• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 22:54
CET 04:54
KST 12:54
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies3ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !11Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2
StarCraft 2
General
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced! What's the best tug of war? The Grack before Christmas Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies
Tourneys
OSC Season 13 World Championship $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship $100 Prize Pool - Winter Warp Gate Masters Showdow Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement
Brood War
General
Klaucher discontinued / in-game color settings How soO Began His ProGaming Dreams BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Recommended FPV games (post-KeSPA) BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[BSL21] WB & LB Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] LB SemiFinals - Saturday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Mechabellum Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread How Does UI/UX Design Influence User Trust? Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
National Diversity: A Challe…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1118 users

Fun Math Problem

Blogs > EtherealDeath
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
EtherealDeath
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States8366 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-27 04:08:26
August 27 2009 02:46 GMT
#1
Yea... not sure of the solution to this.

We have a bounded interval, say [a,b]. The values of a and b are not particularly important. Let's say we are using [0,1000].

Within this bounded interval are some set number of other bounded intervals, which may or may not intersect with other bounded intervals. For example, one possible set of intervals is {[1,100],[2,36],[45,798]}.

From each bounded interval (not counting [0,1000]), you must pick exactly one point so that the least distance between two points is maximized.

What alogorithm would solve this?

EDIT: Attempt at clarification.

Basically he nth triangular number is the number of possible point pairs, each of which has a corresponding distance. For example, say we had [0,1] and [988,1000]. Then we would pick the points 0 and 1000, yielding a distance of 1000, because that choice of points means that the distance between the two closest points is maximized. We could have choise 1 and 988, but the distance would be decreased, so it's not the optimum choice.

Another way of putting it is that you want to choose the points so that the two closest ones are as far apart as possible.

*
Saracen
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States5139 Posts
August 27 2009 02:52 GMT
#2
That's not fun at all!
Crunchums
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States11144 Posts
August 27 2009 02:52 GMT
#3
I do not understand your english
brood war for life, brood war forever
prOxi.swAMi
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Australia3091 Posts
August 27 2009 03:04 GMT
#4
You need to articulate this more clearly
Oh no
thoraxe
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States1449 Posts
August 27 2009 03:05 GMT
#5
Plz don't tell me this is 9th grade kiddie Math for you Chinese people?
Obama singing "Kick Ass" Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yghFBt-fXmw&feature=player_embedde
illu
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada2531 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-27 03:32:31
August 27 2009 03:32 GMT
#6
I am not sure if it is even a math problem, since the word "algorithm" is used. Other than that, I do not understand the problem.

Might as well type it in Chinese. =P
:]
blue_arrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
1971 Posts
August 27 2009 03:33 GMT
#7
On August 27 2009 12:05 thoraxe wrote:
Plz don't tell me this is 9th grade kiddie Math for you Chinese people?


8th grade
| MLIA | the weather sucks dick here
Maero
Profile Joined December 2007
349 Posts
August 27 2009 03:35 GMT
#8
just take the average? (e.g. (b+a)/2)

i probably don't understand the problem though, like everyone else
MamiyaOtaru
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States1687 Posts
August 27 2009 03:40 GMT
#9
He must think homework is fun
Leg[end]
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States241 Posts
August 27 2009 04:02 GMT
#10
On August 27 2009 11:46 EtherealDeath wrote:
Yea... not sure of the solution to this.

We have a bounded interval, say [a,b]. The values of a and b are not particularly important. Let's say we are using [0,1000].

Within this bounded interval are some number of other bounded intervals, which may or may not intersect with other bounded intervals.

From each bounded interval (not counting [0,1000]), you must pick one point from each bounded interval so that the least distance between two points is maximized.

What alogorithm would solve this?


The contrast between this thread's topic and its actual contents is staggering oo;
Legends Never Die ;;
EtherealDeath
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States8366 Posts
August 27 2009 04:06 GMT
#11
attempted to clarify.
EtherealDeath
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States8366 Posts
August 27 2009 04:07 GMT
#12
On August 27 2009 12:35 Maero wrote:
just take the average? (e.g. (b+a)/2)

i probably don't understand the problem though, like everyone else



That I know is definitely not the solution. Among other things the taking of the average makes no sense in that you would be picking one point, but there could many many different intervals, which would mean more than one point.
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9633 Posts
August 27 2009 04:28 GMT
#13
shouldnt it always be b-a? assuming we have infinitely many intervals.
Severedevil
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4839 Posts
August 27 2009 04:32 GMT
#14
Well, there's an obvious crappy algorithm.

It's easy to check whether you can pick points such that each pair is separated by a minimum distance of d. So you can do a binary search on d, and continue until you're as close to the exact answer as you're asked to get.

I'm looking for a better solution, but that will work.
My strategy is to fork people.
Muirhead
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States556 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-27 04:53:20
August 27 2009 04:49 GMT
#15
I do not know (or believe) that there is a terribly simple formula for the answer.

If I just had to write a computer program to find an exact answer, I would proceed inductively. Suppose that there are n intervals, and that I have a computer program that can find the answer given n-1 intervals.

The computer program (call it P) that solves for n-1 intervals would receive input of the form [a_1,b_1],[a_2,b_2],...,[a_{n-1},b_{n-1}] where the a_i are inputted in nondecreasing order.

Furthermore, suppose the computer program P would give me my answer as a function of a_1, assuming a_1 <= a_2 and that the other a_i and b_i are fixed. The function would be piecewise linear and therefore easy to express.

I claim that, given P, it is easy to construct a similar program which works with an input of n intervals. The new program Q would insert a test value of a_1. Then it would run P on [a_2,b_2],...,[a_n,b_n], spitting out a function of a_2. It would compute the value of a_2 such that the maximum minimum distance spit out by that function is as close to |a_1-a_2| as possible, thus solving the problem for the test value of a_1. Through judicious choices of test values of a_1, the full function of a_1 could be discovered. This is because Q knows the answer it should spit out is a piecewise linear function of a_1 with the number of distinct linear components a bounded function of n.
starleague.mit.edu
EtherealDeath
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States8366 Posts
August 27 2009 05:25 GMT
#16
On August 27 2009 13:49 Muirhead wrote:
I do not know (or believe) that there is a terribly simple formula for the answer.

If I just had to write a computer program to find an exact answer, I would proceed inductively. Suppose that there are n intervals, and that I have a computer program that can find the answer given n-1 intervals.

The computer program (call it P) that solves for n-1 intervals would receive input of the form [a_1,b_1],[a_2,b_2],...,[a_{n-1},b_{n-1}] where the a_i are inputted in nondecreasing order.

Furthermore, suppose the computer program P would give me my answer as a function of a_1, assuming a_1 <= a_2 and that the other a_i and b_i are fixed. The function would be piecewise linear and therefore easy to express.

I claim that, given P, it is easy to construct a similar program which works with an input of n intervals. The new program Q would insert a test value of a_1. Then it would run P on [a_2,b_2],...,[a_n,b_n], spitting out a function of a_2. It would compute the value of a_2 such that the maximum minimum distance spit out by that function is as close to |a_1-a_2| as possible, thus solving the problem for the test value of a_1. Through judicious choices of test values of a_1, the full function of a_1 could be discovered. This is because Q knows the answer it should spit out is a piecewise linear function of a_1 with the number of distinct linear components a bounded function of n.


Hm... I'm afraid I don't quite see the applicability of recursion on this problem. It seems that considering a_1 would not only change a_2 but also a_3, a_4,... which makes you recalculate everything, as the new minimum might not be between a_1 and a_2 but rather a_k and a_(k+t) for some k.
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-27 07:18:37
August 27 2009 07:18 GMT
#17
用中文说吧,我翻译
send me a pm to remind me to translate it.
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
SiegeTanksandBlueGoo
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
China685 Posts
August 27 2009 07:26 GMT
#18
This is sort of like Euler's method in calculus, except you're trying to find a specific number instead of the slope....

Then again, the slope is a specific number so maybe you can think about using that.
What does the scouter say about his macro level? It's Over 9000 minerals!
Muirhead
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States556 Posts
August 27 2009 09:56 GMT
#19
My argument definitely works. I know a lot of people on this site spurt nonsense solutions to these kinds of questions, but I do actually have a math/IMO background . It's a little complicated, but if you think about it you'll understand it. I am well aware that changing a_1 can change every other a_i.

Alternatively, note that my argument proves that the coordinates of the solution points are rational linear combinations of the coordinates of the endpoints. Furthermore, the argument provides natural bounds on the denominators of the coefficients. Thus, we only need to check a finite number of d as in severedevil's argument.
starleague.mit.edu
ninjafetus
Profile Joined December 2008
United States231 Posts
August 27 2009 12:52 GMT
#20
Restating the problem more clearly for anyone still confused.

You are given an closed interval [a,b], and some number of closed subintervals S_i = [a_i, b_i].
For each S_i, choose a c_i contained in [a_i, b_i] such that min_{i,j} (c_i, c_j) is maximized.

Wait, that might not be any more clear at all, save for math people who already get it...

In other words, each subinterval gets a point. Choose the points so that the distance between the two closest points is maximized over all possible choices of points.
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
01:00
StarCraft Evolution League #17
CranKy Ducklings154
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 204
WinterStarcraft191
Nina 141
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 82
Leta 79
scan(afreeca) 66
NaDa 62
Mong 40
ggaemo 29
Hm[arnc] 16
Noble 14
Icarus 7
Dota 2
monkeys_forever331
NeuroSwarm137
League of Legends
C9.Mang0349
Counter-Strike
minikerr22
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor145
Other Games
summit1g7267
tarik_tv5282
fl0m805
JimRising 526
ViBE171
ZombieGrub23
KawaiiRice1
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1282
BasetradeTV60
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH163
• Hupsaiya 92
• practicex 15
• Migwel
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 47
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22406
League of Legends
• Lourlo1141
• Rush729
Other Games
• Scarra1548
Upcoming Events
BSL 21
16h 6m
Sziky vs eOnzErG
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 6h
Krystianer vs TBD
TriGGeR vs SKillous
Percival vs TBD
ByuN vs Nicoract
OSC
1d 14h
BSL 21
1d 16h
Cross vs Dewalt
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
OSC
3 days
Solar vs MaxPax
ByuN vs Krystianer
Spirit vs TBD
OSC
6 days
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S1 - W1
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
Escore Tournament S1 - W2
Escore Tournament S1 - W3
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.