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http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html
so after watching this I've realized something dramatic about myself and why I have become completely jaded towards education. Just like he said, I've become afraid of being wrong. But academia punishes mistakes unforgivingly. Is it just something people should deal with as they go through nearly two decades of school or more? The times when I truly enjoyed school was when I did not care about failing (community college). Ironically, that is also how I was able to succeed in academia. But suddenly in a world class university, subtle mistakes suddenly become far more egregious.
Again, I admit, fear is what draws me away from that mindset. Fear of unemployment, debt, food, basically anything of monetary relevance. I have many friends who had the same strong ambitions but were quickly slapped in the face with all of their money problems. Maybe it's just me, but it is extremely depressing to see so many of my fellow physics peers abandon the scientific community and pursue an MBA or something.
What I am planning to do is endure one more year and just finish another milestone of school, then take some serious time to sort out my life. Hopefully not end up a deadbeat.
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United States24483 Posts
The link you provided does not work. If you can fix it then I'll give my comments as someone who both majored in physics and is an educator.
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Are you an undergrad? Specifically, are you a Junior? That's a very rough year.
I found that there were a lot of times when I felt bitter and frustrated with school while I was there. There are still things that I feel negatively about in regards to my college days, but when I was still in there I would just get furious about this stuff. I feel that there are a lot of difficulties with being an undergraduate student. Looking at the experiences of others, I would advocate that you try to involve yourself in the academic setting beyond the norm of college courses. You should try to get internships and work with professors in your field. Doing research and lab work beyond, if you can, the rigors of classes, should help you warm up to academia.
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lol whoops link fixed. also im a senior. i also have some aspirations of being an educator
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I agree that in the current education system everyone is far too afraid of ever being wrong. It's bad because it limits people's willingness to try out new methods and to ask questions and such.
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United States889 Posts
Though I didn't watch the video, if I understand the background well enough, the fact is that being wrong doesn't bring in the dollars. That's the way the world works, and it seems like school is preparing you for that, and that can't be all bad.
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perhaps my writing is not so good. that sentence did not get across what i had meant. but that post did make me realize exactly how i felt during high school. a lot of annoying kids who didnt care about school who couldn't take anything seriously. the issue im trying to address is not about competency or mistakes that would be made by lack of diligence. im trying to reflect on the video about how the fear of being wrong kills creativity.
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United States24483 Posts
I saw that video a year or two ago but I re-watched it.
On January 23 2010 07:27 Jonoman92 wrote:
I agree that in the current education system
Something I think is important to point out is that people make sweeping statements about this topic without actually knowing about how much of what they say isn't completely ignorant. Arcology isn't ignorant and I <3 him but I always raise a brow when I see a statement being like this.
everyone is far too afraid of ever being wrong. It's bad because it limits people's willingness to try out new methods and to ask questions and such.
This seems to be common opinion among many people, but I must point out that there is a slow movement away from this, and it isn't as bad as you may think. 'Traditional' schooling (let's say public school of a few decades ago) required you to listen to lectures, answer specific questions aloud, answer multiple choice questions, etc. This is considered horribly outdated for many reasons. One of the most important aspects of the classroom environment that I try to create is that a student should try (whether it be answering a question, completing an assignment, what have you) without fearing being wrong. I try very hard not to make students feel bad when they say something that's "wrong" in front of the class (this is a very difficult thing to do) because I (and many teachers) recognize how important this is (this includes not allowing students to make each other feel bad about it... you know how kids are!). There are still many ways in which public school forces you to obey to a system which rewards those who work towards becoming university professors as Sir Ken Robinson put it, but there is a slow shift in the direction that he suggests. Still, academic inflation is a grim/interesting topic.
On January 23 2010 07:33 Arrian wrote:
Though I didn't watch the video, if I understand the background well enough, the fact is that being wrong doesn't bring in the dollars. That's the way the world works, and it seems like school is preparing you for that, and that can't be all bad.
Then again being allowed to 'be wrong' in your search for how you want to learn/live is often what spawns the ingenuity to create something new and become successful in a new way. There is a balance that needs to be made and I agree with Sir Ken Robinson it isn't particularly even right now.
On January 23 2010 07:39 RANDOMCL wrote:
Although I agree that the U.S. education system needs a major overhaul (at the lower levels, before university-level, at least)
I hear this one a lot and most people can't back it up. Those who try usually fail to understand the situation well enough to be able to make reasonable suggestions. I'm not sure why this topic is so inviting to people who know better.
OP: Your physics major isn't 'killing' your creativity so I wonder what the connection is between this issue and your current situation. I think you are thinking about a legitimate problem but becoming upset because you are incorrectly self-diagnosing yourself. If you keep going with physics for a few more years it opens doors to conduct research in a manner of your liking. In fact, creativity might be the tool that allows your research to succeed.
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i think the current education system is about 6 feet tall.
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Pursue some english classes. Reading some of that was atrocious ~_~
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I think the bigger problem isn't fear of being wrong, but over confidence of being right. This is very prevalent in the scientific community, where theories are given more credit than the scientific method suggests because of personal beliefs and bias.
then take some serious time to sort out my life
I would recommend that you get into whatever you want to get into as soon as possible after graduating. Recent grads typically have the best chances and opportunities of progressing into their field of study, or getting hired. Just my 2 cents.
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I became jaded with academic education because of how stupidly easily you can just coast through it without trying (with the degree I'm doing anyway, which is english/history at probably the no.3 university in Scotland). Like I didn't really come to university to learn less than I could learn from common sense and the internet.
Kinda shit though, cause I'm Scottish and the university's I can actually apply to get into are pretty limited thanks to our stupid grammar school grading system that constrains us almost exclusively to Scottish universities.
Oh well..I'll probs drop out this year or the next. And clearly all of your university courses are ALOT harder than the one I'm doing if people are afraid of being wrong :o
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A great use of 20 minutes.
Thanks for the link!
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All of what I posted isn't to say that the current system is terrible. A lot is done right (including the curriculum taught, when it is stable, that is) I was just constantly aware of how much needed to be changed (as a child and teenager), which is why I become involved in the education field.
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Thank you for everyone's insightful input. At the very least I was able to stimulate discussion on this pressing topic. I believe for the most part that our education system IS gradually evolving for the better, but I think we all agree there are no easy answers. All in all, the most important thing that we can all do is simply to grow as an individual; to become wiser through not only school, but all life experience, and not to lose sight of what is truly important.
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Great video in the OP =]
conclusion: screw ur physics, and practice for CSL more
(seriously)
I'm not really sure how our physics program here works, but I feel like most science disciplines nowadays are very interdisciplinary. RF + BioE + Comm theory + Cog Sci enable wireless sensors in people's brains to study brain patterns/disorders, EE + ChemE + MSE + Physics enable new transistors that are faster, cheaper and use less power, etc, etc. There are a lot of opportunities out there - just keep asking yourself how what you are learning makes an impact on the world, and how you can apply it to do something awesome in the future.
Ultimately, unfortunately, money problems screw a lot of people over...
Edit: Also, you could probably talk to Alan - he's graduating in physics as well, and he seemed pretty content the last time I talked to him :o
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haha yeah Alan is my fellow peer. he's been in a lot of my classes. i actually found out he was going into finance. i was like NNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
but hey, he did say he wanted to be a millionaire some day. go for your goals i guess. i'd be content with a good 5 figure salary, hopefully 6.
also i am PUMPED FOR CSL!!! so so so so so so so rusty though...haha. i've been playing in the D bracket on an alt.
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EPT
