I want to go to Harvard

On January 11 2010 12:32 DeathSpank wrote:
hope you have a 4.0+ and a ton of extra curriculars

On January 11 2010 12:35 StarN wrote:
So I take it you're applying to their grad school? Could you elaborate a bit?

On January 11 2010 12:39 Empyrean wrote:
You know, that's actually my post-collegiate goal as well O_O

O_O

Let me know how it goes!

Also, your application experience, your collegiate experiences, etc., etc.

...are you a stats major?

On January 11 2010 12:40 Judicator wrote:
If you don't keep an open mind, it won't matter where you go. Just don't let Harvard change you.

Also, Cornell > Harvard, especially in men's basketball and hockey.

On January 11 2010 12:40 illu wrote:


No. I am a math major. But I am taking a lot of statistics courses right now.

On January 11 2010 12:42 FragKrag wrote:
good luck in your endeavors

On January 11 2010 12:42 Empyrean wrote:


Oh.

Well still, let me know how everything goes...you mind giving us (me) a bit of background? Like why biostats, your undergrand experience (GPA, activities, etc.), etc.?

On January 11 2010 12:40 illu wrote:


No. I am a math major. But I am taking a lot of statistics courses right now.



Obviously, to be safe I will apply to other places as backups. The ones I am thinking about right now are:

John Hopkins, Chicago, Pennsylvania, Washington @ Seattle, and North Carolina @ Chapel Hill

I will also have a sure-hit backup, University of Toronto. But I have been at UofT for so long that I should to have a change...

On January 11 2010 13:00 Navi wrote:


Washington @ seattle and Chapel Hill are very nice colleges for people who have backgrounds in statistics; biostat majors are always very welcome at Chapel Hill's med school, from what my relatives tell me. UW also has a strong research gig going on, and the campus itself is really tight.

But don't go to harvard expecting success to come out of the school's name and reputation you get from going there. And don't become a mindless harvardite.

On January 11 2010 13:00 Navi wrote:


Washington @ seattle and Chapel Hill are very nice colleges for people who have backgrounds in statistics; biostat majors are always very welcome at Chapel Hill's med school, from what my relatives tell me. UW also has a strong research gig going on, and the campus itself is really tight.

But don't go to harvard expecting success to come out of the school's name and reputation you get from going there. And don't become a mindless harvardite.

On January 11 2010 13:02 Empyrean wrote:


Actually, in terms of graduate biostatistics, there are a lot of schools (public universities in particular) whose reputations either match or exceed Harvard's.

On January 11 2010 12:28 illu wrote:
Up until recently I had never had any goals or desires in life (OK maybe I had some, but only small ones such as making friends and getting laid). However, I do want to spend my life on something that is for the better of the human race. I know Harvard is the best (or one of the best, just to be safe) place for researches in medicine and health sciences, so I am sure if I go there I will be able to cultivate my skills as a scientist.

For all you readers out there, please wait for the good news in 13 months.

On January 11 2010 13:04 illu wrote:


Biostats majors are welcomed for med school? That's good news for me because I still consider going to med school sometimes.

Also, I understand totally that school's reputation is not everything. However, it is certainly SOMETHING. At University of Toronto, almost every professor has a PhD in the states and almost every lecturer has a PhD at Toronto or other Canadian institutions.



I don't mind public schools, but they mind me because I am an international applicant. As far as I know, it's difficult to get into a public school as an international student.

On January 11 2010 13:52 il0seonpurpose wrote:
Dude, Harvard is beasting at basketball right now, thanks to Jeremy Lin. What a baller

On January 11 2010 12:49 illu wrote:


My undergraduate GPA is 3.85. But this is mostly because I stupidly got a C+ in first year philosophy.

I want to do biostatistics because (in summary) biostatistics is math and stats applied to real life problems.

Activity-wise I have little I plan involve on that before I send my applications on December.

On January 11 2010 15:00 Reflex wrote:


For grad school do they only look at your 3rd and 4th year undergraduate GPA?

On January 11 2010 15:00 Reflex wrote:


For grad school do they only look at your 3rd and 4th year undergraduate GPA?

On January 11 2010 15:10 akevin wrote:


I believe they look at all years. Their application asked for info on all courses taken including the mark.

On January 11 2010 15:12 illu wrote:


Yea, well, I don't mind too much. I have 3 mishaps and 37 As. I wouldn't call that competitive, but I don't think they will throw it out immediately either.

On January 11 2010 15:30 Pathos wrote:
As a stats grad student, I want to add that you should apply to stats programs as well. If you're interested in research (applied or otherwise), its easy to do biostats with a stats degree not so much vice versa.

Also, most of stats is applied, I don't see why people would exclusively do biostats unless they absolutely have to do something related to biology, from a statistical standpoint it doesn't really make a distinction. If you're goal is just to work for a pharmaceutical company biostats is good I guess, otherwise have you thought about computational biology?

On January 11 2010 16:16 Empyrean wrote:
Sorry for the questions <_<....but I'm interested in grad school for stats as well and I just have a few.

What's stats grad school like? Where do you go to school and what do you hope to do with your life? What was your undergrad degree in? GPA and other activities? Any tips or anything? >_>

On January 12 2010 00:07 citi.zen wrote:
Careful with your recommendation letters. What I did was this: asked for the ones I needed + one I never intended to send out. I then opened that one and read the letters myself before sending them out. Keep in mind everyone sends in good letters (inflation of sorts), so even a slightly bad sentence can be magnified in the eyes of an admissions' board.

On January 12 2010 00:07 citi.zen wrote:
Activities are important, start NOW. Run for something on campus (does your school have a student board of some sort? anything like that would help).

Take the GREs early AND take some subject GREs, especially since you're a math major applying outside of your field.


Good luck!

On January 12 2010 01:58 akevin wrote:


Aren't most recommendation letters sent via online systems nowadays (all 6 places I applied to were like this)? In addition, even if you are applying via paper application, everywhere I applied to required them in sealed envelopes signed across the back. I know some professors don't mind sharing letters with their students, however I wouldn't count on being able to select the best ones yourself. But it is definitely a good idea to have more than 3 possibilities in case one is busy/away etc.

On January 12 2010 03:11 citi.zen wrote:


Right, which is why you ask for an extra one, which you never plan to use and can open...

On January 12 2010 00:49 Pathos wrote:



On the subject of tips, definitely make sure you have a strong background in mathematics in particular analysis (don't be afraid to go up to functional analysis) and linear algebra. The topic that gives people the most difficulty is probability theory, which requires some mathematical matuirty to succeed.

From this point on its merely a curiosity, but if you want to be an extremely strong candidate there are a few things which may be extremely unreasonable to consider:

1. a very high score on the GRE mathematics exam (will require knowledge of complex analysis and higher algebra)
2. an accelerated MS in mathematics from your university
3. letters of recommendation from a very distinguished faculty member at your university (preferably someone who has served as dept chair). don't ask if you don't think they can write a good one however, as mentioned above there is inflation in recommendations.

Overkill I know for most people interested in statistics, but the level of competition is high to get into the top programs and once you're admitted your classmates (particularly Chinese applicants) will have seen this much math and more. I wouldn't worry about extracurriculars.

That being said, quality of life varies from program to program, also on personality and post-graduation goals. Being domestic applicants (or very close), you should definitely visit the institution after admission for an impression.

On January 12 2010 03:19 illu wrote:


So you are lying to your professors. I don't think that's ethical.

On January 12 2010 00:07 citi.zen wrote:
Activities are important, start NOW. Run for something on campus (does your school have a student board of some sort? anything like that would help).

Take the GREs early AND take some subject GREs, especially since you're a math major applying outside of your field.

Careful with your recommendation letters. What I did was this: asked for the ones I needed + one I never intended to send out. I then opened that one and read the letters myself before sending them out. Keep in mind everyone sends in good letters (inflation of sorts), so even a slightly bad sentence can be magnified in the eyes of an admissions' board.

Good luck!

On January 12 2010 03:39 citi.zen wrote:


I am not suggesting you cheat or lie. I am saying you could ask for an extra recommendation, which in no way impacts what the professors write. It simply gives you more information to base your decisions on. If you have a huge problem with that, simply ignore the advice & just read the "good luck". Whatever :-)

On January 11 2010 12:33 illu wrote:

I am not applying for their medical school though~

On January 12 2010 03:39 citi.zen wrote:


I am not suggesting you cheat or lie. I am saying you could ask for an extra recommendation, which in no way impacts what the professors write. It simply gives you more information to base your decisions on. If you have a huge problem with that, simply ignore the advice & just read the "good luck". Whatever :-)

On January 12 2010 06:56 TeH_Mentalist wrote:

medical>their reg school?

On January 12 2010 09:19 illu wrote:
That is true. But with my crappy 3.85 GPA I don't I have a chance for Harvard's medical school.

On January 12 2010 09:28 akevin wrote:


No point in going to the states for medical school...so much cheaper in Canada and extremely hard to get funding (unless you have really rich parents).

On January 12 2010 09:32 illu wrote:


Well, if University of Toronto takes me for medical school, I'd reconsider my choices about doing a PhD at Harvard (that is, assuming both UofT and Harvard take me for MD and PhD respectively, I will have to make some difficult decisions). However, with my crappy 3.85 GPA I don't think I have a realistic chance of getting in UofT.

On January 12 2010 09:43 akevin wrote:


If you truly are interested in doing medical school I wouldn't restrict yourself to just UofT. Any medical school in Canada is sufficient, and going to UofT does not improve your residency placement or job prospects. In short, I wouldn't recommend applying to the states for medical school, except for improving your chances of getting in due to applying to more schools. Departmental recognition means far less for medical school, unless you have some interest in doing an MD/PhD program?

Edit: Oh and I don't think that GPA would prevent you from getting to UofT, assuming you have amazing extra curric/good MCAT/good interpersonal and interviewing skills/excellent references.

On January 12 2010 11:17 ghostWriter wrote:
Why do you keep saying "crappy 3.85"?
It sounds very pretentious; 3.85 is nowhere near crappy.

On January 12 2010 11:41 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
3.85 is nothing spectacular for top grad school programs either though.

On January 12 2010 11:41 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
3.85 is nothing spectacular for top grad school programs either though.

On January 12 2010 11:39 DeathByMonkeys wrote:


This...

Stop being a douche.

No one cares when your complaining is on the level of "Oh man, I hate the gas mileage I get in my Porsche" or "Guy's my dick is too big and girls are too scared so I never have sex, what do?".

On January 12 2010 11:57 illu wrote:


Probably not low enough that they want to throw it out immediately. Besides, I am hoping my GPA this semester will improve.



Sorry, is that comment toward me? I hardly think I was being a douche. I was being realistic to the fact that my GPA is not very competitive.

On January 12 2010 12:07 FragKrag wrote:


sorry you aren't as good as him and don't have high expectations

On January 12 2010 12:42 lMPERVlOUS wrote:
Sometimes it's not about getting into the "best" university, rather, it's about getting into the "right" university.

The university I am at is not the best for my program. I was accepted into a "better" university, but I chose to go to this one instead. There are other factors to consider. I know, and anyone that knows me knows, that I made the right decision for me.

Also, DeathByMonkeys, if you're really in engineering, I call "bullshit" on you getting laid more often..... Any engineer or engineering student knows why.....

On January 12 2010 15:38 KOFgokuon wrote:
lol@people who think that activities, sports, student government etc have any bearing on whether or not you get into grad school

On January 12 2010 11:57 illu wrote:


Probably not low enough that they want to throw it out immediately. Besides, I am hoping my GPA this semester will improve.



Sorry, is that comment toward me? I hardly think I was being a douche. I was being realistic to the fact that my GPA is not very competitive.

On January 12 2010 21:22 ghostWriter wrote:


It might not be the best GPA they see, but it's not "not very competitive".
I mean it's Harvard, sure, but it's not like 3.85 is bad.

On January 12 2010 21:52 lazz wrote:


Let's not kid ourselves here. 3.85 is pretty bad. Shameful, even.

OP, if you're only getting a 3.85 you should seriously consider pursuing something else. Academia obviously just isn't for you, you're simply not intelligent enough. No shame in that, not all of us can be smart. Some of us have to bag groceries and flip burgers

On January 12 2010 21:52 lazz wrote:


Let's not kid ourselves here. 3.85 is pretty bad. Shameful, even.

OP, if you're only getting a 3.85 you should seriously consider pursuing something else. Academia obviously just isn't for you, you're simply not intelligent enough. No shame in that, not all of us can be smart. Some of us have to bag groceries and flip burgers

On January 13 2010 09:03 ghostWriter wrote:
It's like people who complain about how a test was so hard and that they hope that the curve is really good, and it turns out that they got a 98 and went to the professor to argue for those last two points when the average was a 65.

On January 13 2010 11:49 Cloud wrote:
Yes, because it still is not crappy. Being last place at the very top does not make you crappy.

On January 13 2010 11:49 Cloud wrote:
Yes, because it still is not crappy. Being last place at the very top does not make you crappy.

On January 13 2010 11:49 Cloud wrote:
Yes, because it still is not crappy. Being last place at the very top does not make you crappy.

On January 13 2010 12:47 akevin wrote:
Sad that people always want to bash others when they are having greater success. Dunno why people can't just wish him luck in his endeavor.

On January 13 2010 14:16 illu wrote:
Alright guys.

I think I worded a certain response poorly. I am sorry if I sounded like a dick. It's my fault and I apologize for being inconsiderate.

Like many intelligent posters pointed out, I do not have the ideal grades for Harvard; this is why I am not happy with it (still that is no excuse for me to lash out and call my GPA 'crappy' ) . However, I am still in school so my GPA can still improve (as far as I know, last term I got 4.0 for all 4 courses I took; but those did not get averaged into my current cGPA yet). This is why I am pleadging myself now to go to Harvard because I still have considerable time to prepare before I send in my application.

The actual plan involves:

> Maintain 4.0 for the winter term; (and maybe take 1 summer course)
> Do some research work with 1-2 professors (I am thinking probability theory and/or statistical genetics, whichever interests more at the time)
> "pwnzzzor" my GRE; I won't have *too much* to do in summer so I will devote my time for GRE.
> If I still have time after all of those, I will try to study for MCAT too.

On January 13 2010 14:52 Cambium wrote:


From what I know about my friends who got into HBS, they really care about:

1) internship experience (this is for their 2+2)
2) leadership experience

HBS probably has a different set of judging criteria than its research programmes.

I wish you the very best of luck, and please let us know how that goes

On January 14 2010 12:36 ero wrote:
I'm a PhD student, and I can confirm that this thread is full of terrible advice.

On January 14 2010 12:36 ero wrote:
I'm a PhD student, and I can confirm that this thread is full of terrible advice.

On January 14 2010 13:57 ero wrote:
Namely, the generalizations.

In the sciences, at least, graduate admissions is largely a crapshoot. Most programs get way more qualified applicants than they have room/funding for. The criterion used for selection from program to program varies; it even varies between years as the admissions committees (usually consisting of 3-4 professors) switch around.

Some top programs don't distinguish between a 3.5 and a 4.0 -- GPA being a somewhat useless metric anyway, since a 3.5 at Harvey Mudd is worth a 4.0 at some grade-inflation schools (including Harvard).

GRE score importance varies as well. A friend of mine is at Caltech doing his math PhD, and he got below a 50th percentile on his math GRE. Good for Caltech too, since the math GRE is undergoing an identity crisis as it tries to deal with score inflation from the Chinese score-whore automatons. Yet other programs will have strict cutoffs for GRE scores.

The bottom line is this: graduate admission in the hard sciences is less formulaic than, say, med school. After a certain point, even if you're well qualified for a program, admissions can be a crapshoot. Good luck with Harvard, but keep an open mind and get a sense of other programs you might be interested in. If you're interested in biostats, maybe consider some computational biology programs, or even computational neuroscience, both "hot", exciting fields right now.

On January 14 2010 13:57 ero wrote:

GRE score importance varies as well. A friend of mine is at Caltech doing his math PhD, and he got below a 50th percentile on his math GRE. Good for Caltech too, since the math GRE is undergoing an identity crisis as it tries to deal with score inflation from the Chinese score-whore automatons. Yet other programs will have strict cutoffs for GRE scores.

On January 14 2010 14:02 illu wrote:Which is why I am hoping to do more research in May - December. The ambigious plan for me is publish/co-publish a paper, but that is truly an ambigious plan it's not that easy right now. However, I might be able to get a position as a research assistant for biostatistics fairly easily.