• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:25
CEST 11:25
KST 18:25
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting8[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5
Community News
BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET1Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO85.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)80Weekly Cups (Sept 29-Oct 5): MaxPax triples up3PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition32
StarCraft 2
General
Stellar Fest: StarCraft II returns to Canada herO Talks: Poor Performance at EWC and more... Revisiting the game after10 years and wow it's bad TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO
Tourneys
$1,200 WardiTV October (Oct 21st-31st) WardiTV Mondays RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers Mutation # 492 Get Out More
Brood War
General
BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET BW General Discussion Question regarding recent ASL Bisu vs Larva game [Interview] Grrrr... 2024 Pros React To: BarrackS + FlaSh Coaching vs SnOw
Tourneys
[ASL20] Semifinal B SC4ALL $1,500 Open Bracket LAN [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Semifinal A
Strategy
BW - ajfirecracker Strategy & Training Current Meta Relatively freeroll strategies Siegecraft - a new perspective
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640} TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Men's Fashion Thread Sex and weight loss
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Series you have seen recently... Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The Heroism of Pepe the Fro…
Peanutsc
Rocket League: Traits, Abili…
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1490 users

Current SC2 Standing Pt 2

Blogs > NastyMarine
Post a Reply
NastyMarine
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States1252 Posts
December 06 2009 07:33 GMT
#1
Part Two: Current SC2 Standing

Terran's Hard Counters: The Thor and Marauder

From what I've seen from accumulated video streams, is that Terran can mass these two units in very basic ratios which hinders balance and counter measures for the other two races; Protoss and Zerg have to take desperate maneuvers (unit combos) in order to deal with them.

This is a problem. Marauders have managed to become SC2's Dragoon unit. Capable of being massed at efficient levels due to its simplistic counter-role. Fortunately, it is only a Ground-to-Ground fighter which may balance out this subject.

The Thor is a bigger problem. I've always believed, since being revealed, that a unit like the Thor or the Protoss Mothership should be a unit of rarity. It looks like a power unit too expensive to be made in max production, but powerful enough that you'd be foolish not to have at least one in your unit combination. Blizzard needs to find a way to achieve this.

I was amazed at the new GStar videos on how easily the Hellion and Thor combination was effective against a number of different unit combos vs. protoss and zerg. It looks like the Tank/Vulture combo all over again. Except now the Tank has a profound Anti-air role and the Hellion is just as good as the vulture.

The Thor's attributes need to be nerfed, or its role needs to be downplayed so that it doesnt become a unit worth of mass production. The thor looks like it would be accompanied by a tag-team of marauders, marines and tanks. The combination of just Hellion and Thors is way too easy in terms of racial challenge of dealing with certain threats and in terms of specific race counters.

Zerg's Weakness: Tragedy at Tier 2

The problem I believe worth mentioning is that Zerg tech. units end up being a re imagination of linear SC1 concepts. While Terran gets a huge overhaul in many sectors of SC2's gameplay, the Zerg are still stuck with spell binding actions to deliver blows against the enemy.

I feel the Zerg need a unit capable of scaling cliffs or something to redefine the way the Zerg travel. I've said this a few times before, but the Zergling could use a new upgade - an upgrade that could allow it to scale cliffs (perhaps the use of those wings found in the earlier Zergling models would suffice as far as the lore goes).

The Nydus Canal is along the lines of that notion but it ends up being a side-project as far as being an offensive strategy - there are other efficient ways to deal with threats.

I want to throw this idea out there:
Why not make the Corruptor make the child unit of the Overlord? Have the Overlord evolve into the Corruptor instead of the Overseer. Perhaps give the Corruptor some of the attributes the Overlord/Overseer has in order to balance the changes in strategy transitions. This ways, also, the Zerg have a Tier 2 option that could mend the supposed problem Zerg has been having (it is said that it is the weakest race atm).

Protoss: A simple combination of many

The protoss seem to have the most varied of attack options. They have plenty of interchangeable unit roles and counters which I believe Blizzard is forgetting to use as a reference. Now I understand that each race needs to be different but the Zerg could pick up on a thing or to that is displayed by the Protoss. They are well-rounded and have a vast dimension of depth as far as available counter measures. The Protoss seem to need a variety of units to deal with threats but it isn't a strict ratio of units to do so.

This is different. The Zerg seem to require a larger amount of variety and inexplainable ratio numbers to deal with its threats. This needs to be adjusted in order to gain ground with SC2's fans. I would give a suggestion to help solve this but I don't have one

Back to the Protoss; The Immortal seems dead in the water. Has anyone seen this unit in action yet? I personally love this new unit but it needs to be catered to and atm, there arent a lot of useful counters on my wishlist.

Treatin' fools since '87
exalted
Profile Blog Joined March 2004
United States3612 Posts
December 06 2009 08:36 GMT
#2
rofl nasty marine....
too easy
exalted
Profile Blog Joined March 2004
United States3612 Posts
December 06 2009 08:36 GMT
#3
you can't even play sc1 why are you theorycrafting sc2
too easy
Crunchums
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States11144 Posts
December 06 2009 08:57 GMT
#4
Have you ever even played SC2?
brood war for life, brood war forever
R0YAL
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States1768 Posts
December 06 2009 09:22 GMT
#5
immortals arent dead.

i watched savior play a Bo3 (as P) with artosis (as T) and he pretty much just massed immortals every game cuz they're incredibly strong and multifaceted.

just sayin. i'll do what savior does.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
R0YAL
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States1768 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-06 09:34:22
December 06 2009 09:33 GMT
#6
furthermore you cant back up what you say because you havnt actually played the game... i played over 50 games at blizzcon and i won almost EVERY single game as zerg even albeit Blizzard has recognized and stated that zergs tier 2 is A BIT weaker than the other races.

also your idea about the overlord evolving into the corrupter is a good example of a bad idea its good as it stands with the overseer
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
NastyMarine
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States1252 Posts
December 06 2009 16:05 GMT
#7
On December 06 2009 18:22 R0YAL wrote:
immortals arent dead.

i watched savior play a Bo3 (as P) with artosis (as T) and he pretty much just massed immortals every game cuz they're incredibly strong and multifaceted.

just sayin. i'll do what savior does.


Well this is the point of this thread, to clarify certain points that not everyone has noticed. I
haven't seen a VOD that shows the power of the Immortal.

I've see the Thor, Maruader, and Hellion whoop ass -literally. The other races dont seem to have the same type of simplistic unit mixture that is just as strong without having to settle for a larger mix of units to deal with the Thor/Hellion combo. That is my concern if it is one at all.
Treatin' fools since '87
NastyMarine
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States1252 Posts
December 06 2009 16:06 GMT
#8
On December 06 2009 17:36 exalted wrote:
you can't even play sc1 why are you theorycrafting sc2


Treatin' fools since '87
Athos
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2484 Posts
December 06 2009 17:45 GMT
#9
Play starcraft 1.
R0YAL
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States1768 Posts
December 06 2009 22:15 GMT
#10
marauders arent as powerful as you would think. they only do 6 dmg so they dont dish out very much dmg at all. hellions also arent all that powerful, they are more expensive than vultures and imo they are weaker but they are strong against light melee units such as zealots and zerglings but units like the stalker or hydra will take them out with ez. Thors only counters light air units and they arnt nearly as strong against ground as siege tanks are and Thors are expensive to mass.
Also i would like to say that i think the new storm is too powerful... i liked the old version that lasts longer because you can micro your units out of it but the new one deals all of its damage practically instantly =\
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 35m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 314
SortOf 127
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 3344
GuemChi 1155
Killer 514
actioN 409
firebathero 207
sorry 139
Mini 128
JulyZerg 71
ToSsGirL 68
Sacsri 25
[ Show more ]
soO 24
ajuk12(nOOB) 13
ivOry 7
Barracks 0
Jaedong 0
Dota 2
XcaliburYe1215
Fuzer 44
League of Legends
JimRising 734
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K339
oskar76
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor165
Other Games
summit1g13822
singsing887
C9.Mang0500
B2W.Neo381
Mew2King145
KnowMe142
ViBE65
Trikslyr23
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL10164
Other Games
gamesdonequick1337
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH160
• Adnapsc2 11
• LUISG 11
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos2228
• HappyZerGling130
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
35m
BSL Team A[vengers]
4h 35m
Bonyth vs Paralyze
StRyKeR vs Ample
Safe House 2
7h 35m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d
Safe House 2
1d 7h
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Online Event
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS2
WardiTV TLMC #15
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
EC S1
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
RSL Offline Finals
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
CranK Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.