• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:50
CEST 09:50
KST 16:50
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists14[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy21
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers11Maestros of the Game 2 announced32026 GSL Tour plans announced11Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid22
StarCraft 2
General
MaNa leaves Team Liquid 2026 GSL Tour plans announced Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued
Tourneys
GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding 2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) SEL Doubles (SC Evo Bimonthly)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Gypsy to Korea ASL21 General Discussion Pros React To: Tulbo in Ro.16 Group A Data needed
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro16 Group A [ASL21] Ro16 Group B
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Reappraising The Situation T…
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1520 users

A TL guide to online poker

Forum Index > General Games
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 Next All
aLt)nirvana
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
Singapore846 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-08 06:05:58
June 02 2009 03:53 GMT
#1
Sc2 beta key contest entry!

====

Bertrand ‘ElkY’ Grospellier took home $1.4mil by winning the WPT last year. Ivan "(Orky)Soul" Demidov took home $5.8 mil finishing second in the biggest poker tournament of the year - the 2008 WSOP main event. Fredrik "[GG99]Slayer" ostervold was spectulated to have made over $10 mil (judging from the tax he pays) playing the high stakes online. Even idunnohisrealname "HovZ" just won the Cali Poker Champs for $327,714 last week. And rekrul? Don't even get me started.

So you want a piece of the pie, you are a starcraft player, your favourite race is zerg. this should be easy monies right?? Wrong! Look at the players above. Zerg players dont win.

No but seriously, you probably had some interest in this but never knew where to start. And you knew plunging head-first into the world of online poker sans any research will leave you like a dragoon who just got dragoon bugged. But fear not, help is on the way - thats what this guide is for. And for me to get my starcraft 2 beta key!

General FAQ

Isn't Poker just gambling?
No. Poker is a game of skill, and every decision you make is about maximising your Expected Value or EV for short. And i will explain why.

Most gambling games, like roulette, for instance have a negative EV for you, and a positive EV (5.49% in this case) for the casino. You can wiki roulette to see how they do the calculations. Meaning - sure in the short run you could win, but in the long run, if you played the game 1000 times, the casino would always end up winning by about 5.49%. These gambling games are in favour of the house.

Poker however, pits you against other players and not the house. In a full ring game (9 players) or shorthanded game (6 players), you want to make the best EV decisions against the many other players playing worse(making -EV decisions) than you.

A very simple example would be if you were delt AA before the flop came (preflop), which everyone knows is the best hand preflop. This hand has an about 80% chance to win against any other hand preflop. If u played and raised all in with this hand against a player who played and called every all in, you would undoubtedly have a huge edge as you will be an 80% favourite every time, making it a +EV decision. Of course this is an exagarated example and playing one hand would be silly so what you would do is play say the top 20% of hands. Against a person who plays maybe 70% of their hands, you again, will be making a +EV decision every time u play with him as chances are your starting hands have a lot higher probability to win. This is just scraping the surface, and there is an EV attached to every decision and every situation. As such, many sites often provide starting hand charts for beginners to use, as this would be the simplest way to boost your EV.

A limit holdem starting hand chart from Stox Poker

[image loading]


However, there is always variance and in the short term poorer players might get lucky, win big but thats also what attracts them to come back. In the long term, a good player who always makes +EV decisions will always end up a long term winner. And that is why poker is not gambling but a game of skill of understanding and exploiting your opponents mistakes.

Is online poker safe?
Extremely. Some sites have over 50,000 people logged in at one time. They run advertistments on the TV and the web. Major sites are listed on the stock market. Any bad publicity would affect their business so these sites often provide top notch customer service. As long as you don't do anything silly like giving people your password, or getting keylogged at a pubic internet cafe, your money is in very safe hands. These sites have no incentive to cheat when dealing hands, as you bet against other players, not the house. If anything, they want to be extremely fair as they want you to play as they earn their income in the form of "rake" which is a very small % cut (less than 1% usually) of the total pot. Unlike the casino, you are playing against the other player, and not the house.

Obviously if the poker site seems very dodgy, you have heard of it, they don't advertise, there aren't many players - you wouldn't be depositing your money in there. But for the vast majority of sites, they are very safe and reputable.

Where should i play?
Two of the biggest sites are Pokerstars and Full Tilt Poker These sites have lots of traffic, play money tables, plenty of freeroll tournaments and the very best customer support. If you're a beginner i suggest playing at these sites when you start soley because of the number of games available (play money too), and the excellent support.

The site says "Deposit and get another $600!" OMG! Do i really get another X amount after depositing?
Sadly, not right away, and its kind of misleading in that sense as no one bothers to read the fine print. Well for some sites you get a very small portion (around 10%) of your deposit instantly, but that is rare. What the sites normally mean by this is, you deposit $600, and then after you accumulate a certain amount of player points, they will give you your $600. Now these player points are accumulated by playing raked hands, meaning the sites gets rake from you (for every pot above x amount), gives you player points in return, and if u reach the required points you get that "bonus" which is effectively giving you back a percentage of the money they raked from you. Long story short, this takes about a month of constant play, is very hard to clear at any limit below NL25, and bonuses are effectively about 20-50% rakeback. So bonuses are a good thing of course, but what actually happens is the site is just giving you back 20-50% of the money they took from you.

Is there an online community?
The biggest online community would have to be the 2+2 forums. Basically what happened was David Sklansky wrote a whole bunch of extremely popular poker books, published by 2+2. Players naturally flocked to the site to discuss everything poker related in the forums and a community was born. Posters discuss everything from graphs of their yearly winnings, their desktop setup, the optimal way to play certain hands, and the usual whine post of the bad beat that they just suffered. This site along with TL's sister site, liquidpoker, are very good places to visit daily to improve your game.

[image loading]


"TheBryce" posted his 2007 poker winnings in this 2007 yearly winnings graph 2+2 forum post. Which was subsequently met with "OMG" "SICK" etc, sending 99% of the population on life tilt. Probably the most amazing stats ever posted. Yes, he made 2.587 mil over 157k hands.
sc2sea.com - The SEA / ANZ community
SCC-Faust
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States3736 Posts
June 02 2009 03:57 GMT
#2
No matter what happens to this blog or what people say... it was still a good read.
I want to fuck Soulkey with a Zelderan.
Piste
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
6183 Posts
June 02 2009 03:58 GMT
#3
schibl0r was a zergplayer, right? doesn't he make good money from poker too?
good thing I'm terra plaer :D
DrTJEckleburg
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States1080 Posts
June 02 2009 04:05 GMT
#4
Well, you just got your SC2 beta key in my opinion, excellent write-up despite me having no interest in this!
Im pretty good at whistling with my hands, especially when Im holding a whistle.
Zapdos_Smithh
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada2620 Posts
June 02 2009 04:10 GMT
#5
Very nice write-up wow.
PanoRaMa
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States5070 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-02 04:18:47
June 02 2009 04:15 GMT
#6
2 years later that Bryce pt stat screenshot is still fucking insane.

But I do think you should've devoted a section to discussing exactly how hard it is to become decent at this game (up to mid stakes level), especially in the post-leg games today. As an actual "professional" myself I feel like although I've coached many players at the beginner levels to become relatively decent, I still can't help but feel like it's getting harder and harder to stay ahead of the learning curve without putting in a sick amount of dedication (both time and effort).
KnightOfNi
Profile Joined December 2007
United States1508 Posts
June 02 2009 04:16 GMT
#7
What about tournament poker? Thats my specialty...
RIP eSTRO :(
thunk
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States6233 Posts
June 02 2009 04:21 GMT
#8
Great read.
Every time Jung Myung Hoon builds a vulture, two probes die. || My post count was a palindrome and I was never posting again.
Piste
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
6183 Posts
June 02 2009 04:56 GMT
#9
On June 02 2009 13:16 KnightOfNi wrote:
What about tournament poker? Thats my specialty...

what kind of tournament you play? how much you've made? (and average income about in a month)
Last.Midnight
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
Australia906 Posts
June 02 2009 04:57 GMT
#10
Don't forget Fayth, Grrrr..., and Midian. Fayth in particular makes ridiculous amounts of money, that bastard.
EvilTeletubby
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
Baltimore, USA22259 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-02 04:58:29
June 02 2009 04:57 GMT
#11
I loved this, good read

But may I humbly suggest resizing the multi-tabling pic? For those of us who don't like image resizing, it REALLY distorts the layout.
Moderatorhttp://carbonleaf.yuku.com/topic/408/t/So-I-proposed-at-a-Carbon-Leaf-concert.html ***** RIP Geoff
Sunhay
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada303 Posts
June 02 2009 05:01 GMT
#12
i just realized that every time you said poker, it wasn't hot linked to liquid poker.
www.sunhay.net
Ingenol
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States1328 Posts
June 02 2009 05:05 GMT
#13
Good writeup. If only the games didn't get tougher everyday!
Piste
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
6183 Posts
June 02 2009 05:06 GMT
#14
On June 02 2009 14:01 Sunhay wrote:
i just realized that every time you said poker, it wasn't hot linked to liquid poker.

yea wtf oO
aLt)nirvana
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
Singapore846 Posts
June 02 2009 05:09 GMT
#15
On June 02 2009 13:57 EvilTeletubby wrote:
I loved this, good read

But may I humbly suggest resizing the multi-tabling pic? For those of us who don't like image resizing, it REALLY distorts the layout.


dunno how to do that! ure a mod u can edit that for me right ? thanks!
sc2sea.com - The SEA / ANZ community
jodogohoo
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada2533 Posts
June 02 2009 05:12 GMT
#16
you can get this at liquid poker, but you have to look long and hard to find it.
5/5
aLt)nirvana
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
Singapore846 Posts
June 02 2009 05:14 GMT
#17
On June 02 2009 14:12 jodogohoo wrote:
you can get this at liquid poker, but you have to look long and hard to find it.
5/5


ya i wrote that on knol a few months ago, this one is a much updated and refined version!
sc2sea.com - The SEA / ANZ community
JWD
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States12607 Posts
June 02 2009 05:21 GMT
#18
This is really interesting...I like the bits on poker culture, like the two teenagers living together in a house they bought with their winnings o.o

I'm loving this SC2 beta contest! Posting quality is skyrocketing!
✌
Drowsy
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
United States4876 Posts
June 02 2009 05:34 GMT
#19
Congrats on beta key, if you don't win it it'll be a travesty. This guide+grot's guide should be essential reading for aspiring poker players.
Our Protoss, Who art in Aiur HongUn be Thy name; Thy stalker come, Thy will be blunk, on ladder as it is in Micro Tourny. Give us this win in our daily ladder, and forgive us our cheeses, As we forgive those who play zerg against us.
Xeofreestyler
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
Belgium6775 Posts
June 02 2009 05:35 GMT
#20
holy shit that forum post by raptor LOL sheer decadence

totally gonna read this when I have more time
GJ!
Graphics
1 2 3 4 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 10m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
actioN 1242
Horang2 1175
ggaemo 219
PianO 160
Nal_rA 78
BeSt 71
sSak 56
Sacsri 11
Sharp 9
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm165
XaKoH 18
League of Legends
JimRising 679
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox655
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor209
MindelVK9
Other Games
WinterStarcraft501
Happy241
PiGStarcraft180
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream8353
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream2042
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH286
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2h 10m
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
3h 10m
Ladder Legends
7h 10m
IPSL
8h 10m
JDConan vs TBD
Aegong vs rasowy
BSL
11h 10m
StRyKeR vs rasowy
Artosis vs Aether
JDConan vs OyAji
Hawk vs izu
CranKy Ducklings
16h 10m
Replay Cast
1d 1h
Wardi Open
1d 2h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 2h
Bisu vs Ample
Jaedong vs Flash
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 8h
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
1d 18h
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Barracks vs Leta
Royal vs Light
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
KCM Race Survival
4 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Escore
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
6 days
Ladder Legends
6 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
BSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W3
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W4
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.