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Ok,I know this isn't the most original blog idea, but it's been 7 hours and I need to vent. Today I decided to try 'real' online poker for the first time. I put down 20 dollars on Full Tilt and got to work. After 7 hours of grinding my total is now $16.51. While I may have lost money, I'm nowhere near discouraged and I'm actually pretty satisfied with the experience overall. I've gained a deeper understanding about the way strong poker players play and I also learned a lot about my strengths and weaknesses. Here are some of my thoughts.
1) $0.01/$0.02 players don't screw around.
I know I said that I was new to poker, but I had previously spent a bit of time playing poker with fake money on Facebook. I ended up getting 1,000,000 'pretend' dollars because in general, the people there are really, really stupid. .01/.02 was a wake up call for me. These people we're not the crazy 'ALL IN' types I thought they would be, and they played incredibly solidly. Yes, they might have imperfections in their play that I'm too chobo to see, but it's a drastic difference compared to fake money poker. I know now, that making a profit is going to be a real challenge.
2) Poker requires patience, and patience is hard.
I found a chart describing the ideal way to place starting hands in alt)nirvana's guide for online poker. The chart as well as the guide can be found here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=94526
I tried my best to follow the chart as accurately as possible, however it's quite difficult to force yourself to fold an A10 or a KQ or even an AQ. At the beginning of the session I was quite diligent about following the chart, but as I played on it became harder and harder to throw down my cards. This is an area I need to work on, and I think I can only get better at it through more practice, It's like learning a build order in Starcraft; You need to ingrain basic principles so that they can become automatic.
2) Positioning is tricky.
This is a part of poker I have trouble with,especially during 9 man games. If its 3 or 4 people, the effects of positioning becomes very apparent. However, I don't know how to effectively use my position to an advantage in full 9 man games. This is an area I'm going to have to read up more on.
3) Proper betting
Whenever I got a good hand, I would raise 4X the big blind like LiquidMeat said to do in his poker FAQ. However, it's after the flop that I often run into trouble. I understand it's a good idea to always raise by the same amount in certain situations, but I'm not always sure raising is a good idea. Again, I have some more reading to do.
4) I'm even more impatient when I have good cards.
Believe it or not, most of my apparent mistakes were from situations where I was blinded by the strength of my initial two cards. For example, after betting heavily with a pair of aces, it became apparent from the flop that there was very likely a flush possibility. My opponent was clearly raising like crazy. I should have known I was beat, in fact it was blatantly obvious and yet, I couldn't fold an AA. I just couldn't do it, and I lost $2 in that one hand. That's yet another thing I learned, that mistakes in poker are really dangerous. You can play well for hours, but even 1 mistake can throw away an hour's worth of work.
So that's my first experience with online poker. I hope you enjoyed reading about it, and I appreciate any advice you would like to give me. I know now that poker is work, nerve-wracking, tedious work and I respect anybody who has the self disciple to survive as professional player. So I salute you fellow grinders, live long and have many good hands.
 
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Damn looking at the Blogs list on the side I was hoping for Adventures in Pokemon ):
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Snet
United States3573 Posts
It seems you're on the right track. I grinded up to about $220 from penny tables two summers ago. It was a long, horribly frustrating experience, LOL.
My only advice, is don't rush to higher stakes before you're truly ready. Not even to "mess around". I learned the hard way, T_T
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On November 26 2009 15:47 fanatacist wrote:
Damn looking at the Blogs list on the side I was hoping for Adventures in Pokemon ):
LOLOL SAME HERE FANA
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On November 26 2009 15:47 fanatacist wrote:
Damn looking at the Blogs list on the side I was hoping for Adventures in Pokemon ):
Guilty. Replace 'ace' with 'charizard' and we're pretty much there
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First of all, flush the hand chart down the toilet because hand charts are retarded (Your ranges should be dynamic based on the players at the table, stack sizes, position, etc.)
2nd, switch to 6 max games, you will get better faster.
3rd, NL2 players are NOT solid at all. You might need to learn to table select, there really isn't any reason not to have 3-4 80/10 fish playing at your tables. You simply need to bet for value with made hands, don't worry about balancing or bluffing (besides c-bets).
Example: You have AA, it is folded to you in the CO, you raise it to 4x the blinds (you should be raising 4xBB +1 BB per limper), the button calls and both blinds fold. Flop comes A 7 2 rainbow. Don't ever think "LOL I GONNA TRAP HIM, I CHECK!" The pot is 11bb right now, (22 cents at NL2) and you should simply bet 22 cents. If you had say JTs in this spot, you could bet 12 cents. People at NL2 are really bad and if they are willing to call a bet, they are going to be calling a large bet, and if they are going to fold, they are going to fold to pretty much any reasonable bet. Don't ever worry about being exploited like this by people at NL2, just assume pretty much everyone is retarded at poker and seek to maximize every possible drop of profit you can eek out of them. Also, keep betting with any decent made hand UNTIL YOU GET RAISED. If a terrible passive fish min raises your turn bet, just fold. You have AQ 23Q9 board? Ez fold. Raises are generally 2 pair or better (unless you are playing against maniacal players).
You should also try to root your decisions in math. Knowing pot odds, your hand's equity against your opponents range, how often your draws will complete, your implied odds, your fold equity needed, etc. is very important.
4th, if you don't understand what I mean by "80/10 fish" then you need to go buy Holdem Manger or Poker Tracker 3 RIGHT NOW, NO IFS, ANDS OR BUTS. GO BUY IT.
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Korea (South)11575 Posts
Elite you gave some horribad advice.
First, he should not flush a hand chart down the drain. Hand charts are there to teach BEGINNERS. A beginner will not be able to understand just how dynamic they have to be, and will mis-use the idea "oh i don't have to follow the hand chart, so i'm going to raise 97s from UTG, to get a good loose image". Because if they do that at 1c/2c they are going to get crushed.
2nd, switching to 6max to get better. Better at what? 6max? There are many 6max players who get crushed at full ring. Just as there are heads up players who get crushed by 6max. All he has to do is nit it up and play good hands, to get a good cushion. And the best way to do this is reduce variance. And Full Ring (9 player tables) is the least variance of them all.
Don't tell him to buy Hold'em manager, or Poker Tracker 3 with a bankroll of $16. That's absolutely absurd. There's no way in fucking hell he can purchase it for $60+ if he has less than 20% to buy it.
And a tip for you Elite is that confining yourself to statistics as opposed to table dynamics is a horrible way to play poker. I only recommend doing that if your a 12+ tabling robot, who doesn't want to improve as a player. Or else you'll be looking "oh he 3bets 12%, that's a huge range, I'm going to call/4bet light" When you are not paying attention to WHO he is 3betting a lot, i.e. is he 3betting mostly when he's in the blinds against the button/Cut off?
OP, if you want my #1 advice, sign up for a 7 day free trial for www.deucescracked.com and cancel ur payment and download as many small/micro stakes videos you can and watch them.
Beyond that, don't follow that hand chart if you're going to be playing No-Limit Hold'em as that hand chart is based for Limit-Hold'em. There are many better charts out there, such as the one in Ryan Fee's 6max guide found here:
http://www.raise.ch/files/Ryan_Fees_6maxNL_Guide.pdf
Feel free to PM me to get my MSN/Skype and I'll be happy to help you start playing poker. KwarK taught me how to crush 1c/2c a few years ago, and I'll like to keep that going by sharing the knowledge on how to beat micro-stakes poker as without TL I would be no where I am today.
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keep grinding, don't play fucking sit and gos! they are so streaky! i lost about $150 last night, half my bank roll! T_T
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On November 26 2009 15:47 fanatacist wrote:
Damn looking at the Blogs list on the side I was hoping for Adventures in Pokemon ):
same :D
but poker is good as well
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dont play the short stack strategy. seriously, i make most of my money off short stacks because they're so fucking easy to read.
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On November 26 2009 15:47 fanatacist wrote:
Damn looking at the Blogs list on the side I was hoping for Adventures in Pokemon ):
I think we all were
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Damn, totally thought it was Pokemon. Slightly disappointed, but I enjoyed the read nevertheless.
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Why didn't you start playing at liquidpoker, instead of full tilt?
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On November 26 2009 16:17 CaucasianAsian wrote:Elite you gave some horribad advice. First, he should not flush a hand chart down the drain. Hand charts are there to teach BEGINNERS. A beginner will not be able to understand just how dynamic they have to be, and will mis-use the idea "oh i don't have to follow the hand chart, so i'm going to raise 97s from UTG, to get a good loose image". Because if they do that at 1c/2c they are going to get crushed. that's why POSITION was one of the determining factors in how dynamic your range should be, and learning by practicing will help you improve dramatically.
2nd, switching to 6max to get better. Better at what? 6max? There are many 6max players who get crushed at full ring. Just as there are heads up players who get crushed by 6max. All he has to do is nit it up and play good hands, to get a good cushion. And the best way to do this is reduce variance. And Full Ring (9 player tables) is the least variance of them all.
You seriously think a player will develop their skills at same rate at full ring as they will at 6-max? Playing HU is even better, but HU play is out of his BR range and is much too difficult for a beginner.
Don't tell him to buy Hold'em manager, or Poker Tracker 3 with a bankroll of $16. That's absolutely absurd. There's no way in fucking hell he can purchase it for $60+ if he has less than 20% to buy it.
If he is even somewhat serious about poker then HEM or PT3 are ridiculously useful, regardless of your BR size or the stakes you are playing. Being able to go over your sessions, plug glaring leaks, and being able to see your results (very good for motivation, confidence, etc.). If he posted a handful of stats from HEM right now I could probably identify like 10+ leaks instantly. these programs pay for themselves blindingly fast. Also, you can use money outside your poker bankroll to buy things.... And a tip for you Elite is that confining yourself to statistics as opposed to table dynamics is a horrible way to play poker. I only recommend doing that if your a 12+ tabling robot, who doesn't want to improve as a player. Or else you'll be looking "oh he 3bets 12%, that's a huge range, I'm going to call/4bet light" When you are not paying attention to WHO he is 3betting a lot, i.e. is he 3betting mostly when he's in the blinds against the button/Cut off?
Um when did I say this? I'm fully aware that blindly playing based on stats isn't good. However, anyone playing a ridiculous style (80/10, 90/30, etc.) is simply NOT going to be a good player, and is going to be donating money at a insane rate. Being able to spot these players and exploit them to the maximum is going to really strengthen your winrate. Poker is a game of information, and if you want to sit at 1-2 tables carefully observing how each player plays and take notes on their tendencies then that is 100% fine and will probably help you a lot as a player. However, it is much easier to have a program to give you a general idea of how someone plays, and take only specific notes pertaining to certain significant situations. I also stand by my statement that the math behind your action is of the utmost importance. Some situations just will not be profitable, no matter how good you are, how bad your opponent is, or how much information you have about them. OP, if you want my #1 advice, sign up for a 7 day free trial for www.deucescracked.com and cancel ur payment and download as many small/micro stakes videos you can and watch them. yes, this is good adviceBeyond that, don't follow that hand chart if you're going to be playing No-Limit Hold'em as that hand chart is based for Limit-Hold'em. There are many better charts out there, such as the one in Ryan Fee's 6max guide found here: http://www.raise.ch/files/Ryan_Fees_6maxNL_Guide.pdfFeel free to PM me to get my MSN/Skype and I'll be happy to help you start playing poker. KwarK taught me how to crush 1c/2c a few years ago, and I'll like to keep that going by sharing the knowledge on how to beat micro-stakes poker as without TL I would be no where I am today. If you don't mind me asking, what stakes are you currently playing?
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I would advise reading some articles/threads at liquidpoker and check out the TwoPlusTwo Forums. Good luck at the tables yo.
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On November 26 2009 16:51 meeple wrote:
Why didn't you start playing at liquidpoker, instead of full tilt?
Liquidpoker is a forum. Not an actual pokersoftware/network/whatever u call it.
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Post this at LP if you want better responses.
Also that you think .01/.02 players are solid is LOL.
My advice as a once in a while micro player is to not expect everything to be so easy. Your opponents still have brains, they know what a strong hand is and you just have a ton of leaks. read the pokerstrategy.com articles on SnG's and get 50 bucks from them for it IMO.
edit: the most important thing in poker is similar to bw. you just have to care and remember about your mistakes, like watching replays in SC.
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Hey you're pretty much in the same position as me. I started playing penny tables about a week ago. Since I'm still pretty much a beginner, my only advice is to quit playing for a while if you suffer a bad beat. Avoid playing at all costs if you feel you're on tilt. Someone hits a 2 outer on you...take a break, play some SC or w/e, come back later with a fresh mind. Now if only I could take my own advice, I might be playing higher stakes by now. 
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I saw "Adventures in Poke..." on the sidebar and expected Pokemon. I'm disappointed.
Seriously though, patience is very important. If you get bored and play bad hands occasionally just for the sake of it you'll lose a lot of money over time. Also, an important thing I've learned during my short time playing poker is that it takes a better hand to call than it does to raise. If you call, you're sending the hand to showdown and the person with the better hand will win. If you raise, the other person might fold, letting you win even if you have the worse hand. When starting out it's almost never a good idea to bluff, but keep that in mind when you have a good hand and don't go too crazy raising post-flop with it. If your opponent calls your raises or reraises, they might have something better and it'll cost you a lot of money.
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Good luck to you. I just started playing poker recently as well but its been 3 months now. I started at the penny tables and now moved up to NL25. I had some crazy upswings and downswings. I looked at this guide(http://www.raise.ch/files/Ryan_Fees_6maxNL_Guide.pdf) and this is basically how I play now. Its pretty solid. If you want to be patient, just open up 8 tables and play only solid hands in position. Your stats might look like a nit but most people there aren't going to be using any tracking software. Start messing around with PT3(free for 60 days) when you move up one stakes and configure the HED(heads up display). My advice for PT3 would be to have at lot of valuable information. Ill post all the ones I use and how useful they are. I kind of just picked up a lot of these stats and info from reading poker forums and watching deuces cracked videos. Also, I should not be held accountable for any info that is not correct from what i stated. I still new so if I gave the wrong info it wasn't on purpose, please pm me.
All of the stats are given as percentages Also it is good to note that most of these stats only become more accurate over a long period of time
Generic stats: VP$IP - voluntarily put money in pot
PFR - preflop raise
AF - aggression factor (shows you how aggressive they are, you can use this against players if you know they are going to do the betting for you when you made a set or a made hand) You can put people in a generic category using VP$IP and PFR. The stats are usually given like this 22/20 which means 22% of the time they voluntarily put money into the pot and 20% of the time they open.
20/22 - Solid TAG
27/20 - TAG fish( I think)
35/30 - LAG
50/10 - Loose passive
10/10 - nit( more accurate on more hands you played)
70/50 - maniac
TAG - tight and aggressive
LAG - loose and aggressive
Preflop stats:
Attempted to Steal - Use this stat when people are in the cutoff and button and when you are in small blind or big blind. If this number is high, then they are just raising a lot of crap against you with. It might be profitable to just 3bet them with your suited connectors and any Axs kind of hands but 3betting should be practiced in moderation. Also, if you notice that this number is 0 or less than 10, they are really only raising you with strong hands and I would not call unless I have a hand i can play out of position.
Folded big blind to steal - If a player has 100% folded to steal, then you should always raise anything on the button against this player. If a player has something like 60-70% then you should follow the guide.
Folded small blind to steal - same as above Fold to 3 bet preflop - Some players will have 100% and some will have 75%. And some will even have 0%. Sometimes, you can balance out your suited connectors and QQ+ out of position with a 3 bet if you know they are going to fold. Call anything that you would normally play. A player who has 0% (usually a loose passive or maniac) you can 3bet them with hand that you play in the button when you are in position against them. This statistic needs a decent sample size. A sample of size of 5 or better is optimal.
3 Bet percentage preflop - Anything like a 5% is considered normal and is usually JJ+, AQs+ and AK AKs
4 Bet percentage preflop - This should really be a rare thing but if you get into a 4 bet situation, you can almost always count on AK or QQ+(most of the time)
Flop/Turn stats:
Folded to continuation bet on flop - A player who was not the PFR folds. This statistic is very valuable. A person with very high fold to c-bet % is good to bet the flop with made hands and air. A person who is 50% or less is usually not profitable to bet unless you made a hand.
Folded to continuation bet on turn - Same as above but on the turn. People tend to play more straight forward on the turn at these levels.
Continuation bet - The PFR made a bet on the flop.
Other stats
check raise total - Number of times they check raised you. Obviously, a person who does this over and over is usually lying.
WTSD - went to showdown - percentage of the times this player went to showdown. I don't know what is optimal but a player with 70% in this is willing to go all the way to the river. You can use this stat to get value from the player you are playing and see if your hand is good enough for showdown.
Another thing I wanted to add is get the free program pokerstove and mess around with it. It will allow you to calculate your equity in a given situation. Ill give a brief example. Lets say you have AKs and your oppoent is a 20/19 and 3 bets you and his 3betting % is only 5% of hands. You can put this in poker stove and it will show you what hands he is 3 betting you with and what your equity looks like. 5% of hands look like 99+, AKs, AJs+ and KQs. You run about 50/50 against his range, so basically a coin flip. Unfortunately, his true 3betting range can only be given if you played a lot of hands with this guy. You can take out a lot hands and say its only really about 2.5%, if you only have a couple hands where the guy three bets. 3% of hands are usually JJ+ and AK and AKo. You run about 42/58 so a slight underdog.
This is an example of using those stats I talked about earlier to find if you are in the lead and what not.
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EPT
