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On January 24 2010 05:18 jambonkingcool wrote:
"I think we can all agree that what happened was a tremendous letdown for literally everyone involved (with the possible exception of iloveoov)"
Could someone explain me the oov part?
When they interviewed the bonjwas, Oov joked that he hoped Flash and Jaedong would both do horribly and slump after the MSL finals. "Bisu, Fantasy, and T1 needs to dominate too you know..."
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This is excellent, just posting to keep this afloat in the blogs
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Really good post, I second everything here.
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Great post, I hope this quells some of the nerd rage. Nobody wanted this shit to happen and for JD to just be given a win rather than actually seeing the "gg", but given the circumstances (specific build, overcoming map imba, not to mention being ahead by a lot), I think KeSPA did the right thing for once.
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I NEED SOMEONE TO RAGE AT SO LET'S RAGE AT KESPA
+ Show Spoiler +Unfortunately, Kespa was simply the bringer of bad news. No doubt, they were in a though situation and made the best of it. It's just so unfortunate. I'm sure everyone realizes that there's no one to really place the blame on except MBC. But there's nothing to do about that at this point.
GG guys
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5/5. And lol at kona... He spams, hahahaha! But I don't think Kespa was 100% right. They had more than just the 2 options at hand:
1.) Call it a Jaedong victory.
2.) Call a rm.
They could've gotten onstage and done some breakdancing! And they could've been a bit less rash with the initial decision until the replays had been fully analyzed and the players and coaches quietly consulted before letting the situation turn into a KT-FlashDad shitstorm.
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imo, Jaedong should have stepped up and demanded a re-match to show sportmanship. Why is no one discussing his reactions to all this. I think he gets away very easily by just adjusting (comfortably) to Kespa's decision. While he of course wants to win the finals he doesn't know what Flash's part of the map looks like because Kespa didn't talk with the players about the game. How can he then be silent and just take the "free" win?
Bottomline is, we have seen Flash pull off wins in very hard situations before and while many people argue that Jaedong was in the clear lead in this game, it doesn't mean 100% victory and that's what bothers me.
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On January 24 2010 08:21 Foucault wrote:
imo, Jaedong should have stepped up and demanded a re-match to show sportmanship. Why is no one discussing his reactions to all this. I think he gets away very easily by just adjusting (comfortably) to Kespa's decision. While he of course wants to win the finals he doesn't know what Flash's part of the map looks like because Kespa didn't talk with the players about the game. How can he then be silent and just take the "free" win?
Bottomline is, we have seen Flash pull off wins in very hard situations before and while many people argue that Jaedong was in the clear lead in this game, it doesn't mean 100% victory and that's what bothers me.
Jaedong has played thousands and thousands of games. He went for a super greedy builds and got away with it with the absolute minimum of defense, he knew he pretty much had it in the bag.
The last thing he was gonna do is to demand a rematch for a game that he pretty much had won.
I think thats also the reason he doesnt talk much about it in the interview, this guy knows starcraft 100 times better than we ever will and he knew he had that game.
And yeah Flash is capable of doing amazing comebacks against worse players, but this is motherfucking Jaedong we are talking about.
It was less unfair to give JD the win than to do a rematch, so I can just as easily turn this around - why didn't Flash show some sportsmanship and stop all the craziness with his dad and his coach and his whole team protesting, dragging this whole thing on and on by just saying "fuck it, I'll play game 4 now"?
It's not worse of a suggestion than to say JD should take the rematch.
edit: just after I posted this I read a post from Nony which a.o. said this:
On January 24 2010 07:02 Liquid`NonY wrote:
It's possible he didn't immediately realize how far behind he was in that game, but ideally he would have given Jaedong the win. Notify the KeSPA admins that he accepts Jaedong gets the win and then move on. Otherwise, simply relax and meditate until KeSPA makes their decision.
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You know why he got away with minimum of defense? Because of how big the maps are. He would have needed way more defense on a map like Destination for instance.
You are talking about Jaedong like he is way more experienced than Flash, which he isn't. He didn't "know" that he had the game in the bag, especially when Flash almost broke his 7. Jaedong didn't see the VOD or the dark area of the map so he didn't know that he would won that game. Knowing means 100% sure.
Yeah, and this is motherfucking Flash we are talking about. I think you're a bit too biased actually. Because Flash was in the hot spot, Jaedong should have stepped up. It's not up to the person who gets the short end of the stack to prove his sportsmanship in a situation like this. That would only make him a martyr and Jaedong would feel worse about it all.
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On January 24 2010 08:55 Foucault wrote:
Yeah, and this is motherfucking Flash we are talking about. I think you're a bit too biased actually. Because Flash was in the hot spot, Jaedong should have stepped up. It's not up to the person who gets the short end of the stack to prove his sportsmanship in a situation like this. That would only make him a martyr and Jaedong would feel worse about it all.
Can we agree that Jaedong was in a very good spot in game three?
Now, imagine he were to agree to a rematch and Flash would've won the series. What would that trophy be worth?
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Yeah, it's Flash we're talking about. He might have had a fleet of battlecruisers for all we know. Or spontaneously spawn mineral patches in his depleted bases.
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On January 24 2010 09:12 Gigaudas wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2010 08:55 Foucault wrote:
Yeah, and this is motherfucking Flash we are talking about. I think you're a bit too biased actually. Because Flash was in the hot spot, Jaedong should have stepped up. It's not up to the person who gets the short end of the stack to prove his sportsmanship in a situation like this. That would only make him a martyr and Jaedong would feel worse about it all.
Can we agree that Jaedong was in a very good spot in game three? Now, imagine he were to agree to a rematch and Flash would've won the series. What would that trophy be worth?
He was in a good spot, and neither you or anyone else can say exactly how good it was tbh.
The trophy would have been worth more than it is now, that's for certain. The series ended up having one game left, with a devastated Flash. And JD walked over him.
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On January 24 2010 08:55 Foucault wrote:
You know why he got away with minimum of defense? Because of how big the maps are. He would have needed way more defense on a map like Destination for instance.
You are talking about Jaedong like he is way more experienced than Flash, which he isn't. He didn't "know" that he had the game in the bag, especially when Flash almost broke his 7. Jaedong didn't see the VOD or the dark area of the map so he didn't know that he would won that game. Knowing means 100% sure.
Yeah, and this is motherfucking Flash we are talking about. I think you're a bit too biased actually. Because Flash was in the hot spot, Jaedong should have stepped up. It's not up to the person who gets the short end of the stack to prove his sportsmanship in a situation like this. That would only make him a martyr and Jaedong would feel worse about it all.
I didnt make it sound like Flash was way less experienced at all, after the game was over I bet Flash knew he was in a very bad situation in that game.
OK let me make a little correction.
JD knew he was very close to winning that game, as long as Flash didnt have any expansions he didn't know about.
And I very highly doubt that I am more biased than you are.
I like Flash a lot. I'd be rooting for him against pretty much anyone except JD and the CJ boys.
Look, I am not saying that it was 100% over, I am not saying that the decision was fair, but it was still the best that could be done, and JD having to step up there to decide against him winning a game which he was very close to having won, on a heavily T-favouring map, with a specific build order he could only use on it once...
that's just bullshit.
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On January 24 2010 09:25 Foucault wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2010 09:12 Gigaudas wrote:On January 24 2010 08:55 Foucault wrote:
Yeah, and this is motherfucking Flash we are talking about. I think you're a bit too biased actually. Because Flash was in the hot spot, Jaedong should have stepped up. It's not up to the person who gets the short end of the stack to prove his sportsmanship in a situation like this. That would only make him a martyr and Jaedong would feel worse about it all.
Can we agree that Jaedong was in a very good spot in game three? Now, imagine he were to agree to a rematch and Flash would've won the series. What would that trophy be worth? He was in a good spot, and neither you or anyone else can say exactly how good it was tbh. The trophy would have been worth more than it is now, that's for certain. The series ended up having one game left, with a devastated Flash. And JD walked over him.
How is Flash being devestated an argument when JD would've had even greater cause to be devestated after having a victory stolen from him by the referee?
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On January 24 2010 09:28 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2010 08:55 Foucault wrote:
You know why he got away with minimum of defense? Because of how big the maps are. He would have needed way more defense on a map like Destination for instance.
You are talking about Jaedong like he is way more experienced than Flash, which he isn't. He didn't "know" that he had the game in the bag, especially when Flash almost broke his 7. Jaedong didn't see the VOD or the dark area of the map so he didn't know that he would won that game. Knowing means 100% sure.
Yeah, and this is motherfucking Flash we are talking about. I think you're a bit too biased actually. Because Flash was in the hot spot, Jaedong should have stepped up. It's not up to the person who gets the short end of the stack to prove his sportsmanship in a situation like this. That would only make him a martyr and Jaedong would feel worse about it all.
I didnt make it sound like Flash was way less experienced at all, after the game was over I bet Flash knew he was in a very bad situation in that game. OK let me make a little correction. JD knew he was very close to winning that game, as long as Flash didnt have any expansions he didn't know about. And I very highly doubt that I am more biased than you are. I like Flash a lot. I'd be rooting for him against pretty much anyone except JD and the CJ boys. Look, I am not saying that it was 100% over, I am not saying that the decision was fair, but it was still the best that could be done, and JD having to step up there to decide against him winning a game which he was very close to having won, on a heavily T-favouring map, with a specific build order he could only use on it once... that's just bullshit.
All I'm saying is that I hear lots of talk about how Flash should've stepped up to his team/dad but no one mentions Jaedongs (presumed) silence in all this.
I think you're neglecting dropship play though. Flash might have been ready to employ 2 dropships right when it happened for all we know
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On January 24 2010 09:25 Foucault wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2010 09:12 Gigaudas wrote:On January 24 2010 08:55 Foucault wrote:
Yeah, and this is motherfucking Flash we are talking about. I think you're a bit too biased actually. Because Flash was in the hot spot, Jaedong should have stepped up. It's not up to the person who gets the short end of the stack to prove his sportsmanship in a situation like this. That would only make him a martyr and Jaedong would feel worse about it all.
Can we agree that Jaedong was in a very good spot in game three? Now, imagine he were to agree to a rematch and Flash would've won the series. What would that trophy be worth? He was in a good spot, and neither you or anyone else can say exactly how good it was tbh. The trophy would have been worth more than it is now, that's for certain. The series ended up having one game left, with a devastated Flash. And JD walked over him.
We can not exactly say how far ahead JD was, but I'd argue that people like Idra, Nony and Ret have a pretty damn good clue.
Now I can still see the argument of people (like idra and almost all flash fans) that a rematch would have been better, even though I disagree
But again, your suggestion blaming JD is just bullshit.
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On January 24 2010 09:28 Gigaudas wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2010 09:25 Foucault wrote:On January 24 2010 09:12 Gigaudas wrote:On January 24 2010 08:55 Foucault wrote:
Yeah, and this is motherfucking Flash we are talking about. I think you're a bit too biased actually. Because Flash was in the hot spot, Jaedong should have stepped up. It's not up to the person who gets the short end of the stack to prove his sportsmanship in a situation like this. That would only make him a martyr and Jaedong would feel worse about it all.
Can we agree that Jaedong was in a very good spot in game three? Now, imagine he were to agree to a rematch and Flash would've won the series. What would that trophy be worth? He was in a good spot, and neither you or anyone else can say exactly how good it was tbh. The trophy would have been worth more than it is now, that's for certain. The series ended up having one game left, with a devastated Flash. And JD walked over him. How is Flash being devestated an argument when JD would've had even greater cause to be devestated after having a victory stolen from him by the referee?
Man, you are way too biased. I think an argument is a too light way to put it. I read that his father was walked out of the building and his team left, but came back. That's not an argument, that's a chaotic situation for young Lee Young Ho, who's social network suddenly messes up and he no longer has the strong comfort from his team and dad all of a sudden.
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On January 24 2010 09:31 Foucault wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2010 09:28 7mk wrote:On January 24 2010 08:55 Foucault wrote:
You know why he got away with minimum of defense? Because of how big the maps are. He would have needed way more defense on a map like Destination for instance.
You are talking about Jaedong like he is way more experienced than Flash, which he isn't. He didn't "know" that he had the game in the bag, especially when Flash almost broke his 7. Jaedong didn't see the VOD or the dark area of the map so he didn't know that he would won that game. Knowing means 100% sure.
Yeah, and this is motherfucking Flash we are talking about. I think you're a bit too biased actually. Because Flash was in the hot spot, Jaedong should have stepped up. It's not up to the person who gets the short end of the stack to prove his sportsmanship in a situation like this. That would only make him a martyr and Jaedong would feel worse about it all.
I didnt make it sound like Flash was way less experienced at all, after the game was over I bet Flash knew he was in a very bad situation in that game. OK let me make a little correction. JD knew he was very close to winning that game, as long as Flash didnt have any expansions he didn't know about. And I very highly doubt that I am more biased than you are. I like Flash a lot. I'd be rooting for him against pretty much anyone except JD and the CJ boys. Look, I am not saying that it was 100% over, I am not saying that the decision was fair, but it was still the best that could be done, and JD having to step up there to decide against him winning a game which he was very close to having won, on a heavily T-favouring map, with a specific build order he could only use on it once... that's just bullshit. All I'm saying is that I hear lots of talk about how Flash should've stepped up to his team/dad but no one mentions Jaedongs (presumed) silence in all this. I think you're neglecting dropship play though. Flash might have been ready to employ 2 dropships right when it happened for all we know
2 dropships would mean an even smaller amount of science vessels and it would be tough to do any damage, since all the bases were nydus-connected and flash simply wouldnt have a large enough army to do anything
And I didnt hear any talk about how Flash should've stepped up until after I had read your post.
I love how you call everyone out for being too biased, while you are clearly 100% objective lol
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On January 24 2010 09:33 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2010 09:25 Foucault wrote:On January 24 2010 09:12 Gigaudas wrote:On January 24 2010 08:55 Foucault wrote:
Yeah, and this is motherfucking Flash we are talking about. I think you're a bit too biased actually. Because Flash was in the hot spot, Jaedong should have stepped up. It's not up to the person who gets the short end of the stack to prove his sportsmanship in a situation like this. That would only make him a martyr and Jaedong would feel worse about it all.
Can we agree that Jaedong was in a very good spot in game three? Now, imagine he were to agree to a rematch and Flash would've won the series. What would that trophy be worth? He was in a good spot, and neither you or anyone else can say exactly how good it was tbh. The trophy would have been worth more than it is now, that's for certain. The series ended up having one game left, with a devastated Flash. And JD walked over him. We can not exactly say how far ahead JD was, but I'd argue that people like Idra, Nony and Ret have a pretty damn good clue. Now I can still see the argument of people (like idra and almost all fans) that a rematch would have been better, even though I disagree But again, your suggestion blaming JD is just bullshit.
It would be a different thing if there was a replay to analyze, but there isn't. No one knows exactly what Flash was up to. Like I mentioned earlier, dropships are not too unlikely, and could have turned the game around.
I'm not blaming JD, you're making my arguments too black/white. I'm wondering what his stance is in all this and what he said about the power outage. No one knows though it seems.
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EPT
