• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:50
CEST 05:50
KST 12:50
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL46Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator4[ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task30
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down1[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates9GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th12Weekly Cups (May 27-June 1): ByuN goes back-to-back0EWC 2025 Regional Qualifier Results26
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview Magnus Carlsen and Fabi review Clem's chess game. Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing
Tourneys
Bellum Gens Elite: Stara Zagora 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo)
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans? BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Mihu vs Korea Players Statistics BW General Discussion [BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals NA Team League 6/8/2025 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 2
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Armies of Exigo - YesYes? Nintendo Switch Thread What do you want from future RTS games? Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0 Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Cognitive styles x game perf…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Poker
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 22336 users

Game Focus

Blogs > hi19hi19
Post a Reply
hi19hi19
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States163 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-21 05:27:14
April 21 2010 05:25 GMT
#1
A while ago I came across a very interesting article about categorizing video games. It's written by Mark Overmars (the guy responsible for the GameMaker program I'm currently using) and it's got some neat insight:

http://glog.yoyogames.com/?p=181

Here's the tl;dr version:
Games can be categorized based on their focus using the following diagram:
[image loading]
Simulation opposes Gameplay, Story opposes Social aspects.
Different people obviously have different tastes.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

After reading this article, I keep thinking about it every time I play a game. It's one of those things that seemed kind of stupid and obvious to me when I read it, but then the more I thought about it the more I realized how useful of a system it is.

Thinking about some popular games with this diamond diagram in mind is very fun for me. For example, the Super Smash Bros. trilogy. The first game had NO story. "Here's some famous Nintendo dudes; go beat the shit out of each other. Oh, also something about a hand. Yeah." It was a purely gameplay/social construct with its sole marketing point being its combat system and its addictive multiplayer mode. Super Smash Bros. Melee, for its part, pretended to half-ass a story competent (lol adventure mode) but it was really focused on the multiplayer as well. Brawl had the most fleshed-out story mode of all three games... and arguably the chilliest reception from the competitive community out of all three games. Thinking about it, I can see why the competitive Smash community was so ambivalent about Brawl- less effort spent on perfecting the gameplay and the multiplayer aspect for a shitty story mode. While this is kind of a shallow interpretation (i.e. there's lots of other things Brawl has going against it, and I'm very aware that there is a huge competitive Brawl scene regardless) it's still fun to think about in terms of this Focus Diamond.

This article also FINALLY gave me a way to explain how "simulation" games like Roller Coaster Tycoon can be so popular. It's a really vexing question tying to explain to, say, my parents, how a game that simulates running a business (which they do for a job and frequently hate) can possibly be a leisure activity for me. But of course, these "sim" games are not simulations at all, they are mostly gameplay elements that have a nice veneer of simulation around them. I mean really, even the most modern of the Roller Coaster Tycoon games have pretty much nothing to do with the realities of owning a theme park- it's a game, first and foremost, despite the fact that you find it in the "simulation" category of your game store.

So yeah, I could rant on and on, but I hope to get a discussion going in this blog. What corner(s) of the diamond has the games that appeal to you the most? When you are buying a new game, do you consciously go out thinking, "I want a good story", or are you just drawn to that type of game?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oh btw, I like music. So I'm going to post a music with each blog, because I can. Currently this song is stuck in my head like you wouldn't believe... at least it's a good song ^_^
+ Show Spoiler +


*****
Spazer
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada8029 Posts
April 21 2010 05:40 GMT
#2
I think most people's tastes are largely genre dependent. For example,
RPG = story
FPS = play
MMO = social
and so on. Of course, these aren't the only things we look for in each genre, but I daresay it's what most people consider the most important.

I don't really agree with your conclusion regarding how gameplay conflicts with story. It's definitely possible for a game to be satisfying in both respects. In fact, a lot of the best games out there combine the two - Deus Ex, for instance is a masterpiece in terms of story and gameplay. Your Smash Bros example seems flawed considering how the development of Melee into a competitive game was pretty fluky (I don't think anyone foresaw the discovery of wavedashing and other glitches). In addition, Brawl was developed to cater to the casual player more than anything else.

What the heck does "play" refer to anyways? When you're playing a simulation game you're not actually playing? It's kind of a vague term.
Liquipedia
FyRe_DragOn
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Canada2056 Posts
April 21 2010 05:41 GMT
#3
I usually dont enjoy games that try to copy real life activities (sports, sims, etc), and starcraft seems to have a strong combination of all the other 3, so maybe thats why i like it so much interesting writup though
aka DragOn[NaS]
DCLXVI
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States729 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-21 05:45:44
April 21 2010 05:42 GMT
#4
So does this mean that the games that are in the middle of the diamond - more balanced, tend to be worse as the designers have to split their focus? Are there any good games that can do both story and social (mulitplayer) very well. I don't think gameplay and simulation is possible? I personally tend to like the gameplay / social games, but there are a few good single player games I can think of.

Spazer- I think that he came to the conclusion (or should have) that the story interfered with the social aspect - multiplayer, and the balance of the multiplayer, not necessarily the game play. That would fit in with the diamond 'theory'.
I can already see the ending
RageOverdose
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States690 Posts
April 21 2010 05:57 GMT
#5
Of course I enjoy all 4 corners (albeit not equally). My mood determines what I'm into playing.

Sometimes a sim game is nice to get away from overly fantastic worlds, but I would love to revisit those fantasy stories to let my mind escape again. Sometimes I want to play with my friends, online and off, and just have some good friendly competition (although friendly can get easily thrown out the window online). Then I just want a wacky or interesting game, such as Mario, to put my skills to the test or just mess around with.

It's all relative to what I'm in the mood for. However, I do gear more in favor of story and gameplay, because I like the fiction it usually brings.

I do like the idea behind this diamond. I'd have to really agree with it for the most part.
Spazer
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada8029 Posts
April 21 2010 06:03 GMT
#6
On April 21 2010 14:42 DCLXVI wrote:
So does this mean that the games that are in the middle of the diamond - more balanced, tend to be worse as the designers have to split their focus? Are there any good games that can do both story and social (mulitplayer) very well. I don't think gameplay and simulation is possible? I personally tend to like the gameplay / social games, but there are a few good single player games I can think of.

Spazer- I think that he came to the conclusion (or should have) that the story interfered with the social aspect - multiplayer, and the balance of the multiplayer, not necessarily the game play. That would fit in with the diamond 'theory'.

...less effort spent on perfecting the gameplay and the multiplayer aspect for a shitty story mode

Anyway, the development of the story shouldn't have interfered with multiplayer in Smash Bros. After all, development teams are split into different sections for a reason. It's not like lessening the story writing personnel and increasing the number of gameplay testers would've helped that much. Besides, no Smash Bros game has been balanced - that's why people obsess over the tier lists. As I said, Melee turned out to be competitively good by chance, and Brawl was meant for casual gamers.
Liquipedia
hi19hi19
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States163 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-21 06:38:19
April 21 2010 06:33 GMT
#7
Perhaps the Smash example wasn't the best... It's a good illustration of the concept in theory, but yeah in practice the single-player mode development and the multiplayer are separate teams.

The thing is though, you say "oh but Brawl was meant for casual gamers"
That's the whole point-> inclusion of an in-depth story mode is not something that the hardcore multiplayer enthusiast want, and it was a disappointment for them because it was a focus that they were not looking for. Because catering to "casual gamers" involves slowing down the game compared to melee (i.e. less emphasis on the fast gameplay the competitive players liked), it was moving the focus to a sector of the diamond that was not suitable for what the competitive community expected.

IT MAKES SENSE IN MY HEAD, I'm sorry if I'm not explaining it well in words >_<


On April 21 2010 14:40 Spazer wrote:
What the heck does "play" refer to anyways? When you're playing a simulation game you're not actually playing? It's kind of a vague term.

"Gameplay" is refferring to decidedly artificial constructs that help the user enjoy the game but do not necessarily follow the rules of reality.

e.g. infinite ammo, because the developers think that collecting and monitoring ammo is not something they want the player to have to focus on. a middle of the road approach would be, say, limited ammo, but also having ammo pickups everywhere. A more simulation-style approach would be like some of the modern tactical shooters, where every bullet really counts and you don't just find bullets lying around for no reason. that kind of thing
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
April 21 2010 06:44 GMT
#8
Simulation can be more playful though. For example, if you put realistic physics simulation into a game, it can make it fun to play around with ragdolls, knocking blocks around, etc.
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
April 21 2010 07:08 GMT
#9
MMORPGs are big in the social department, but most of them are also heavily wrapped in story and lore as well.

Still, I think it's an interesting viewpoint.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 7h 10m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
NeuroSwarm 248
Livibee 213
Nina 211
RuFF_SC2 161
StarCraft: Brood War
PianO 92
Sharp 88
Bale 12
Icarus 8
Terrorterran 5
Dota 2
monkeys_forever638
League of Legends
tarik_tv6429
JimRising 935
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King121
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor151
Other Games
summit1g8364
FrodaN3263
shahzam1889
WinterStarcraft433
ViBE243
Models3
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick669
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH293
• practicex 30
• davetesta24
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 8
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• Ler62
League of Legends
• Doublelift5787
• Shiphtur943
• Lourlo925
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
7h 10m
Replay Cast
20h 10m
Replay Cast
1d 6h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 7h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 7h
GSL Code S
2 days
Rogue vs GuMiho
Maru vs Solar
Online Event
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
GSL Code S
3 days
herO vs Zoun
Classic vs Bunny
The PondCast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
Cheesadelphia
5 days
GSL Code S
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
2025 GSL S2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.