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Slunk
Germany768 Posts
On March 22 2010 18:54 Foucault wrote: You mean the race that probably has the hardest (PvZ) matchup of all the races in SC1? If it wasn't for PvT, protoss would suck in SC1. Same applies for ZvP actually, because there is no standart play. You have to outsmart your opponent in order to win. If it wasn't for ZvT, zerg would suck in SC2. | ||
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TheAntZ
Israel6248 Posts
wut its not like any race is really hard to play/learn right now, in terms of mechanics, protoss atm is just not powerful enough in certain ways to beat a zerg at their own level. Terran suffers the same problem to a smaller degree you could draw a comparision of XvZ in sc2 to low level TvP in sc1, in that the terran has to be a better player than the protoss to be able to survive the onslaught of shit a toss can inflict on him | ||
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buhhy
United States1113 Posts
On March 22 2010 18:54 Foucault wrote: You mean the race that probably has the hardest (PvZ) matchup of all the races in SC1? If it wasn't for PvT, protoss would suck in SC1. Lolwut? I'd say TvZ / ZvT are the hardest matchups in SC1. And I'd say all races are the Protoss of SC2. | ||
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AzureEye
United States1360 Posts
On March 23 2010 03:20 buhhy wrote: Lolwut? I'd say TvZ / ZvT are the hardest matchups in SC1. And I'd say all races are the Protoss of SC2. ZvT is wayyyyyyyyy harder than TvZ. ZvT is an uphill battle while TvZ dictates the pace of the game | ||
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TheAntZ
Israel6248 Posts
On March 23 2010 03:20 buhhy wrote: Lolwut? I'd say TvZ / ZvT are the hardest matchups in SC1. And I'd say all races are the Protoss of SC2. wad? TvZ is among the 3 easier matchups in the game | ||
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lgd-haze
Sweden547 Posts
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buhhy
United States1113 Posts
On March 23 2010 03:48 AzureEye wrote: ZvT is wayyyyyyyyy harder than TvZ. ZvT is an uphill battle while TvZ dictates the pace of the game Huh? If T goes standard bio and Z goes 2/3 hatch muta into lurkers, T has to prevent Z from getting a free 3rd. Lategame, T has to constantly produce vessels to cut down on defiler and ultra count while keeping Z from dark swarming into T's natural. Sure muta/ling/lurker micro is difficult but so is MnM/tank/vessel. I don't see how T dictates the pace of the game. T is pretty much the reactive side; they have to delay Z expos, delay/strike before defiler/ultra and prevent Z's push into the T base. I'd say the Z controls the pace of TvZ more than the T. On March 23 2010 04:36 TheAntZ wrote: wad? TvZ is among the 3 easier matchups in the game How so? | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
 I sometimes get matched up with the same player, on the same map, 3 times in a row. It doesn't mean that there are lots of him. Overall I've had a pretty balanced experience with playing against different races. I'm pretty sure everyone is just screwing around with them. The most annoying thing about SC2 is that basically every race has the equivalent of inexpensive recall at lair tech, which makes the game really dumb. It seems like strategic points of the map become meaningless after tier 1.If Zerg is popular in your division, maybe it's because all their units are so darn fast. Seriously, it's like speedlings off the bat so a probe can't scout once your pool is done, then roaches that can run so fast even if they get into a confrontation with a superior stalker army they don't take any losses because they can get away so quick. GRRRR... It's like every Zerg unit is the vulture from SC1  | ||
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
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AzureEye
United States1360 Posts
On March 23 2010 06:27 buhhy wrote: Huh? If T goes standard bio and Z goes 2/3 hatch muta into lurkers, T has to prevent Z from getting a free 3rd. Lategame, T has to constantly produce vessels to cut down on defiler and ultra count while keeping Z from dark swarming into T's natural. Sure muta/ling/lurker micro is difficult but so is MnM/tank/vessel. I don't see how T dictates the pace of the game. T is pretty much the reactive side; they have to delay Z expos, delay/strike before defiler/ultra and prevent Z's push into the T base. I'd say the Z controls the pace of TvZ more than the T. Are u being serious? This is the 1st time I've heard anyone say Z dictates the pace of TvZ. Right now, the standard play is 2 hatch muta and 1 rax CC. Straight off the bat, T gets 2 bases which is enough to build a powerful MnM army and make timing pushes. Z needs that 3rd expo for gas to get hive tech, and T has the power to deny Z's 3rd or make a timing push to kill Z before he gets to hive. Not to mention 1 rax CC's economy > 2 hatch muta. Terran on 2 bases already has advantage on Zerg with 2 bases. T has the choice of going bio or mech, and Z has to adapt to Terran units because Z units are not jack-of-all-trade units like MnM. For example, lurkers are good versus bio but suck versus mech. On the other hand, T can just play MnM and does not have to change up units because of what Z produced. When was Z's 3rd expo ever free when T has map control during the entire fking time for TvZ? T also has various cheese options that are not risky at all compared to how risky 4 pool is. Which is why when T chooses to use a cheese, Z has to react to it, the reacting side is Zerg, not Terran, get it right. I don't see how controlling Z army is anything but difficult; have you ever tried to attack with swarm + lurkerlings on a very mobile MnM army? By the time the lurker is burrowing, MnM kills a lurker and just stims + run back. Swarm? Stim + move out of swarm + irradiate defiler. T has the power to kill Z whenever (before hive, after hive) or just turtle +dropship play and get 3 bases and run over Z's army. The sheer versatility + cheese options + flexibility of Terran in TvZ makes the matchup heavily disadvantaged for Zerg. Thats why you see mediocore Terrans taking down Jaedong from time to time while you barely see mediocore Zergs taking down Flash time to time. Again..I cannot believe you said Z dictates the pace of TvZ. Thats a completely ignorant and false statement | ||
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buhhy
United States1113 Posts
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AzureEye
United States1360 Posts
On March 23 2010 10:05 buhhy wrote: Ok... I get it, TvZ is T dictated at high level play, no need to be so goddamn hostile. Not everyone is a pro player, I have enough trouble controlling MnM + vessel while macroing. What do you consider Terran cheese, BBS? my definition of T cheese differs from other people's defintion. Some people say builds like proxy rax is not considered cheese because its not risky at all, but I argue otherwise because I see it as a non-standard method of playing designed to kill off the other player early in the game. Whether its effective, risky, powerful, weak, I think cheese is still cheese Z possible cheese in TvZ: 4/5 pool, offensive hatchery with sunkens, slow ovie lurker drop, 3 hatch speedling all-in T possible cheese in TvZ: bunker rush, proxy fact, proxy rax, BBS, early wraiths, sunken break / Ayumi, landing building in Z's main, Fast Nuke, Fake Mech probably some I missed but Zerg cheese tends to be very risky and unforgiving | ||
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TheAntZ
Israel6248 Posts
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FlameSworD
United States414 Posts
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21247 Posts
On March 23 2010 10:05 buhhy wrote: Ok... I get it, TvZ is T dictated at high level play, no need to be so goddamn hostile. Not everyone is a pro player, I have enough trouble controlling MnM + vessel while macroing. What do you consider Terran cheese, BBS? Everytime a Zerg wins a ZvT it's nothing less than a goddamn miracle D: I still don't know why people like to say ___ is the ___ of SC2 after like, a month of the beta. chillax peepz. | ||
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