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Arguments for gaming.

Blogs > Alur
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Alur
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Denmark3900 Posts
September 09 2009 07:04 GMT
#1
My school is arranging a "culture week", which involves a host of workshops you can ivolve yourself in - generic attempt at alternative education.

Now, there's a workshop centered around gaming, and what we're gonna do is create an environment where people can play video games. And the ambition is to make this a permanent part of the school, but many teachers don't like this idea. The general arguments being: "It's not educational" and "It's not good for the environment".

So teamliquid, i ask of you humbly to present arguments that could convince people that gaming might have social and/or educational value.



*****
AKA No can Dazzle | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlTpX7z3Pok
TL+ Member
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
September 09 2009 07:11 GMT
#2
lol treehuggers. "its not good for the environment!"

bite me.

I mean seriously wtf is this shit: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/05/online-poker-carbon-emission.php

makes no fucking sense.
Carefree
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States1571 Posts
September 09 2009 07:11 GMT
#3
Most games are simulations of some real world environment, so gaming is a relatively risk free way to experience such environments.
DebOnAire - 「 Bisu[Shield] 」
blabber
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States4448 Posts
September 09 2009 07:11 GMT
#4
depends on the game...

games like Halo and whatnot have no value whatsoever but a game like Professor Layton forces you to think outside the box to solve its puzzles, which I would imagine has some value
blabberrrrr
Alur
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Denmark3900 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-09 07:12:26
September 09 2009 07:12 GMT
#5
On September 09 2009 16:11 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
lol treehuggers. "its not good for the environment!"

bite me.

I mean seriously wtf is this shit: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/05/online-poker-carbon-emission.php

makes no fucking sense.


Yeah, my school is kinda big on the environment. Denmark lol.
AKA No can Dazzle | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlTpX7z3Pok
TL+ Member
Carthac
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States393 Posts
September 09 2009 07:12 GMT
#6
The fact that anyone, regardless of age/sex/gender/etc., can play alongside each other and play a game with someone they can help but view as an equal. Online games have been used for many physically deformed people to push themselves to becoming social in a way through general text, vent, voice chat, etc.

TLDR version: Everyone is equal on the internet
MamiyaOtaru
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States1687 Posts
September 09 2009 07:32 GMT
#7
On September 09 2009 16:11 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
lol treehuggers. "its not good for the environment!"

bite me.

I mean seriously wtf is this shit: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/05/online-poker-carbon-emission.php

makes no fucking sense.

I love it how this article is on the internet, which is using electricity and causing carbon emissions so I can read it
Kong John
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Denmark1020 Posts
September 09 2009 07:32 GMT
#8
Nice, what school is that?

I think alot of games can be rather educational, games like Europa Universalis 3 can teach alot about history, there is a complete mod out for this game (cant remember the name, ill look for it) that makes it very historically acurrate.

Ive been taught most of my english and my vast historical knowledge from games. Im not really sure what other lessons could be brought in. (Maybe EVE for math >.<)
This is real life, where nerds must battle!
Alur
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Denmark3900 Posts
September 09 2009 07:35 GMT
#9
Ørestad Gymnasium.
Feel free to include personal anecdotes about how gaming has helped you, like Kong John.
AKA No can Dazzle | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlTpX7z3Pok
TL+ Member
jonnyp
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States415 Posts
September 09 2009 07:37 GMT
#10
On September 09 2009 16:11 blabber wrote:
depends on the game...

games like Halo and whatnot have no value whatsoever but a game like Professor Layton forces you to think outside the box to solve its puzzles, which I would imagine has some value


decision making on the fly, team work, hand eye coordination, reflexes, even provides a method of socialization with peers. these are all pretty decent things that can come from halo "and whatnot"
The number of years it takes for the Internet to move past anything is way, way over 9000.
riptide
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
5673 Posts
September 09 2009 07:49 GMT
#11
As a language student, it has always impressed me that people from so many different dialects can come together and communicate at least on a basic level because of common in-game terms. It's not groundbreaking, but certainly interesting if you think about it.

I've actually been meaning to research this phenomenon for a while, just haven't got down to it yet.
AdministratorSKT T1 | Masters of the Universe
caldo149
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States469 Posts
September 09 2009 07:58 GMT
#12
Most games have a bit of educational value to them, as they are all generally a type of problem-solving thing. Games like Starcraft poses a rather complex problem while games like Tekken are a bit less complex in nature. The process of learning to play a new game is quite educational.

MMOs are all social games that usually encourage interaction between players for maximum benefit.
In fact, any multiplayer game is a decent social experience. (ie racing, fighting, sports, etc.) People get to share the fun and have some fun competition. Over time, people can get to know each other's styles and get to know each other a little better in that regard.
Hellions are my homeboys
lazz
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Australia3119 Posts
September 09 2009 07:59 GMT
#13
On September 09 2009 16:11 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
lol treehuggers. "its not good for the environment!"

bite me.

I mean seriously wtf is this shit: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/05/online-poker-carbon-emission.php

makes no fucking sense.

oh god please tell me that's a parody. hippies dont understand the concept of opportunity cost..
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
September 09 2009 08:04 GMT
#14
I'd use more strategy/RPG type games. Something like Spore or Civ might be good. A lot of these games simply teach you how to think and create new brain connections, whereas more passive activities like watching TV/movies generally require less brain work.

You might try showing Storyteller's WCG documentary with the brain activity stuff on Xellos.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
Manifesto7
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Osaka27177 Posts
September 09 2009 08:28 GMT
#15
Showing them civipedia is a nice start.
ModeratorGodfather
NeverGG *
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United Kingdom5399 Posts
September 09 2009 08:32 GMT
#16
Citing games like Phoenix Wright might also be a good idea - it makes you think more than your average FPS or platformer. Anything that involves a good deal of puzzle solving can't be argued as not being *somewhat* educational.
우리 행운의 모양은 여러개지만 행복의 모양은 하나
Kong John
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Denmark1020 Posts
September 09 2009 09:37 GMT
#17
On September 09 2009 16:35 Alur wrote:
Ørestad Gymnasium.
Feel free to include personal anecdotes about how gaming has helped you, like Kong John.


An old friend of mine goes there :D

I find it hard to justify playing games like halo or CS, but sim games (not the sims) and puzzle games could be really nice to try out there. The problem with sim games is that they take quite a while though, so they wouldnt really be that great for this project.

But there still is a lot of other games that could be great for this. I really hope your project goes well!
This is real life, where nerds must battle!
minus_human
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
4784 Posts
September 09 2009 12:38 GMT
#18
Here you go
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=87652
Thats_The_Spirit
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Netherlands138 Posts
September 09 2009 12:46 GMT
#19
Show them this:
http://www.scientificblogging.com/news_articles/play_tetris_get_smarter_reading_science_helps_too
A recent study showing improved brain efficiency and grey matter increase after playing tetris. They let 26 adolescent girls play tetris for three monts / 30 minutes a day, and compared it to a control group. Measurements were made before and after with a structural and functional MRI.


On September 09 2009 16:12 Carthac wrote:
The fact that anyone, regardless of age/sex/gender/etc., can play alongside each other and play a game with someone they can help but view as an equal. Online games have been used for many physically deformed people to push themselves to becoming social in a way through general text, vent, voice chat, etc.

TLDR version: Everyone is equal on the internet


This is not always a good thing. Situations occur where some 30 yr old guy makes fun of/ insults/ uses horrible language towards another user in a game, not realising the other user is only a 9 yr old kid.
Alur
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Denmark3900 Posts
September 09 2009 13:49 GMT
#20
Thanks for contributing.
AKA No can Dazzle | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlTpX7z3Pok
TL+ Member
QuanticHawk
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States32157 Posts
September 09 2009 20:48 GMT
#21
Portal!!!

Any kind of thinking game that doesn't emphasize twitching, excessive clicking etc... that's about the only thing you could make a reasonable argument for.
PROFESSIONAL GAMER - SEND ME OFFERS TO JOIN YOUR TEAM - USA USA USA
beetlelisk
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Poland2276 Posts
September 12 2009 02:15 GMT
#22
I think you'll find this useful but I'll add the rest later, I need a break ;P



From Polish weekly magazine "Wprost" (literally it means "Straight")

10 myths about computer games

+ Show Spoiler +
They are reason children become aggressive, lose ability to learn with traditional methods, stop sustaining social relations and fall into addiction in the end. This is rather common belief about computer games.
But such an image of computer games players has nothing in common with the reality. We refute 10 myths concerning computer games.




1)
CHILDREN PLAY THE MOST

The biggest group of players aren't crazy teenagers but 35 year old adults who play for 12 years - it results from researches published in "American Journal of Preventive Medicine". (...)




2)
GIRLS AND WOMEN DON'T LIKE GAMES

94% of girls uses this form of entertainment in the USA. Some games like The Sims (among others) are the most popular among ~30 year old women. According to "Software Association of America", the biggest association of computer games users, women above 18 years old are 33% of players whereas boys under age of 17 are only 18% of this group. (...)




3)
GAMES ADDICT

Keith Bakker, boss of Smith & Jones Center in Amsterdam, the only European clinic treating addiction to computer games states that 95% of people coming to him don't have addiction symptoms.
When he has started his business in 2006 he was using typical behavioral psychotherapies, used in treatment of alcoholism or addiction to hazard. Those methods were efficient only to those who apart from compulsive playing were addicted to medicaments or drugs. But those people were less than 10% of patients. Bakker observed that people playing for a few hours a day have rather environmental difficulties not mental. Today program of "Smith & Jones" clinic focuses on developing social and communication skills in it's patients.




4)
GAMES ALIENATE

As much as 65% of people who play often, does it with friends - concludes report of "Pew Internet & American Life Project". Even games for a single person are often used by two - one person is controlling a character and the other one, looking over shoulder, gives tips.
Talmadge Wright, sociology professor from Loyola University Chicago has spent hundreds of hours playing online with other internauts. He discovered that even though opponents slaughter their armies in-game, they cooperate by determining rules of the game, explaining them to the beginner players and sometimes even befriend and meet in real life. (...)




5)
GAMES INCREASE AGGRESSION AND CAUSE INCREASE IN CRIME


6)
GAMES STUPEFY


7)
GAMES REDUCE SENSITIVITY


8)
GAMES ARE WASTE OF TIME


9)
GAMES ARE PRIMITIVE


10)
FREQUENT PLAYING LEADS TO A FUNCTIONAL ILLITERACY


wwww
beetlelisk
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Poland2276 Posts
September 12 2009 18:46 GMT
#23
BTW I've bolded almost all 4 last lines in games alienate because this part means TL for me

+ Show Spoiler +

5)
GAMES INCREASE AGGRESSION AND CAUSE INCREASE IN CRIME

Discussion on that topic has been started after shootings in American schools. It would the easiest way to blame computer games for that. In the meantime belief that shooting virtual enemies encourages to committing crime is as questionable as statement that murderer who has chopped his victim to pieces did it because he had been cutting meat for chops. Of course juvenile offenders from American schools were playing computer games but 97% of teenagers uses games in USA.
Only few had such an macabre idea. According to report prepared by American Health Department, main reason for crime among youth are emotional disorders and conflicts in the family, not influence of media.
“Lancet” magazine proves that nothing allows to state that long term expose of the youngest to violence induces committing crime. Results of researches that were connecting increased aggression with computer games haven’t determined if games increase aggression or if more aggressive people pick games up. There are confirmed researches proving that even monkeys distinguish between fight made for fun and real brawl though. Behaviour patterns most often acquired in home have bigger impact.
Only part of games includes violence scenes and producers warn those products are intended for people above 16 or 18 years old. Parents shouldn’t let those reach younger kids.
Violence has always been present in literature for children what is known by everyone who has read Grimm brothers’, Andersen’s or Perrault’s fairy tales. No one has had an idea to ban them.*




6)
GAMES STUPEFY

Researches done by James Paul Gee from University of Wisconsin, author of “Good Video Games + Good Learning” conclude that students that play frequently see mistakes not as loses but opportunity to improve. According to him players look for new, better solutions of problems and take challenges more willingly than others. They make and test hypotheses more often than others.

Researches done by professor Patricia Greenfiled from University of California, Los Angeles, published in "Science" have similar results. In her opinion the main reason causing Flynn effect, that is next generations IQ rise, are media including computer games. They enforce fast assimilation, analyze, and use of data. New games and development of technologies give players still new challenges.

Games develop older people’s cognitive skills too. And much more efficient than other training. It has been proven by Arthur Kramer, psychology professor from University of Illinois. Tests made earlier, using other methods of cognitive skills improvement has ended with virtual success – participants of experiments were accomplishing better results but it was soon discovered they just got better at solving test exercises. In case of people playing “Rise of Nations” where player’s tasks is developing a city, hiring people, making and keeping an army and expanding territory, it was different. After 24 hours spent during a week to develop an empire volunteers were coping better with doing few different tasks at the same time, change focus from one task to another better, had better short-term and random-access memory.




7)
GAMES REDUCE SENSITIVITY

Team of scientists from Helsinki, Finland, was examining people playing James Bond 007: NightFire with psychology tests and Electromyography. Both methods have shown that all players felt uneasiness each time they’ve killed virtual opponent regardless of how long they’ve been playing.
“There is no proof that long-lasting playing of games with scenes of violence reduces emotional sensitivity” – summed researches scientists in a work
“James Bond’s Psychophysiology: emotional reaction to violence in games”.







*
Who has seen The Brothers Grimm? Horse that ate 1 kid, mud monster that caught and put like 5 year old girl in itself?
Little Mermaid is adaptation of Andersen's fairy tale and original, among other things didn't have happy ending.
The only problem is no one sane reads aloud those originals when his/her kids go to sleep in XXI century.

I'm not feeling like overbolding at all haha..and I want to see grandmas playing Rise of Nations

7) isn't easy with games like CounterStrike or Carmageddon around ;P
wwww
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