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NeverGG
United Kingdom5399 Posts
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Well whatever happens it was good experience, right?
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I don't think it has much to with us not caring. This month has just been a complete dump for eSports imo. No leagues, and only the UPC/map tests which not many people actually care about. I'm sure there will be more people that will pay attention when the PL starts up again!
don't quit nevergg we love you <3
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No matter what you decide, your posts, pictures, and projects have all been things that I've greatly enjoyed my entire time hear on tl. Thanks for everything you've done and I hope you find some good motivation :D
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just so you know, ive ALWAYS enjoyed your work.
never gg, nevergg 
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NeverGG, you bring at least 30% of the awesome that makes up TL. I usually don't comment in your threads, but I will post in every one now on. I truly admire you for doing something not for your own reward, but just because you love it enough to do it. That's true passion, and I don't think there is one of us here who doesn't deeply appreciate your passion for our "sport".
As for what projects to choose, do what you can and are willing to do! I'm sure almost all the things you do have the full support of TLnetters everywhere!
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don't give up, your'e still creating quality work in my eyes!
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I've always enjoy the projects you've brought to tl, as a member that's new to the tl scene. You're work are always worthwhile to read and alot of your pictures are really rendered in great quality. I hope u find ur motivation to continue.
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Calgary25977 Posts
Pics of cute asian girls = many hits.
Seriously.
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NeverGG
United Kingdom5399 Posts
On September 28 2009 12:56 Chill wrote:
Pics of cute asian girls = many hits.
Seriously.
Usually yes, but my recent blog of 2NE1 and SNSD photos barely topped 20 comments. I was really shocked since boobs/legs usually do = many comments.
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On September 28 2009 12:56 Chill wrote:
Pics of cute asian girls = many hits.
Seriously.
Chill is the moderator of the strategy forum for a reason.
I'd advise you not to make your choice based on what TL says. And if you wondered, everyone on TL appreciates your work. I think its something you need to decide for yourself, don't do something you don't want to do because of us. I appreciate everything you do, but I don't want you to be unhappy even if it means we get less amazing pictures, great articles, and interviews.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
....why do comments matter so much to you? Are you doing it for personal gratification? Look at the views on your threads before you martyr please. I like and appreciate your work but i refuse to post in your threads because if it isn't a glowing review you become offended to your core. I know a lot of others feel this way and have commented on it before. You should be doing this because you enjoy doing it for YOU - not anyone else.
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I normally don't post on your threads but I just want to say that I really enjoyed your pictures and your contributions!
Even though I think that your work for TL is just awesome, I'm not sure if staying in Korea is the best option and it would really suck if staying there was a mistake.
But if you decide to leave Korea, I hope you will remember the times as good memories, and not as some kind of disaster because I'm sure your work did a lot of good for us.
Good luck!
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On September 28 2009 13:10 Kennigit wrote:
....why do comments matter so much to you? Are you doing it for personal gratification? Look at the views on your threads before you martyr please. I like and appreciate your work but i refuse to post in your threads because if it isn't a glowing review you become offended to your core. I know a lot of others feel this way and have commented on it before. You should be doing this because you enjoy doing it for YOU - not anyone else.
err...im just speculating here, but:
she puts a lot of effort and into her work. i think it can be a little demoralizing to get less than 20 comments on a thread. nothing wrong with asking for a little recognition.
edit: nvm, i thought you were talking about the quantity of the posts on the first read 
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On September 28 2009 13:17 lighter wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2009 13:10 Kennigit wrote:
....why do comments matter so much to you? Are you doing it for personal gratification? Look at the views on your threads before you martyr please. I like and appreciate your work but i refuse to post in your threads because if it isn't a glowing review you become offended to your core. I know a lot of others feel this way and have commented on it before. You should be doing this because you enjoy doing it for YOU - not anyone else. err...im just speculating here, but: she puts a lot of effort and into her work. i think it can be a little demoralizing to get less than 20 comments on a thread. nothing wrong with asking for a little recognition. edit: nvm, i thought you were talking about the quantity of the posts on the first read
I think i addressed the issue with people commenting. I don't want to write "GREAT JOB" everytime someone posts something - i'm about making thinks better through constructive criticism. Ask great as nevergg's work is, she's made it clear many times that she doesn't find that acceptable.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
when my threads dont get many replies i also get really pissed off
good thing that never happens LOL
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51416 Posts
On September 28 2009 13:10 Kennigit wrote:
....why do comments matter so much to you? Are you doing it for personal gratification? Look at the views on your threads before you martyr please. I like and appreciate your work but i refuse to post in your threads because if it isn't a glowing review you become offended to your core. I know a lot of others feel this way and have commented on it before. You should be doing this because you enjoy doing it for YOU - not anyone else.
This.
I have been working for the site for the past 2 1/2 years and what physical rewards have I gotten out of it? None at all.
I work here because I love the stuff that I do. I may be a donkey in the staff forums but I still love contributing.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
this all stems from the other shit nevergg has whined about on her other blogs
keep hittin the gym nevergg, build some self confidence then u will find gratification from whatever u love no matter what other ppl say/think
edit: i mean seriously, ur decision whether to leave korea or not depends on the feedback u get on tl.net?
heres the facts: ppl on tl.net like and enjoy ur work but they dont give a fuck enough to post OMG NEVERGG UR THE GREATEST every god damn time....and nothing u do or say is gunna change it. so either a. keep investing your time/$ into it because you like it or b. don't? no one is gunna heartbroken if you stop....that doesn't mean they didnt like ur photos/writeups though
OH NOES NAL_RA RETIRED FUCK IM SOOOO SAD
oh n/m it's aight he still around chillin in those funny suitz in the commentator booth aite aite
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3861 Posts
On September 28 2009 13:42 Rekrul wrote:
build some self confidence then u will find gratification from whatever u love no matter what other ppl say/think
THIS.
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On September 28 2009 13:42 Rekrul wrote:
this all stems from the other shit nevergg has whined about on her other blogs
keep hittin the gym nevergg, build some self confidence then u will find gratification from whatever u love no matter what other ppl say/think
edit: i mean seriously, ur decision whether to leave korea or not depends on the feedback u get on tl.net?
heres the facts: ppl on tl.net like and enjoy ur work but they dont give a fuck enough to post OMG NEVERGG UR THE GREATEST every god damn time....and nothing u do or say is gunna change it. so either a. keep investing your time/$ into it because you like it or b. don't? no one is gunna heartbroken if you stop....that doesn't mean they didnt like ur photos/writeups though
OH NOES NAL_RA RETIRED FUCK IM SOOOO SAD
oh n/m it's aight he still around chillin in those funny suitz in the commentator booth aite aite
I agree 100% with this never. We all love your work and I've posted thanks or nice pics or nice articles more than once. It just gets to the point where we expect it and that our thanks are implied simply in the number of views not so much as number of comments.
That being said I don't like the sounds of this at all
I have to make a choice in January whether to stay in Korea or to go home. It's very heavily dependant upon Teamliquid and if I still feel as if I'm doing something worthwhile for everyone.
If your main criteria for staying in korea is making a bunch of internet nerds happy with pictures and articles about starcraft I think it's time to move on to something that YOU love not what all of us love. I'm envious of all of the people who've been to korea because of what you got to experience with e-sports and the korean culture, I'd absolutely love to have that experience for a year or two but I doubt it will happen in the near future.
Live Love and Be Happy don't Stagnate Regret and Settle
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Katowice25012 Posts
I've always admired how much effort you put into the whole process of going to matches, getting shoots, and being involved in the community.
Trying to please people on the internet is a pretty quick path to burning out though.
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Oh Rekrul, you are arrogant and that's fine but why are you always so right?
Anyways I like your work NeverGG but the opinion of a small community website shouldn't really affect what you base your entire life on.
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United States4796 Posts
FYI NeverGG.
Your work is appreciated. It takes time for the netizens of Fomos to get to know you/your style.
Don't give up. :3
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
Even though I don't comment much on konadora and smix's translations I really did enjoy them. Sometimes there really isn't too much to comment about because the thread is self-explanatory. I also don't want to spam good job when 10 people above me already posted something similar. But it does suck when good threads dies when no one comments on them. I hope konadora and smix didn't give up translating because of that.
Maybe TL should have a section for quality work like translations/photo shoots so the thread will be visible longer. I didn't see the SNSD/2NE1 blog until today and I visit TL everyday.
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Well I can't say much other then to repeat whats been said. No one can do what you do NeverGG for TL.net. TL.net won't be as good without your work that for sure, but i'm sure you already know that. Still none of us can tell you what to do with your life. If you enjoy what your doing keep doing it. If you don't thats fine too. you have to do what makes you happy.
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Physician
United States4146 Posts
If you do not give up the crowds
you won't find your way to oneness.
If you do not drop your self
you won't find your true worth.
If you do not offer all you
have to teamliquid.net,
you will live this life free of that
pain which makes it worth living.
- Shaikh Abu Saeed Abil Kheir
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On September 28 2009 15:27 Physician wrote:
If you do not give up the crowds
you won't find your way to oneness.
If you do not drop your self
you won't find your true worth.
If you do not offer all you
have to teamliquid.net,
you will live this life free of that
pain which makes it worth living.
- Shaikh Abu Saeed Abil Kheir
Imho this is a phase that many people (and artists especially will empathise with this) will pass through. Sometimes when people don't ask me to play in their chamber groups (as a violist/vlnist) I may feel unappreciated or inept but passion is something fuelled from within, whatever motivation you get from the people around you is a bonus.
Stereotypically the guy way of treating such a dysthmia would be "lets get a beer and get over it"-sorta way and the girl way (which is unfortunately underepresented here) would be to lend a listening ear. Reality has it such that TL is full of male nerds like us who may rage for all of a day or two after getting trolled or DTdropped (no flame pls) =p
anyway, all the best for your future projects. havent had (and hope to have) the chance to submit entries for your photo discussion threads though =p
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The korean BW scene has just been the same answers/interview kinda stuff for the last 5 years. We know everything about the lifestyle and we can anticipate every interview Q and A without reading it. It's just not too exciting anymore. You are a great photographer and that is awesome because it takes skill and talent to pull off but it's just not the most exciting coverage anymore. I've fallen outta love with the Korean sc politics. Personality has been taken from the players. The games are good but there isn't any drama I guess. Korean BW needs more drama. If you could arrange grudgematches that would be sick.
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I'm sure TL appreciates your work more than you feel at the moment, but people just aren't very vocal at showing it.
How goes the saying? You don't appreciate something you have until you lose it. For fucks sake, we wouldn't know what half the progamers look like (in real life I mean and not on a shitty 300k stream with their mouth open illuminated by the sickly CRT glow) without your picture threads.
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Osaka27139 Posts
I'm not going to add anything that I haven't already told you on MSN, but I'll repeat it if you like.
About fomos - You will never ever find a nicer place that TL to post your work. Korean netizens will eat you alive. If you are going to gauge your success on them, quit now. Instead, the only people you should be concerned about is the people that work at fomos. Do not do your internship quietly. Internships are for you to learn, so talk to them every time about what you are doing, what they expect, and how the system works. It does no good for you to complain to TL about your article being bumped.
About motivation - In the end, it has to come from within. Hobbies very rarely have external factors that motivate you. If you are looking at TL, fomos, or other communities to keep you going, you are looking in the wrong place. They can help, but you have to want to do it.
About staying in Korea - Reflect upon the last couple years of your life. What have you learned. What is there left to learn from this relatively narrow environment that you are working in. How much more time do you need before you have exhausted (or considerably slowed) in your growth? If there is still room to grow, then stay. If not, you will just end up doing the same old thing and getting frustrated.
About TL - I like your ideas, but you cannot expect every one of them to work out. I could have told you that a fan cafe is doomed from the start, just because of the nature of the activity. It is like screaming down a well because there is no connection. On the other hand, messaegs to progamers is a huge hit, and for very good reasons. Don't get mad when something doesn't work. Just try something else.
Make a plan - If you are just mindlessly going to events, it is not rewarding. You need a series of goals (which I know you have made before). They should involve events, but also skill growth, exposure, and opening new paths for your work. When you make this list, you can be motivated to accomplish things regardless of what other people think. If it is a good list, it will also give you avenues to try different angles if one particular goal becomes frustrating or unrewarding.
TL has always been supportive of your work, but if you are going to measure the appreciation by comments or views, you are looking the wrong way. Find satisfaction within yourself and it will show in your work.
Trying to please people on the internet is a pretty quick path to burning out though.
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9070 Posts
Most of the TLers are just "free riding". There is nothing uncommon with that, since the whole service that TL is could be seen as a public good - to be part of it, you dont need to contribute in any way.
I'm sure your work is highly valued, but because you are so hardworking and consistent, the regular TL netizen begins to see your effort, no matter how great and special it is, as a regular feature on this site. You are in worse situation than kona and smix, cause in some way they are replaceable for what they do and you are not. I'm sure if there was a NeverGG[arnc] + Show Spoiler +fake neggy lol everyone got that?
I admire everything you are doing for the community and I wish I could help you with more than doing my regular D/D+ graphics shit. But I wont say "oh neggy, stay!" cause for me its pretty obvious as well that a big part of your work gets underappreciated and the reason for that is not the lack of quality or contend.
"Find satisfaction within yourself and it will show in your work". Thats Mani right there and not Nietzsche of some sort. I think thats the best way to look at your future projects. But whatever you decide to do - you have my support
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i dont think you can honestly enjoy your work if you need other people to enjoy it for you. maybe its time to pack it in and do something you can truly enjoy without other people needing to tell you its good
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
get us naked pictures of snsd and i will praise u for life, nevergg
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On September 28 2009 13:10 Kennigit wrote:
....why do comments matter so much to you? Are you doing it for personal gratification? Look at the views on your threads before you martyr please. I like and appreciate your work but i refuse to post in your threads because if it isn't a glowing review you become offended to your core. I know a lot of others feel this way and have commented on it before. You should be doing this because you enjoy doing it for YOU - not anyone else.
Womp womp.
Nudes of korean women and yourself would help, I promise.
edit; Oh, and of lilsusie, too.
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51416 Posts
On September 28 2009 20:07 Rekrul wrote:
get us naked pictures of snsd and i will praise u for life, nevergg
l
l
lollolololololol
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On September 28 2009 13:06 NeverGG wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2009 12:56 Chill wrote:
Pics of cute asian girls = many hits.
Seriously. Usually yes, but my recent blog of 2NE1 and SNSD photos barely topped 20 comments. I was really shocked since boobs/legs usually do = many comments.
But did you check how many views you've had? I personally clicked that thread at least once before I fab (too much info lol).
I just feel awkward posting something in a thread made by a girl after that. I'm sure there are many others like me out there.
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i onno but this blog got a lot of replies. is that good?
just follow rekrul's advice - keep doing photos without the consent of replies, do it for fun, not cause some people on a web board post replies. if it's not fun then fuck it, find something else. not really a big dilemma imo.
gl hf
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I think you are in a bit of a tough spot here... Korean netizens are known to be badass, and unfortunately they are the main audience for Esports related stuff.
Side note, I went on the Korean Gom site after the no season 4 drama just to compare the number of hits the Kor vods get vs. the Eng ones and it ain't pretty. It really makes one see how small the foreigner scene really is, even though Koreans only make about 1/3 of ICCUP. It is of course because the foreigner fanbase does not include crazy fangirls. And, not to insult anything/one some considerable part of your work seems fangirl-oriented. We all appreciate your work but it is a little bit off target imho.
Do not despair, NeverGG, you got an additional 0.7 seconds of fame on Korean national television.
+ Show Spoiler +NeverGG appeared in one of the PL all-stars vods. There was some intro made up of a collage of random images and she is in it. Don't remember which game though...
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Though I hate to jump on the "mods are right!" bandwagon, they've made the most helpful and probably accurate posts in this thread. Remember that whether we choose to post in your threads or not, the TeamLiquid community greatly appreciates everything that you've done, not only for us, but for e-sports as a whole. Just because the netizens, who are known quantities in the douche bar, flame a lot because your articles aren't in moonspeak doesn't mean that they aren't appreciated.
But Manifesto and rekrul have a point - you need to do what feels right for yourself, not as a slave to a bunch of internet nerds .
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I was thinking about what to say but it appears Rekrul has already spread his wisdom in this thread and I couldn't have said it better. ^__^
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Without reading the responses because I have little time and I think this post needs a reply immidiately:
NeverGG, I appreciate your work _so_ much. I'm astounded by your inventiveness in finding new and interesting projects, by your immense qualities as a photographer, which are inspiring to me with my little sister wanting to become a professional photographer, and by your love and dedication to the Korean progamers. We all have some times when things look bad, and it is real hard for people from outside to help you then. The only advice I should give you is: take the time to find out what exactly is bad for you in your current situation. Because, when you know what it is, your subconsciousness and your feelings will know what is making you feel bad, and it will stop making the good things worse.
My personal hunch is that your work with fomos is making you down. And if you don't mind me being frank, I thought that fomos was not the best place for you to work. I envision you working a lot better with daily esports. I'm not sure that I can support my hunch with a rational explanation, so take it with a grain of salt.
Lastly, I'd like to comment on your projects specifically. The fan cafés are awesome. However, the idea of a fan café is a distinctly unwestern thought, and therefore rather unusual and strange to the majority of the TL community. I think with sufficient dedication, endurance, and a bit of marketing, they will become however a great success, creating a real standing for us with the Korean progamers (Violet's response strengthens my thoughts on this one. He was especially pleased to hear that the first foreign fan café was dedicated to him!), and creating a place for more personal fanship, which is at the moment a little lacking and unorganised at TL. I think the fan cafés provide in a distinct TL way for a need.
The personal cards for Backho and Jaedong are brilliant, and I think that if used sparsely they will be one of the most appreciated things you can do here. People love to give support to progamers in need, but it is necessary to identify correctly who needs it.
100 cards projects, messages from --- projects: Now while I think these projects are fantastic, to be fair I've got a gut feeling that you should lessen on these a little. You've got so many of them running that it's easy to get overworked. Still, 100 cards for a team is awesome, and the messages from --- create a real connection between the progamers and the foreign community. Their worth is indisputable, but you are much more worth as a integral part of TL, with your photos and your captainship of hte fan cafés. I'm not sure how this can be solved, but maybe you can leave the brunt of the work to someone else?
In the end, I've given you too much advice. Still I can't leave without giving my thoughts about the demographics of TL: I'm pretty sure many people here are strongly introvert or very shy. I assume this because a game like Starcraft is inherently appealing to introvert persons. Besides, and now I might be going a bit far, the Koreans themselves have a introvert and shy culture, attracting those in the west who are that as well. Also, following a game already ten years old is not something the usual extravert person would do. All I'm saying is: that we don't comment much does not at all mean that we don't appreciate you, on the contrary. I think all of TL, even Rekrul in his own bastard way, loves you, loves your work, and depend on it! Whatever you do, we think it is awesome, because it is. But we are still likely to silently sit behind the pc, reading everything and adoring your work, but keeping silent about it, simply because it seems unnecessary to encourage someone who is already doing real good.
NeverGG, I'm a noob on these forums, and not even that much into starcraft. But I love this site and I love the progaming, and that all would only be possible with your dedicated, hard work. Please, please keep asking us for comments when you feel there is not enough, please make us work for your presents to us.
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On September 28 2009 16:00 MiniRoman wrote:
The korean BW scene has just been the same answers/interview kinda stuff for the last 5 years. We know everything about the lifestyle and we can anticipate every interview Q and A without reading it. It's just not too exciting anymore. You are a great photographer and that is awesome because it takes skill and talent to pull off but it's just not the most exciting coverage anymore. I've fallen outta love with the Korean sc politics. Personality has been taken from the players. The games are good but there isn't any drama I guess. Korean BW needs more drama. If you could arrange grudgematches that would be sick.
I think the best thing NeverGG can do (and has been doing) is highlight the players' personalities. The official (fomos, etc.) interviews tend to be pretty lifeless and repetitive, but things like photo shoots and the 안녕하세요 series really do show another side to the players.
Any spectator sport/game gets boring without storylines, so anything that helps with that is good for e-Sports.
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9070 Posts
On September 29 2009 04:46 SonuvBob wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2009 16:00 MiniRoman wrote:
The korean BW scene has just been the same answers/interview kinda stuff for the last 5 years. We know everything about the lifestyle and we can anticipate every interview Q and A without reading it. It's just not too exciting anymore. You are a great photographer and that is awesome because it takes skill and talent to pull off but it's just not the most exciting coverage anymore. I've fallen outta love with the Korean sc politics. Personality has been taken from the players. The games are good but there isn't any drama I guess. Korean BW needs more drama. If you could arrange grudgematches that would be sick. I think the best thing NeverGG can do (and has been doing) is highlight the players' personalities. The official (fomos, etc.) interviews tend to be pretty lifeless and repetitive, but things like photo shoots and the 안녕하세요 series really do show another side to the players. Any spectator sport/game gets boring without storylines, so anything that helps with that is good for e-Sports.
damn right, tell it to Vince
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I always love the photos you do, be sad if you left 
Hope you find something to re-spark the flames
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EPT
