker rush except the advantage of the bunker rush is that if it is placed nicely in the Zerg's natural, there's a chance he wont spot it until it's too late. I've played two straight games against this strategy and I've opened with two different builds, both times it was ridiculously easy to defend and it was gg shortly after.

Now, the most popular Zerg opener at the moment is the 14-pool. What this means is that by the time the Cheesing Zerg places his spine crawlers in your base your spawning pool is still probably halfway from being built. You're fucked right? Wrong. Calm down; the thing to remember is that you defend against this strategy the same way you defend against a scouted bunker rush, not with lings but with drones. 3 drones attacking a spine crawler being built is enough to take it down before it even hatches. When you've successfully destroyed his spine crawler/s then you can comfortably go back to mining and know that your lings will be out in time to defend against his. GG. Now the person who tried to do this to me actually put down 2 spine crawlers and micro'd a bit where he even cancelled one and put it down again. What happened was that he placed his remade spine crawler down the same time my spawning pool hatched. When this happens you don't even have to use your drones anymore, send them back to the minerals from whence they came and relax because your 6 lings will hatch with enough time to take out that crawler before it even finishes! Again, gg.

Now another build I like to do in ZvZ's is an Overpool build where I get my pool out only a tad bit later than a 10-pool (because I make an overlord first) but I have a stronger economy because of it. When they try to do this strategy it's even more of a joke since my lings will be out in time to stop the crawlers, defend against their incoming lings, and secure me a lead; again gg. Now I think what we're seeing is a rough evolution of the 9-pool with speed which was a very dangerous build back in SC1. I say this because of the timing of the pool and because sunken rushes back then came much much earlier usually. The reason why I think the ling speed was replaced with spine crawlers now is because the gas harvest rate is much slower in SC2 with only 1 extractor. Even if a really early zergling speed build is created (I'm not talking about the 2 hatch build EU Zergs seem to be doing) I don't think it'll work for a few reasons: smarter pathing which negates the advantage micro players used to have, Queens which own zerglings in small numbers or with support, and shorter reinforcement distance.

Now it crossed my mind if this strategy would be much more effective if the crawlers were placed at the same time as when the zerglings come in. Although I have no games to show it, I don't think this would work because the non-cheesing Zerg's early lings should be able to defend against the cheesing Zerg's lings and reinforcements should take care of the spine crawlers. Does this mean it's impossible to cheese in a ZvZ now? No, I just think most people are going about it the wrong way. The way to cheese is and always will be the 6-pool for me. Against the ever popular 14-pool and especially on maps with possible short rush distances like Steppes of War, Lost Temple, and Metalopolis, this build should allow you to get your lings in their base before their pool is finished and allow you to deal significant damage to take the game.

I like the way Zerg openers are right now, the way I see it it's like rock-paper-scissors where a 6-pool gets countered by an Overpool, an Overpool gets countered by a 14-pool, and a 14-pool gets countered by a 6-pool. In each situation, choosing the right build will allow you to get an economic advantage over your opponent that you can use to take the game in the end. Anyway, that's it for now. I doubt the higher-ranked players encounter this strategy but I'd still like to hear what you think. Go ahead and disagree with me but do it respectfully please since I understand that these are all just my opinions anyway. Happy cheesing everyone!

spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
May 10 2010 06:58 GMT
#2
If you want to cheese in zvz, go 15 hatch. Yeah that's right, it's an economical cheese.
Alternatively, 6 pool and attack together with all your drones.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
Alegzandur
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Philippines52 Posts
May 10 2010 07:18 GMT
#3
Yea I figured a fast expand would counter the conventional 14-pool but it's risky as always and I haven't seen it enough times to give my opinion.
Quesadilla
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States1814 Posts
May 10 2010 08:44 GMT
#4
Revolutionary concept right here:

Scout at 10.
Make a lot of friends. Wear good clothes. Drink good beer. Love a nice girl.
Alegzandur
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Philippines52 Posts
May 10 2010 09:58 GMT
#5
You mean to defend against a 6-pool? Pointless to do that when I Overpool though and I normally do that when I 14-pool just to make sure he isn't cheesing.
DonkeyPunch
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Australia51 Posts
May 10 2010 09:59 GMT
#6
i dont see how a 15 hatch is an eco cheese ...i mean your zerg... they are pretty much designed to to mass and swarm your opponent so its more of a standard play imo.
fast protoss laser ship thing rush - dicember
Alegzandur
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Philippines52 Posts
May 10 2010 10:03 GMT
#7
I think he means it's unorthodox in a ZvZ since those match-ups in SC1 were usually decided by who was more aggressive.
Papvin
Profile Joined May 2009
Denmark610 Posts
May 10 2010 12:14 GMT
#8
On May 10 2010 18 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting              10 2010 18      end_of_the_skype_highlighting:59 DonkeyPunch wrote:
i dont see how a 15 hatch is an eco cheese ...i mean your zerg... they are pretty much designed to to mass and swarm your opponent so its more of a standard play imo.

It is cheese, since if it gets scouted early enough, an early pool will obliterate it.
"It's criminally negligent to dismiss Rock's contributions to other people's careers", Dukethegold
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