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IskatuMesk
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada969 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-29 20:55:12
October 29 2009 20:39 GMT
#1
So, recently I started taking a fairly potent anti-depressant called Wellbutrin. It has helped quite a bit with my inability to function, although concentration still remains an issue.

So I figured it was long due to really devote a lot of energy to my currently 1021 page novel. This is my life's work, and I fully intend to finish it no matter how long it takes.

Some of the big problems with the book weren't the fact that it was only halfway finished, but with what was already written. Some of the writing is almost 7 years old, and there's some holes and inconsistencies that needed fixing. So I'm challenging myself to read through and revise a very large portion of the book.

Here's a portion of the very beginning that I've been working on revising.

An ancient world creaked to life. Old wounds, or perhaps new ones that had been forced away in sleep, woke anew. Unwelcome pokes and prods forced his eyes open to take in the world.

“... As if fate itself would bind me to my mission, I must not deny who I am. I am a weapon. A soldier. My purpose is to destroy the enemy. Little more. I was created to obliterate the enemies of the Great Lord, and that I shall do.”

The words he recited. The meaning they held. Every bit as unwelcome as the figure before him. In the darkness his interrogator's white cuirass stood out like an open flame. He stood confident and strong, despite the years of sleep tugging at his mind and body. His eyes focused on no particular object, staring blankly into the darkness beyond, even though he could make out the motions of those around him.

Why was it now that the High Templar stood before him? He did not know. He had appeared before, forcing him out of his slumber. This time, he seemed to be in a hurry. Stasis slime still dripped from his body as pearly-white creatures hovered and bobbed around him, inspecting his body as they had time and time again.

Orbiting the fiery eye of Lo`Heem, the massive Mantis ship appeared as a tangled mass of flesh and metal. To an unsuspecting eye, the platform was a mishmash of disorganized and tangled material without any purpose or reason to be. However, to those who called it home, it was far more than the messy inanity it seemed. The planet-sized hunk of fleshy, green-brown material housed only one chamber, large enough that he couldn't make out the end of the chamber despite various lighting apparatuses circling the ceiling and floor. Lining the damp chamber from top to bottom were hundreds of faint emerald cylinders. Most of them were empty – their inhabitants now training for war upon the storm world of Azkazar. This particular cylinder had been occupied until now. This world was his home. It was all he had known.

He knew himself as subject 331. He was Aumus. He looked like any other Zegredark, he figured. Aumus stood roughly nine feet. His skin was a grey typical of the early Strands. Aumus' horns and tusks were not fully developed. His will had kept these features immature and undeveloped. His muscles weren't nearly as impressive as the High Templar's, but he still stood with the defiant nature that was all he knew. Nemesis didn't seem so abrasive of this silent insult. Feigned pride, but pride regardless. It was all he had, now.

The High Templar broke stance for a moment, allowing a smirk to creep across his dry lips. This was the defining moment, Aumus thought. This wakening wasn't like the others. He was Fallen. If it wasn't for the High Templar's interference, he would be decorating the surface of Nazadune by now. No, Nemesis had plans for him.

The insectoid creatures floating around Aumus backed off, satisfied with the condition his body was in. Nemesis nodded to them as they hovered back to the High Templar's sides, their emotionless eyes never focusing on any single object. He looked into Aumus' eyes. Nemesis seemed to study him a bit closer, although they had met under similar circumstances many times before.

Both Nemesis and Aumus bore the same basic traits all male Zegredark did to his knowledge. Their pale, almost blue-white skin, seemed to glow in the darkness. Neither of them bore facial hair, however, and Aumus' skin was not quite as scaled as Nemesis' was. Nemesis' skin was whiter of the two. The High Templar's two large horns that came from behind his pointed ears curved in an almost spiral-like design, much like mythical demon figures Aumus scarcely recalled, were more of a ordamental feature than having any real use. They made him stand out, as did his ceremonial bone-white armor, which Aumus found strange to be wearing now of all times.

“You're not free, Aumus.” Nemesis said. The figured before him nodded slowly.
“I know. You would put me through hell itself again, wouldn't you?” the figure asked. He already knew the answer.
“I would.” Nemesis said. The High Templar was two feet shorter than Aumus, but they both knew all too well that he could strike his captive down without even so much as blinking an eye. Nemesis, the Right Hand of Ascherzon, knew no Templar that could face him in combat, armed or not. As he led the Fallen through the facility, towards the only dim light at the end of the chamber, he seemed to lose himself in trained thought. No doubt he was reciting the orders given to him by Ascherzon, the Zegredark's God and creator. Ascherzon was the only figure that could give the High Templar orders, especially when it concerned Fallen. Aumus knew that he was traveling down a new road. He would be put through worse than hell.

He would be put through the Mantis.

The two small ashen insects that floated behind the Templar were known as the Mantis. Aumus perhaps knew more about the Mantis than he did about the Templar themselves. They were the Templar's scientists, creatures created for the sole purpose of research and creation. Templar were not born – they were created, and those created under ill terms often faced reconstruction at the hands of the Mantis. Many Templar had been sent to Z`untul, only to return insane and only fit for a tasteless destruction. The Mantis didn't care, though. They perfected their methods through experimentation, and a specimen was a specimen. There would always be more. Even though Aumus supposedly held a great deal of importance to their masters, there were countless other subjects they could fiddle with to achieve the same results. An age meant nothing to them. Although, Nemesis seemed to be growing impatient. When Ascherzon became impatient, this reflected on his minions. The Mantis clicked their mandibles in mute conclusion.


This still needs some perspective-related stuff to be fixed and clarified, but I consider it quite an improvement over the mess it was a few days ago where it was bouncing between Nemesis and Aumus without any reason or pause.

Maybe I'll post some more as I go along.

Alas, the "Templar" are totally unrelated to Starcraft.

I realize there is still some typos/spelling mistakes. I don't pride my knowledge of English very well.

/e fixed the most immediate one I could see.

*****
ghermination
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States2851 Posts
October 29 2009 21:50 GMT
#2
Your storytelling is kind of muddy but i can definitely get a general sense of the story. When you publish this make a free ebook copy please.
U Gotta Skate.
IskatuMesk
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada969 Posts
October 29 2009 21:50 GMT
#3
I don't plan to publish it.

Can you tell me how it's "muddy"? Any kind of feedback to help me improve it would be nice.
Fontong
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States6454 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-29 21:58:56
October 29 2009 21:54 GMT
#4
One thing that, in my opinion, greatly detracts from an otherwise well written passage is the overuse of proper nouns. I can see how you are trying to color the opening with your descriptions, but this is really hurting your efforts. One thing I really notice about good books is the simplicity of their openings.

their inhabitants now training for war upon the storm world of Azkazar.

for example, this sentence tells me exactly what I need to know without the crossed out section, and does it in a MUCH simpler and easy to read fashion. Instead of leaving off on something I know nothing about, you leaver a deeper impression

I guess I'll wait for your impressions on this idea before I go too much further
--
An ancient world creaked to life. Old wounds, or perhaps new ones that had been forced away in sleep, woke anew. Unwelcome pokes and prods forced his eyes open to take in the world.

This sticks out to me as 'out of character' terminology. Since you are trying to create a fairly serious air(right?) 'pokes and prods' don't fit in too well.
[SECRET FONT] "Dragoon bunker"
IskatuMesk
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada969 Posts
October 29 2009 21:57 GMT
#5
Ah yes, I understand what you are talking about. Believe me, it was much worse. The beginning of the book is by far the hardest writing I've ever done. Trying to figure out what would be a good amount of information to reveal, especially given the perspective character's circumstances, is a challenge. It's one thing I plan to take a very close look at and will probably change.

Descriptions are my toughest point. I don't have any kind of training or whatever to go with, so it's difficult for me to describe complex things. This is especially apparent in the beginning.
A3iL3r0n
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States2196 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-29 22:28:28
October 29 2009 22:21 GMT
#6
Fontong has it right. Most of the sentences could be improved by removing the redundant parts, and also, choosing a better word in some instances.

A couple of examples.

+ Show Spoiler +
"Orbiting the fiery eye of Lo`Heem, the massive Mantis ship appeared as a tangled mass of flesh and metal."

"Appear" is a word that connotes superficial perception, that is, without surety of knowledge. In this case, we don't know if the ship "appeared" as in "materialized" or "warped-in" or if it merely "looks" like "a tangled mass of flesh and metal". A more specific word would juice up this sentence. Also, we don't know who the Mantis are, and if the scene previously described is taking place within the ship. Since this is the beginning of the novel we need to have more explanation or tantalizing mystery, not disconnected events.


+ Show Spoiler +
"The High Templar broke stance for a moment, allowing a smirk to creep across his dry lips."

The language here is sort of funny. "Broke stance" gives me the image of someone undisciplined, which conflicts with the noun "High Templar" which is solemn, august and powerful. In other words, it appears involuntary whereas High Templar should always be in control. "Allowing" is unnecessary, we assume naturally that he has control of his own body. "Smirk" connotes of impishness, being undisciplined, and not being straight forward. Maybe they should not be called High Templar?


+ Show Spoiler +
Some of the names you are using sound like transmutations from existing works of fantasy.
Azkazar sounds like Azkaban.
Ascherzon sounds like Asheron.
Actually, a lot of the names just sound "made up", by which I mean that they make me laugh rather than involve me in the story. They should sound cool when said aloud. Also, there's an inconsistency with giving two characters of the same race different types of names. Nemesis is an English word. Aumus is a made up name, and not a real word (afaik). But they are from the same culture presumably, and having different style names dampens the suspension of disbelief.

My psychiatrist says I have deep-seated Ragneuroses :(
Triple7
Profile Joined April 2009
United States656 Posts
October 29 2009 22:25 GMT
#7
I like it so far, but I'm a big science fiction fan, and this graph does occasionally ring true:
[image loading]
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IskatuMesk
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada969 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-29 22:34:36
October 29 2009 22:30 GMT
#8
A3iL3r0n >

Hmm, I see. All I know of English I've learned from the internet and a bit of reading. School was... horrible. But I understand completely.

And that's why I posted this particular part; I consider it the worst, and I wanted to know specific reasons why.

Triple7 > I understand that, too, and I do try to keep the fantasy babble to a minimum.

/e I see you edited your post.

Nemesis is a title, they just prefer to call him that rather that his real name since it is pretty infamous. Most Templar don't know his name. Perhaps I should make that evident.

I don't read much modern/semi-modern fiction so there is bound to be a few names that are similar to others. I change a few but others I don't care too much about.

I don't even know what Asheron is.
A3iL3r0n
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States2196 Posts
October 29 2009 22:38 GMT
#9
Well, let me congratulate you on having great English. I know a little bit of Spanish, but would never even be able to write something like you wrote in another language.

If you want to write in the fantasy genre, you need to read other novels in the fantasy genre. This will help you avoid of bunch of cliches off the bat, and you will be able to figure out what you want to add to the genre. There is no good writing without reading.
My psychiatrist says I have deep-seated Ragneuroses :(
DustBowl
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States49 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-29 22:40:23
October 29 2009 22:39 GMT
#10
IMO there's really no point in devoting so much time to something like this unless you plan to at least TRY and get it published. Like even in an independent way: distributing it among your friends and family. Writing, first and foremost, is form of entertainment and I don't think it's really possible to write something worthwhile solely for your own amusement, unless it's a journal or something. I mean, have you ever read anything written by a schizophrenic, something written entirely for the author's amusement? It ends up being vague and convoluted, and entirely too boring.

I think your writing is decent but given just that short passage you can't really get a feel for the plot, which should always be your first concern. Maybe you could edit your OP and let us know a little more. As for advice, I'm going to have to side with Fontong in that you should try and make your writing a bit more concise. Remember the golden rule of science fiction: the less made up words the better. If you've ever read Dune for example, it's amazing how clearly Herbert's writing is given the completely original setting of his novel. He puts the emphasis on characters and plot rather than on technology and "alien life" which makes for a more grounded novel (that is, it's easier to relate to). So I guess the BEST advice I can comfortably give you is just to read and reread the scifi classics... look for advice there. I'm sure you have you own list of personal favorites which have inspired you so just study those hard. I'd actually like to know some of your influences tbh because some of your ideas kind of remind me of the Hyperion Cantos. Good luck to you!

Edit: well it looks like a lot of people beat me to what I was trying to relate... o well
IskatuMesk
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada969 Posts
October 29 2009 22:46 GMT
#11
I have a private audience that reads my work but they don't really provide me in-depth critique on stuff like the writing style, the grammar, ect. But I write mostly for myself. It's a world I have worked on for virtually my entire life. The challenge is bringing this world into words. I am a native English speaker but my history is a total trainwreck. I never had the opportunity to learn English in school, everything I know is self-taught. The novel passes off well for the average reader, but I don't want it to be average. I want it to be the best it can be, to represent the world as strongly as possible.

I haven't read anything for a long time, namely because of my mental problems. I have tried to focus exclusively on my work. Only when Dawn of War came out did I even discover Warhammer, for example. Only when the LOTR movies came out did I hear about that fantasy setting. I want to read more but I'm still trying to recover from depression and it's very hard for me to focus on anything.

TOA's older writing, the piece I posted, is largely inspired by James Clavelle's "Shogun". It was the largest novel I read, and it largely inspired my original writing style. As time progressed and I began correcting a huge number of issues in my style and grammar, it changed into something unique.

The plot is deep and intricate. I like a plot to take a while to blossom and for every piece of information to be savored and used to its fullest, to bring the world to life around the reader gradually. The beginning is the hardest part for this because I don't want to tell the reader too much too fast, but I want the reader to know that this is a different world; there is no humans, no politics, things are very different.

I personally think that with this writing I tried too hard to attain that level of alienation. But it's hard for me to tell that, because it's my world; I know everything already. And I haven't been able to get a level of feedback on that particular point that helps me know where to go next.
Railxp
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Hong Kong1313 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-29 23:14:13
October 29 2009 23:05 GMT
#12
I'd like to apologize in advance for being discouraging. Obviously criticizing is a lot easier than actually writing =p. And yada yada personal opinion from one of kabillion internet usernames.

Clich
Sci-fi is an incredibly diverse and narrow field at the same time, in that SO much has been written, and yet so much of it is cliche. Now I don't know what brilliant plot devices you have down the road, but so far, just by reading the first four lines, I would pigeon hole it in my mind as yet another "made to be an emotionless weapon of mass destruction gone too human" type story. My palms uncontrollably rise to my face and you've already lost me because fairly or unfairly, I've already made that jump in conclusion.

Too much vocab:
As Triple7 points out, xkcd had it spot on. Lay off some of the vocabulary, too many names, too many unfamiliar words that I have to figure out how to pronounce in too short a time, not enough memory.

Passive Tense:
1) Ctrl-F your writing for the words "was/were/is/are"
2) Replace all of it with less boring verb
3) ???
4) Profit!
Note: I've read much worse, and you are not THAT guilty of this, less passive tense never hurt. Exception is when you want to connote powerlessness so you have stuff done to the character, rather than them being interesting and doing stuff. This really made my early writing much better.

You might like to read better advice from:
http://www.archetypewriting.com/resources/resources.htm

Also, if you have idle time, googling "science fiction cliches" will pull up A LOT of somewhat-funny nerd humor.




~\(。◕‿‿◕。)/~,,,,,,,,>
IskatuMesk
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada969 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-29 23:26:56
October 29 2009 23:14 GMT
#13
made to be an emotionless weapon of mass destruction gone too human


Tee hee. So far off. Unfortunately one of the things I'm working on in the beginning is bringing the other characters into play better... because Aumus isn't the focus of the story. That is not actually the exact beginning of the novel, there's a portion I'm working on before it. But it's not ready to show yet and this is part of my biggest concern, is how I'm going to fix this disaster.

I'm not sure. Should I rewrite the entire beginning from scratch?

I realize sci-fi is a pretty gigantic and overly-infested genre. One of the reasons I've tried to keep to myself.

/e

Also realize I don't know what things like "passive tense" actually mean. That's the kind of stuff I never had the opportunity to learn.
Railxp
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Hong Kong1313 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-29 23:38:36
October 29 2009 23:37 GMT
#14
passive tense vs active tense

"she was running slowly" vs "she ran slowly"
"he was trying to get a headshot with his blaster" vs "he aimed for the head"

sentence 1 is really boring to read, sentence 2 is much more engaging.

Quick Google for better explanation/examples:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/15981438/Tensing-Up-Active-vs-Passive-Tense

ps: glad to know my assumption is wrong =p
~\(。◕‿‿◕。)/~,,,,,,,,>
IskatuMesk
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada969 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-30 00:11:25
October 29 2009 23:42 GMT
#15
Aaah okay. I don't think I abused that a terrible amount, it doesn't sound like something I had a lot of problems with but I'll keep an eye out for it.

The story is pretty ridiculous after a while. If you like the kind of scale that was present in Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann you would love this.

Though there isn't any giant robots, much less giant robots throwing galaxies like shurikens complete with a chink sound.

What I want to ask now is advice on whether or not to totally redo the beginning.

Although the story doesn't focus on Aumus, he is an important character and the events surrounding him take place just before the main plot begins. I used Aumus as a way to introduce readers to the Zegredark and their world.

The novel focuses more on a character named Mauu, and she is introduced pretty short into the novel (within 10 or so pages). However, she doesn't have any major roles until a little later on when things really get moving.

The problem is that I want it to be clear that the focus is on her from the beginning, but since the novel starts with Aumus, that's a little difficult (and also because she isn't really doing anything exciting for the first while).

Thus when I said I was writing a part before this segment, that's the part when I first introduce Mauu (and incidentally another minor character). This part is very short and very simple right now. I've also worked to give her little portions throughout Aumus' fairly lengthy segment (along with another character that appears later). After that the transition is pretty smooth and I'm fairly happy with how it is, although it's next on the chopping block for my revision process and I'm sure it will see a lot of changes as well.

Should I opt to just fill in that new part and leave things as they are, or opt for a total rebuild of the introduction and just try to tell the world from her perspective?

What's killing me is that if I knew how to do it, I could rewrite the beginning in a much better form then what it is right now.
A3iL3r0n
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States2196 Posts
October 30 2009 00:43 GMT
#16
On October 30 2009 08:42 IskatuMesk wrote:
Aaah okay. I don't think I abused that a terrible amount, it doesn't sound like something I had a lot of problems with but I'll keep an eye out for it.

The story is pretty ridiculous after a while. If you like the kind of scale that was present in Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann you would love this.

Though there isn't any giant robots, much less giant robots throwing galaxies like shurikens complete with a chink sound.

What I want to ask now is advice on whether or not to totally redo the beginning.

Although the story doesn't focus on Aumus, he is an important character and the events surrounding him take place just before the main plot begins. I used Aumus as a way to introduce readers to the Zegredark and their world.

The novel focuses more on a character named Mauu, and she is introduced pretty short into the novel (within 10 or so pages). However, she doesn't have any major roles until a little later on when things really get moving.

The problem is that I want it to be clear that the focus is on her from the beginning, but since the novel starts with Aumus, that's a little difficult (and also because she isn't really doing anything exciting for the first while).

Thus when I said I was writing a part before this segment, that's the part when I first introduce Mauu (and incidentally another minor character). This part is very short and very simple right now. I've also worked to give her little portions throughout Aumus' fairly lengthy segment (along with another character that appears later). After that the transition is pretty smooth and I'm fairly happy with how it is, although it's next on the chopping block for my revision process and I'm sure it will see a lot of changes as well.

Should I opt to just fill in that new part and leave things as they are, or opt for a total rebuild of the introduction and just try to tell the world from her perspective?

What's killing me is that if I knew how to do it, I could rewrite the beginning in a much better form then what it is right now.

(lol. where is Chef when you need him?)

You didn't post enough of the story for us to make that decision, not that we should be involved in the way you are asking anyway.

It needs a total rewrite. If you can't tell by yourself what is interesting and what isn't, no one's criticism will help you. Just look at it. It's boring. Make it more engaging, re-arrange the plot however you need to, to make it feel right. The "how to" part of making it good writing is what will formulate your style.
My psychiatrist says I have deep-seated Ragneuroses :(
IskatuMesk
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada969 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-30 01:22:19
October 30 2009 01:21 GMT
#17
Yeah. I just like to think outloud, though. You gentlemen's feedback is most appreciated.

Even if I don't do it right away, I intend to totally rewrite the introduction from Mauu's perspective instead. Perhaps I'll post it when it's complete, though that may be a while from now.

It's not the first time I've made a dramatic decision for this book, and it probably won't be the last.
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