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Spring break is coming up so I'd have a lot of free time to goof around.
Can someone give me an overview how to write a browser based game?
Here's my overall idea, I want the game to be able to support:
1) User input/login
Each user can log in with some account_name/pass_word, and select their stats. Their stats will be stored on the server.
2) Make the players fight each other and display the results.
Let's start simple and say we only want to do part 1). What I would like is, at the most primitive level, have the user able to use some interface to set up their stats (possibly a gui if I cared enough), and write the datas, formatted, into a file (plain txt is file, i can just parse).
apparently this is a bad idea so forget it. I'll learn MySQL
Then I can do part 2) just by downloading the file and batch process it on my local machine, and paste the result online in plain text again every night or something.
But how do I do part 1)?
I did some research and I probably will need to use SQL but nowhere did I find how can I integrate SQL with a server(I'm thinking buying a server off some host).
Just give me some idea how to get the frameworks together, the rest should be pretty straight forward.
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SQL is just a database interface, isn't it? Back in high school I remember needing to use some browser coding to interface with the mysql database. I'd imagine technology has advanced considerably since then, and whatever coding language I used in the day wouldn't be applicable anymore, but mostly in regard to SQL it'd be learning how to install the thing.
1 would probably involve some sort of javascript or whatnot, basically creating an encrypted bridge between the user and the SQL database, and the bridge would obviously include the game itself.
Edit:
Sorry, I have no idea why I posted, because I'm clueless. Wish I could delete this  Just running on like 5+ year old vague knowledge, bleh.
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Netherlands10341 Posts
You'll most likely want to learn PHP and SQL. You can download XAMPP which is a local Windows setup of Apache / PHP / MySQL for learning / development. Jumping into this won't be easy though without any programming or database background. When you want to put it on the web, you'll need web hosting which can be had for like $5/month or less.
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Hmm if SQL is just an interface I probably don't really need it because the thing I do doesn't really require any fancy operation on it at all.
All I want is to have user to log-in and select some stats, and write those to a file. Don't really need anything more than that.
Hmm...
You guys reckon going through this tutorial is sufficient for a start?
http://www.w3schools.com/php/php_file.asp
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If you don't want to save user data on the server you probably won't need a database.
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On March 19 2010 04:14 evanthebouncy! wrote:Hmm if SQL is just an interface I probably don't really need it because the thing I do doesn't really require any fancy operation on it at all. All I want is to have user to log-in and select some stats, and write those to a file. Don't really need anything more than that. Hmm... You guys reckon going through this tutorial is sufficient for a start? http://www.w3schools.com/php/php_file.asp
Unless you think you're some god-like oracle who knows what he's doing from day 1 and is never going to change his data structures ever.... you're going to need an SQL-based database, as opposed to a handwritten file.
SQL is an interface, but it's a crucial interface to basically EVERY database ever. Which database you use, for your development, doesn't matter.... just use MySQL or PostGres or whatever you can get your hands on for free.
Trust me (but more importantly R1CH) on this one, that using a database is TOTALLY worthwhile over the long haul.
On the other hand, you may not need to learn SQL per se... if you choose to use an alternative web framework like Django (python-based) or Rails (ruby-based) the SQL stuff is taken care of...
So instead of writing something manual like
Select Username from Users Where Username = "USERNAME" AND Password = "PASSWORD"
You can use something like:
Users.getUsername("USERNAME")
And generally be learning a single language, instead of.... like 10.
R1CH's solution requires you to learn PHP and SQL, but also HTML, Javascript, and quite possibly some bizarre CSS that a framework's default settings can help you avoid. If you want to optimize your server instead of just using shared hosting, you might even end up having to learn Java or *gasp* C.
Then again, there's nothing wrong with that approach, but the learning curve is significantly steeper and if you ever end up wanting to get more devs working on your project, the learning curve will probably be steeper for them as well.... (It generally takes longer to figure out what's going on when your code is in 10 languages than when it's all in 1 language.)
Regarding RoR vs. Django:
Though RoR has wider support, thus cheaper entry-level hosting options, than Django... and both have absolute crap support/scalability when compared to R1CH's recommended PHP + MySQL. If you're planning on running a dedicated server to reach a wide audience, however, none of that means shit, since you're almost never CPU bottlenecked... you should just pick whatever is easier for you to understand.
Anyway.... TL;DR: Don't use a text file. Use a database. If you have half a year to learn shit, learn everything. If you have 1 month, pick up Django or Ruby on Rails.
Edit: Mongrel is a server, not a dbms.
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
On March 19 2010 04:14 R1CH wrote:
You'll most likely want to learn PHP and SQL. You can download XAMPP which is a local Windows setup of Apache / PHP / MySQL for learning / development. Jumping into this won't be easy though without any programming or database background. When you want to put it on the web, you'll need web hosting which can be had for like $5/month or less.
thanks for xampp. been installing apache mysql php manually everytime i have to reformat!
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On March 19 2010 04:35 spinesheath wrote:
If you don't want to save user data on the server you probably won't need a database.
If you don't want to save user data on the server, what other options do you have? You can store it all in a cookie. What happens when the user goes onto another computer or clears cookies? All data lost...
You need to store data on the server. And if you do, you are soooooooooo much better using a database (dbms):
1.) You get concurrency control for free. If you have a large number of users this is critical.
2.) You can enable memcaching (which can DRAMATICALLY) improve your game's response time, potentially for free.
3.) You get housekeeping of your persistent data.... for free. (Add a new column, delete a column, retrieve data, etc...)
4.) You get a broad base of internet support for your database configuration (in most cases) for free.
5.) People won't laugh at you like they will when you say you're using a text file to manage the user data for a game site.
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Flash, Java and PHP(with MySQL). These are the current kings of browserbased games. The former 2 being easier to implement graphics/any kind of real-time stuff in it. PHP is more for text-based stuff, but learning PHP/MySQL is very, very valuable, as almost any website relies on these main components.
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This tread made me rofl ^_^
Right now I literally have my apache server running, finishing the admin panel and starting the interface for the PBBG that I'm making as a graduation project (deadline 23rd of March xO)
Anyway, the best site you could possibly find about that subject is http://buildingbrowsergames.com/tutorials/
it helped me a ton and I'm pretty sure it will help you too
About your points:
1) Probably manageable without database, but I wouldn't even try. Creating a table in which to store usernames and their password // emails and whatever else you need is extremely easy, and having done that, another 2 tables (one defining Stat entries, another storing the stats of every user) is just as easy of a step to do, compared to keeping everything in different files.
2)
Then I can do part 2) just by downloading the file and batch process it on my local machine, and paste the result online in plain text again every night or something.
This is rather unneeded, as PHP (Java, some other languages too) offers very easy server based solutions to this.
There is simply no need to go over storing your battle log in a file and computing it separately, when the languages mentioned offer easy real-time solutions.
Hope this helps,
~Vic
P.S. pm me if you want my source, game is still not finished, but i'll be working my ass off to complete it in the next 5 days
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On March 19 2010 04:49 love1another wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2010 04:35 spinesheath wrote:
If you don't want to save user data on the server you probably won't need a database. If you don't want to save user data on the server, what other options do you have? You can store it all in a cookie. What happens when the user goes onto another computer or clears cookies? All data lost... You need to store data on the server. And if you do, you are soooooooooo much better using a database (dbms): 1.) You get concurrency control for free. If you have a large number of users this is critical. 2.) You can enable memcaching (which can DRAMATICALLY) improve your game's response time, potentially for free. 3.) You get housekeeping of your persistent data.... for free. (Add a new column, delete a column, retrieve data, etc...) 4.) You get a broad base of internet support for your database configuration (in most cases) for free. 5.) People won't laugh at you like they will when you say you're using a text file to manage the user data for a game site.
Hey I would suggest using a database, too. I still think my statement is true.
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I've done a lot of web-based programming in the past, both for school and for work; I've worked with ASP, JSP, and PHP, and I think, for what you want, ASP with Flash will be the easiest approach.
For Part 1) of your goal:
While there are a lot of frameworks available for JSP and PHP, set up can be a nightmare for someone with little to no experience. Whereas for ASP, once you have Visual Studio and MS SQL Server installed (both free if you use beta, or if you are a student), it's literally a matter of drag and drop (login wizard, profile wizard, etc.). You can probably get part1 done within one hour even if you have absolute no experience.
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So the xampp is for setting up a PHP/mySQL on the server yes?
I got it but it doesn't seem to work on my own computer :/
If I'm looking at a server already with MySQL I probably don't have to set it up yeah?
I'm taking that javascript and php are supported by browser by default (right assumption?)
I'm looking at this btw:
http://www.inmotionhosting.com/hostingplans.html
Also,
Once the MySQL is set up, I can just use its interface while coding in javascript/php yes?
Much thanks!
I'm fairly familiar with python, but I have no idea how it works with a website so... hmm
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xampp is just a bundled software that installs php, mysql and apache on your computer. it also does a lot of grunt work for you so you don't have to tweak everything from scratch.
php is server side scripting. use this for stuff that you don't want to execute on user's machine. mysql is just a database, use this to store and retrieve and query all your data. apache is the web server that put your game on the web so people can access it.
if you are having trouble accessing the server page. try typing just localhost on your browser. the default page should display something like "it works!". Put the server machine as a dmz host if you want to remote access it.
if you are using windows, you have to start up apache server then the default address that it points to is localhost. on Linux and others, the behavior is similiar. there is a folder in your harddrive where you put all your website files in. use this for testing then maybe buy a dedicated host.
"Once the MySQL is set up, I can just use its interface while coding in javascript/php yes?"
Your database will have its own login/pass which you need to set in your php script. you need to connect to the database, then close it when you are done. All done in a php script.
javascript is a client side script meaning you should never interface that with your database.
php and javascript is pretty much universal. different versions of course will have different tweaks and compatibility issues. mysql you will have to create a few tables, this will come down to your data structure design etc.
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For part 1:
What you want to do is:
Step 1. user/pass login (when they click, action points to a php script)=> retrieve stats from database => display the result in browser.
Step 2a user log out.
Step 2b user make changes => user clicks a button (again action points to a php script)=> new stats sent to database => display confirmation to user.
remember, web programming is mostly transaction based.
For Part 2, just do some sort of scheduled query job on your database tables. For example, every night at 9pm, select * from table A and display the result to a link on your website.
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Most web hosts will have mysql servers. I don't see why you would avoid using it. You could create a table of username/password/user info and save it as what, a text file? Or you could have the exact same information in a database and not have to reverse engineer sorting, search by, or whatever.
Php has built in sql commands, and it also allows you to make generic queries, and they're fairly straightforward/copyable. Like Select Names Sort By ID.
Writing the php will probably be the biggest headache, you'd like to do it with minimal knowledge, but that all goes to hell when you have to error check. If you want to save time, copy as much as possible, because you'll know that it works.
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EPT
