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Well, this isn't really fit for a strategy forum post, so here goes;
My friend and I have been 2v2ing on and off (Mostly off) for like, 3 weeks. Sofar we (as a ZT team, him being Z) have almost no trouble with any matchup other than TZ vs ZP.
The biggest reason we have so much trouble vs ZP is because I am completely clueless as to what I should be doing as the Terran player on my team.
I'm too lazy to upload replays, and I know that there's no way I can be told how to adapt to every situation possible, but still, the other matchups (especially ZT vs ZT) were rather easy to learn, at least for the basics.
So what should I be aiming to do vs ZP? My partner tells me to open 2 rax and expo ASAP, and get a factory right after the cc (or before the cc if a factory is a better choice, obviously) and then transition into biomech.. but it's never really worked out that well for me. I could just be doing it wrong, but I'm sure it's hard to tell without a replay.
So, tl;dr, how should I open as the T on a ZT team vs ZP?
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I used to do this with my partner:
2rax MnM, add a 3rd rax when possible. When your MnM pushes out (at around 10 marines 2 medics or so), you SHOULD have map control for a small while. Normally, this allows your Zerg to expand. If opponent Zerg has expanded, you can try to break him. I usually add a 3rd Rax when I can afford it, and tech towards 3rax Science Vessels. I think going Tanks in versus PZ is generally not that good of an idea. What you really want is ALOT of MnM, and later on some Science Vessels.
It works quite well. Though before you get EMP, your MnM can be really easily owned by storms, so some nice sniping by your mutas is neccessary at times, depending the tech choice of enemy Protoss. Also I've noticed it's very important to have good OL placement by your Zerg.
And always scout for those cannon contains.
Just my 2 cents.
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On January 26 2010 04:00 krndandaman wrote:
dont expo ASAP. if you do, what can you do to help your partner who will get raped by lings+zealots?
and even if your partner spams 342432432 sunkens, what stops them from killing you who has barely any units from fast expoing?
scout what your opponents are going, if they are playing defensive or offensive.
(most likely they will be playing very offensive with 9pool speed and 2gate)
if so, make sure your zerg partner has adequate defenses and make sure your simcitying is working with marine support.
when you both have enough units (when you have medics!) try to push out and kill the opposing zerg.
if you succeed, your zerg should tech to mutalisks and take map control. from then on, its practically gg in a 2v1 situation.
Of course if my ally needs help I'll try to help him, but usually he does fine even with only 3 sunks and a group of lings + drones. And the thing that stops them from killing me is the fact that i depot + bunker my natural as soon as I take it and cut scvs for a small bit to get enough marines out right after the cc starts.
Either way we usually do fine with that kind of scenario, it's just later on when MM starts getting less and less useful that I have trouble in
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thanks for the help, guys.
I didn't even think about skimping on tanks in favor of vessels.
I'll try this out next time we play, I'm going to sleep for now though.
<3
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On January 26 2010 03:36 Sunny Afternoon wrote:
Well, this isn't really fit for a strategy forum post, so here goes;
My friend and I have been 2v2ing on and off (Mostly off) for like, 3 weeks. Sofar we (as a ZT team, him being Z) have almost no trouble with any matchup other than TZ vs ZP.
The biggest reason we have so much trouble vs ZP is because I am completely clueless as to what I should be doing as the Terran player on my team.
I'm too lazy to upload replays, and I know that there's no way I can be told how to adapt to every situation possible, but still, the other matchups (especially ZT vs ZT) were rather easy to learn, at least for the basics.
So what should I be aiming to do vs ZP? My partner tells me to open 2 rax and expo ASAP, and get a factory right after the cc (or before the cc if a factory is a better choice, obviously) and then transition into biomech.. but it's never really worked out that well for me. I could just be doing it wrong, but I'm sure it's hard to tell without a replay.
So, tl;dr, how should I open as the T on a ZT team vs ZP?
I would think that you shouldn't be expoing until your zerg partner has already expoed. 1 base terran is still a fit match for most early to early-mid game tactics. Zergs however do need that second gas in order to function. I'd probably tell your friend to expo and maybe you could do some sort of tech build to go mech instead of biomech.
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You should definitely at least practice some mech as ZT v ZP. Maybe its just a preference thing but as a Z I prefer my ally going mech. Its amazing how lings + vults can absolutely roll lings + zealots. It forces the P to tech to goons a little faster than he may like and at that point you can both put more pressure on the Z, which should force him to sunk more than he wants to. In the meantime your Z ally can get away with probably just 1 sunk (map dependent again) and focus on getting muta out/expo.
PM me if you want some random 2v2 reps. I'm a Z usually with a P partner but I have plenty with us vs ZT.
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Ok a few conditions to check:
Is this low level (D+/C-)? If so, have your zerg ally send one OV to camp over the zerg base, and another OV to camp in front of the protoss base, giving you vision of the ramp. Now, have your zerg ally go heavy ling into a somewhat slow muta, and you go one base mnm, with 4-5+ racks (depending on your macro). Push the protoss the moment he tries to move out. Is he being a turtling bastard with cannons on his cliff? No problem, get 1 tank and push him.
Of course there are various other variations depending on the exact tech of the Z/P, but this works pretty well at low level if P is going 2 gate or some version of 1/2 gate cliff cannon -> tech, and the zerg is doing some other 1 base stuff.
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It depends on what toss does basicly. The best opening builds is 2 rax m&m though.
If zp open 2 gate into cliffcanons at both. You can chose to bunkerblock toss/go fast dropship/or go fast expand. I prefer fast expand because if the other two thing fails somehow you're pretty much screwed. After the 2 rack m&m opening if you don't expand it's basicly getting 3rd rack + factory (vult + mines) + vessel. You could go tanks too but since most of the time you're still in 1 base vults is alot easier and less gasintensive.
vs zp fast tech into goon. It's basicly mass as much as you can asap if you can hold the toss his goons the win is pretty much yours. You'll end up being at 4-5 racks (1 base) depending on map. Grade stim + range asap or no chance  .
What about mech? Mech is only good if you can hide it basicly. Since any good team who scout it will just go powergoons with lings and then you're pretty much fucked. My terran ally has gone fast wraith/vults before if he was able to hide his stuff pretty well and that worked out quite a few times. Only, once the opposing teams surpass a certain level like B- they almost all knew what we we're doing and adepted to it. They didn't have to scout it they just knew we we're trying to hide a tech build .
There might be other openings by zp but imo this 2 are the most common ones.
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EPT
