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[SC2B] Why so zerg? - Page 2

Blogs > iCCup.Raelcun
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Slunk
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany768 Posts
March 22 2010 12:21 GMT
#21
On March 22 2010 18:54 Foucault wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2010 13:15 Ideas wrote:
everyone knows that zerg in sc2 is the protoss of sc1


You mean the race that probably has the hardest (PvZ) matchup of all the races in SC1?

If it wasn't for PvT, protoss would suck in SC1.


Same applies for ZvP actually, because there is no standart play. You have to outsmart your opponent in order to win.
If it wasn't for ZvT, zerg would suck in SC2.
TheAntZ
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Israel6248 Posts
March 22 2010 14:18 GMT
#22
On March 22 2010 15:04 Apexplayer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2010 14:41 scintilliaSD wrote:
Zerg is the Protoss of SC2. - Make a lot of units, attack move and stuff.
Protoss is the Terran of SC2. - Proper spellcasting is essential and will make or break a game.
Terran is the Zerg of SC2. - Make a lot of units, cast a few support spells.


Lol wut

wut
its not like any race is really hard to play/learn right now, in terms of mechanics, protoss atm is just not powerful enough in certain ways to beat a zerg at their own level. Terran suffers the same problem to a smaller degree
you could draw a comparision of XvZ in sc2 to low level TvP in sc1, in that the terran has to be a better player than the protoss to be able to survive the onslaught of shit a toss can inflict on him
43084 | Honeybadger: "So july, you're in the GSL finals. How do you feel?!" ~ July: "HUNGRY."
buhhy
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1113 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-22 18:21:24
March 22 2010 18:20 GMT
#23
On March 22 2010 18:54 Foucault wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2010 13:15 Ideas wrote:
everyone knows that zerg in sc2 is the protoss of sc1


You mean the race that probably has the hardest (PvZ) matchup of all the races in SC1?

If it wasn't for PvT, protoss would suck in SC1.


Lolwut? I'd say TvZ / ZvT are the hardest matchups in SC1.

And I'd say all races are the Protoss of SC2.
AzureEye
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1360 Posts
March 22 2010 18:48 GMT
#24
On March 23 2010 03:20 buhhy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2010 18:54 Foucault wrote:
On March 22 2010 13:15 Ideas wrote:
everyone knows that zerg in sc2 is the protoss of sc1


You mean the race that probably has the hardest (PvZ) matchup of all the races in SC1?

If it wasn't for PvT, protoss would suck in SC1.


Lolwut? I'd say TvZ / ZvT are the hardest matchups in SC1.

And I'd say all races are the Protoss of SC2.


ZvT is wayyyyyyyyy harder than TvZ. ZvT is an uphill battle while TvZ dictates the pace of the game
Terrans who whine: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=107788
TheAntZ
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Israel6248 Posts
March 22 2010 19:36 GMT
#25
On March 23 2010 03:20 buhhy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2010 18:54 Foucault wrote:
On March 22 2010 13:15 Ideas wrote:
everyone knows that zerg in sc2 is the protoss of sc1


You mean the race that probably has the hardest (PvZ) matchup of all the races in SC1?

If it wasn't for PvT, protoss would suck in SC1.


Lolwut? I'd say TvZ / ZvT are the hardest matchups in SC1.

And I'd say all races are the Protoss of SC2.

wad? TvZ is among the 3 easier matchups in the game
43084 | Honeybadger: "So july, you're in the GSL finals. How do you feel?!" ~ July: "HUNGRY."
lgd-haze
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden547 Posts
March 22 2010 19:56 GMT
#26
Aren't we all originally BW players? Define hard/easy. Imho, every matchup in sc2 is easy compared to BW.
Flying Tushin!!
buhhy
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1113 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-22 21:28:21
March 22 2010 21:27 GMT
#27
On March 23 2010 03:48 AzureEye wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 23 2010 03:20 buhhy wrote:
On March 22 2010 18:54 Foucault wrote:
On March 22 2010 13:15 Ideas wrote:
everyone knows that zerg in sc2 is the protoss of sc1


You mean the race that probably has the hardest (PvZ) matchup of all the races in SC1?

If it wasn't for PvT, protoss would suck in SC1.


Lolwut? I'd say TvZ / ZvT are the hardest matchups in SC1.

And I'd say all races are the Protoss of SC2.


ZvT is wayyyyyyyyy harder than TvZ. ZvT is an uphill battle while TvZ dictates the pace of the game


Huh? If T goes standard bio and Z goes 2/3 hatch muta into lurkers, T has to prevent Z from getting a free 3rd. Lategame, T has to constantly produce vessels to cut down on defiler and ultra count while keeping Z from dark swarming into T's natural. Sure muta/ling/lurker micro is difficult but so is MnM/tank/vessel. I don't see how T dictates the pace of the game. T is pretty much the reactive side; they have to delay Z expos, delay/strike before defiler/ultra and prevent Z's push into the T base. I'd say the Z controls the pace of TvZ more than the T.

On March 23 2010 04:36 TheAntZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 23 2010 03:20 buhhy wrote:
On March 22 2010 18:54 Foucault wrote:
On March 22 2010 13:15 Ideas wrote:
everyone knows that zerg in sc2 is the protoss of sc1


You mean the race that probably has the hardest (PvZ) matchup of all the races in SC1?

If it wasn't for PvT, protoss would suck in SC1.


Lolwut? I'd say TvZ / ZvT are the hardest matchups in SC1.

And I'd say all races are the Protoss of SC2.

wad? TvZ is among the 3 easier matchups in the game


How so?
Chef
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
10810 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-22 21:46:23
March 22 2010 21:45 GMT
#28
I think all BroodWar players are going to have a tough time adapting to SC2 because they're trying to play it like it's BroodWar with upgrades. The fact is that the game dynamics aren't even close to similar. Maybe right now people feel that Zerg is the easiest to play like BW. Maybe it's just a coincidence I sometimes get matched up with the same player, on the same map, 3 times in a row. It doesn't mean that there are lots of him. Overall I've had a pretty balanced experience with playing against different races. I'm pretty sure everyone is just screwing around with them. The most annoying thing about SC2 is that basically every race has the equivalent of inexpensive recall at lair tech, which makes the game really dumb. It seems like strategic points of the map become meaningless after tier 1.

If Zerg is popular in your division, maybe it's because all their units are so darn fast. Seriously, it's like speedlings off the bat so a probe can't scout once your pool is done, then roaches that can run so fast even if they get into a confrontation with a superior stalker army they don't take any losses because they can get away so quick. GRRRR... It's like every Zerg unit is the vulture from SC1
LEGEND!! LEGEND!!
3FFA
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States3931 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-22 22:25:58
March 22 2010 22:25 GMT
#29
I think its because a bunch of toss switched to zerg after they got themselves nerfed to death by blizzard(I mean, DID YOU SEE THAT MOTHER SHIP UPDATE?!?).
"As long as it comes from a pure place and from a honest place, you know, you can write whatever you want."
AzureEye
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1360 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-23 00:12:53
March 23 2010 00:10 GMT
#30
On March 23 2010 06:27 buhhy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 23 2010 03:48 AzureEye wrote:
On March 23 2010 03:20 buhhy wrote:
On March 22 2010 18:54 Foucault wrote:
On March 22 2010 13:15 Ideas wrote:
everyone knows that zerg in sc2 is the protoss of sc1


You mean the race that probably has the hardest (PvZ) matchup of all the races in SC1?

If it wasn't for PvT, protoss would suck in SC1.


Lolwut? I'd say TvZ / ZvT are the hardest matchups in SC1.

And I'd say all races are the Protoss of SC2.


ZvT is wayyyyyyyyy harder than TvZ. ZvT is an uphill battle while TvZ dictates the pace of the game


Huh? If T goes standard bio and Z goes 2/3 hatch muta into lurkers, T has to prevent Z from getting a free 3rd. Lategame, T has to constantly produce vessels to cut down on defiler and ultra count while keeping Z from dark swarming into T's natural. Sure muta/ling/lurker micro is difficult but so is MnM/tank/vessel. I don't see how T dictates the pace of the game. T is pretty much the reactive side; they have to delay Z expos, delay/strike before defiler/ultra and prevent Z's push into the T base. I'd say the Z controls the pace of TvZ more than the T.



Are u being serious? This is the 1st time I've heard anyone say Z dictates the pace of TvZ. Right now, the standard play is 2 hatch muta and 1 rax CC. Straight off the bat, T gets 2 bases which is enough to build a powerful MnM army and make timing pushes. Z needs that 3rd expo for gas to get hive tech, and T has the power to deny Z's 3rd or make a timing push to kill Z before he gets to hive. Not to mention 1 rax CC's economy > 2 hatch muta. Terran on 2 bases already has advantage on Zerg with 2 bases.

T has the choice of going bio or mech, and Z has to adapt to Terran units because Z units are not jack-of-all-trade units like MnM. For example, lurkers are good versus bio but suck versus mech. On the other hand, T can just play MnM and does not have to change up units because of what Z produced.

When was Z's 3rd expo ever free when T has map control during the entire fking time for TvZ?

T also has various cheese options that are not risky at all compared to how risky 4 pool is. Which is why when T chooses to use a cheese, Z has to react to it, the reacting side is Zerg, not Terran, get it right. I don't see how controlling Z army is anything but difficult; have you ever tried to attack with swarm + lurkerlings on a very mobile MnM army? By the time the lurker is burrowing, MnM kills a lurker and just stims + run back. Swarm? Stim + move out of swarm + irradiate defiler.

T has the power to kill Z whenever (before hive, after hive) or just turtle +dropship play and get 3 bases and run over Z's army.

The sheer versatility + cheese options + flexibility of Terran in TvZ makes the matchup heavily disadvantaged for Zerg. Thats why you see mediocore Terrans taking down Jaedong from time to time while you barely see mediocore Zergs taking down Flash time to time.
Again..I cannot believe you said Z dictates the pace of TvZ. Thats a completely ignorant and false statement
Terrans who whine: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=107788
buhhy
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1113 Posts
March 23 2010 01:05 GMT
#31
Ok... I get it, TvZ is T dictated at high level play, no need to be so goddamn hostile. Not everyone is a pro player, I have enough trouble controlling MnM + vessel while macroing. What do you consider Terran cheese, BBS?
AzureEye
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1360 Posts
March 23 2010 01:31 GMT
#32
On March 23 2010 10:05 buhhy wrote:
Ok... I get it, TvZ is T dictated at high level play, no need to be so goddamn hostile. Not everyone is a pro player, I have enough trouble controlling MnM + vessel while macroing. What do you consider Terran cheese, BBS?


my definition of T cheese differs from other people's defintion. Some people say builds like proxy rax is not considered cheese because its not risky at all, but I argue otherwise because I see it as a non-standard method of playing designed to kill off the other player early in the game. Whether its effective, risky, powerful, weak, I think cheese is still cheese

Z possible cheese in TvZ: 4/5 pool, offensive hatchery with sunkens, slow ovie lurker drop, 3 hatch speedling all-in

T possible cheese in TvZ: bunker rush, proxy fact, proxy rax, BBS, early wraiths, sunken break / Ayumi, landing building in Z's main, Fast Nuke, Fake Mech

probably some I missed but Zerg cheese tends to be very risky and unforgiving
Terrans who whine: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=107788
TheAntZ
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Israel6248 Posts
March 23 2010 01:55 GMT
#33
Dont forget that a Z simply needs superior macro to keep up with a T at low levels seeing as the T army deals such a fuckton of damage, so fast.
43084 | Honeybadger: "So july, you're in the GSL finals. How do you feel?!" ~ July: "HUNGRY."
FlameSworD
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States414 Posts
March 23 2010 02:18 GMT
#34
try playing tvz vs a b rank koreans T_T
skyhighftw on iccup
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21244 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-23 02:31:31
March 23 2010 02:30 GMT
#35
On March 23 2010 10:05 buhhy wrote:
Ok... I get it, TvZ is T dictated at high level play, no need to be so goddamn hostile. Not everyone is a pro player, I have enough trouble controlling MnM + vessel while macroing. What do you consider Terran cheese, BBS?


Everytime a Zerg wins a ZvT it's nothing less than a goddamn miracle D:

I still don't know why people like to say ___ is the ___ of SC2 after like, a month of the beta. chillax peepz.
TranslatorBaa!
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