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United States43978 Posts
On October 11 2025 07:37 WombaT wrote:
Why not extend moderation privileges to some active participants in said threads who are generally considered beyond reproach then? Limit their remit to those areas.
That’s the same issue people have with me. They don’t want people who are actively involved in the discussions moderating it. So they’d have to stop getting involved. Except even then we’d still know who they are and where they stand and people would assume that using their powers was just part of an older argument.
Let’s say I stopped posting but started temp banning. How long would it be before the first complaint? I mean fuck, I don’t even do banning and there are still complaints.
I could moderate the topic in an impartial way. I choose not to because I don’t think it would help and I just don’t want to. It wouldn’t be fun, I would have to start posting like eriador and then I’d stop posting entirely.
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Hyrule19210 Posts
And therein lies the heart of the issue: a moderator has a choice of participating in a thread or moderating it, but following a thread for 20 years and tens of thousands of posts without doing both is a huge strain. I've been moderating the damned thing since a bit before election night 2016 and you see what it's done to me, not participating at all. That Kwark is a dick a lot of the time is testament to his restraint. If I'd been actively participating I would definitely have banned the lot of you and in turn been destaffed and banned myself.
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How about folks just stop whining and savor the fact the thread still exists? If not, I’ll mod it. I know all of your posting and I haven’t been an active participant in some time 
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Northern Ireland26772 Posts
On October 11 2025 08:48 tofucake wrote:
And therein lies the heart of the issue: a moderator has a choice of participating in a thread or moderating it, but following a thread for 20 years and tens of thousands of posts without doing both is a huge strain. I've been moderating the damned thing since a bit before election night 2016 and you see what it's done to me, not participating at all. That Kwark is a dick a lot of the time is testament to his restraint. If I'd been actively participating I would definitely have banned the lot of you and in turn been destaffed and banned myself.
Right so the official TL line is Kwark can be as big a dick as he wants, I hate all the posters in said thread, and I’m not interested in alternatives.
Good to know. Just no interest whatsoever in actually engaging on the issue.
Go fuck yourself. I assume I’m allowed to say that given that’s seemingly the lay of the land.
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United States43978 Posts
Wombat, I think you’re extremely confused by exactly what Tofu owes you here. Yours is not a reasonable response to what you perceive to be poor customer service from a volunteer organization where you’re not even a customer.
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Hyrule19210 Posts
On October 11 2025 09:34 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2025 08:48 tofucake wrote:
And therein lies the heart of the issue: a moderator has a choice of participating in a thread or moderating it, but following a thread for 20 years and tens of thousands of posts without doing both is a huge strain. I've been moderating the damned thing since a bit before election night 2016 and you see what it's done to me, not participating at all. That Kwark is a dick a lot of the time is testament to his restraint. If I'd been actively participating I would definitely have banned the lot of you and in turn been destaffed and banned myself. Right so the official TL line is Kwark can be as big a dick as he wants, I hate all the posters in said thread, and I’m not interested in alternatives. Good to know. Just no interest whatsoever in actually engaging on the issue. Go fuck yourself. I assume I’m allowed to say that given that’s seemingly the lay of the land.
If you want to willingly misread my post as an Official Statement From the Moderation Team, then yes, Kwark can be as big a dick as he wants. If you want to actually read what I wrote and note the parts about Kwark being moderated, just in a different way, then no, you're wrong, and you're also a fuckhead who I'd be happy to nuke.
I said Website Feedback was moderated differently, not unmoderated. Check yourself.
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Northern Ireland26772 Posts
On October 11 2025 09:44 tofucake wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2025 09:34 WombaT wrote:On October 11 2025 08:48 tofucake wrote:
And therein lies the heart of the issue: a moderator has a choice of participating in a thread or moderating it, but following a thread for 20 years and tens of thousands of posts without doing both is a huge strain. I've been moderating the damned thing since a bit before election night 2016 and you see what it's done to me, not participating at all. That Kwark is a dick a lot of the time is testament to his restraint. If I'd been actively participating I would definitely have banned the lot of you and in turn been destaffed and banned myself. Right so the official TL line is Kwark can be as big a dick as he wants, I hate all the posters in said thread, and I’m not interested in alternatives. Good to know. Just no interest whatsoever in actually engaging on the issue. Go fuck yourself. I assume I’m allowed to say that given that’s seemingly the lay of the land. If you want to willingly misread my post as an Official Statement From the Moderation Team, then yes, Kwark can be as big a dick as he wants. If you want to actually read what I wrote and note the parts about Kwark being moderated, just in a different way, then no, you're wrong, and you're also a fuckhead who I'd be happy to nuke. I said Website Feedback was moderated differently, not unmoderated. Check yourself.
What am I misreading?
Kwark is moderated behind closed doors, in a manner that doesn’t remotely moderate his posting, nor is communicated to us plebs?
Fantastic. Good to know that’s happening.
Nothing I said was remotely unfair, it was a pretty accurate characterisation of what you said.
I mean go gurn and call me a fuckhead by all means.
Your posts in this thread have been frankly breathtakingly arrogant, completely dismissive of what actual users of your site are saying, and hey you do that lad.
I don’t even have a massive issue with Kwark, I think he’s one of the best posters on the entire site. He’s one of my absolute bloody favourites, for fuck’s sake
It’s not a complicated idea, it really isn’t
You’re making out like it is and blaming all of us for unrealistic expectations that are entirely realistic.
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Hyrule19210 Posts
You have received significantly slighter punishment than most users because of your long history here and your contributions to TL. Now you complain when I state that this is normal in a few posts in Website Feedback. If you think it is unfair that people who've contributed more and done more behind the scenes receive preferential treatment. Is it really me being arrogant?
Your post was disingenuous and a deliberate misinterpretation of what I said. Your posts have been frankly breathtakingly bad faithed.
I posted my opinion in response to comments in Website Feedback. I specifically mentioned not doing what I wanted because the mod staff decided it's not the right action, and you call me arrogant.
We keep the bots and, as much as possible, total assholes, off this site so that you can discuss politics on a gaming website, without pay, because we like the community, and you call me arrogant.
Do you want to see me be arrogant? Because I can start being arrogant any time you want.
[edit]
In the interest of openness that you want, the only report that is currently open is on one of your posts which both Kwark and I are deliberately not moderating because we are in active discussion with you, even though the post is for a post in US Politics Megathread, in which I don't even participate.
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United States43978 Posts
Tofu gave you his personal experience of attempting to moderate a shitty set of topics and explained his frustrations with doing so. It was relevant to lack of moderation you were complaining about. He said he'd sooner close it than take responsibility for making all the posters in only made good posts. That if you wanted moderation then that was the kind of moderation he'd be willing to provide.
You're picking a fight with a volunteer who is communicating his limits and frustrations with a thankless task. One that never wanted the job you're asking that he do.
If you still think that he is being dismissive in response to your demands then take a second to consider the work involved in what you're demanding, the tone you're taking, and the compensation you're offering him for doing that work. How receptive would you be in his position?
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Northern Ireland26772 Posts
What people on TL do, I fully appreciate, indeed I suggested recruiting more people to aid the load so the existing mod team don’t have to spend half their time on pol disputes.
I have suggested this, multiple times.
Tofu didn’t come in saying it was tough moderating, it was very much fuck you and I’d ban you all if I could. Alongside fuck you we make the rules.
If that wasn’t their intent, well they could have worded it better.
As they did not, I respond to what is presented to me.
Come on Kwark how is anyone meant to read that? Realistically
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United States43978 Posts
There’s very much a link between it being tough to moderate posters and telling posters “fuck you, I’d ban you all if I could”. Nobody is born at fuck you, they’re pushed there.
You got him all fired up to moderate the topic at least. Some set of rules is now in place and we’ll learn what they are when the executions start. You said that I don’t moderate my posting but I do, and I’ll be keeping my head down.
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I dunno I’ve always weirdly admired the unalloyed hostility tofu shows to the entire thread. I think maybe the correct emotional response to our politics, especially in the last ten years.
I do, however, hope he never closes the thread and bans all of us.
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I can easily sympathize with going crazy doing something unpleasant for a long time and no pay, but also, Tofu is wrong, you're not all toxic and you don't all deserve each other. I would miss reading a lot of you.
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Northern Ireland26772 Posts
On October 11 2025 10:14 tofucake wrote:
You have received significantly slighter punishment than most users because of your long history here and your contributions to TL. Now you complain when I state that this is normal in a few posts in Website Feedback. If you think it is unfair that people who've contributed more and done more behind the scenes receive preferential treatment. Is it really me being arrogant?
Your post was disingenuous and a deliberate misinterpretation of what I said. Your posts have been frankly breathtakingly bad faithed.
I posted my opinion in response to comments in Website Feedback. I specifically mentioned not doing what I wanted because the mod staff decided it's not the right action, and you call me arrogant.
We keep the bots and, as much as possible, total assholes, off this site so that you can discuss politics on a gaming website, without pay, because we like the community, and you call me arrogant.
Do you want to see me be arrogant? Because I can start being arrogant any time you want.
[edit]
In the interest of openness that you want, the only report that is currently open is on one of your posts which both Kwark and I are deliberately not moderating because we are in active discussion with you, even though the post is for a post in US Politics Megathread, in which I don't even participate.
Now, you’re shifting the posts here,
My post, about you being arrogant was entirely about your prior post.
It was incredibly dismissive of many who’ve contributed to the last day or two of posting. There’s no other reading, and I stand by that.
Others may disagree.
At no point did I criticise, or dismiss the work of TL mods (and my hod there’s a lot of bots these days), in general. That’s a thankless task, that isn’t thanked enough.
Note I didn’t criticise that.
I saids what I said. Despite that, rather antagonistic tone I’ve full respect for all TL staff.
Kwark is still my fav, despite being a prick all the time. Probably why I like him.
I will not retract, but I think I came out way more hostile than I meant to, so apologies
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Hyrule19210 Posts
I've known Kwark for 16 years and I said I'd ban him along with everyone else. It should have been clear that I am exasperated with the shithole that is US Pol and all of the posters "screaming into the wind". I will not speak for other mods, but the fact that only 2 from the whole staff are moderating the thread, that should carry some weight.
I probably could have worded things better, but my point stands: TL has a big part of my life, and I do what I can for it, but US Pol is like an inoperable cyst and I hate it.
People get pissed off when we don't moderate and demand we moderate more. People get pissed off when we do moderate and demand we moderate less. No matter what we do we're wrong and shit moderators. I post my opinion and get called arrogant. I don't post and it's silence from the mod team and Kwark is free to do whatever he wants.
I'm fucking tired of it. I hate all of your politics. That's why I don't participate in the thread. Everyone claims that they have the only right answer and everyone else is wrong and evil and a nazi and a pedophile. All of you fail to recognize that you're 98% in agreement and also, somehow, 374% wrong in all respects. Unknown to all of you, everyone is basically just trying to get along and be a good person, but there's some disagreement in exactly what that should look like, and then you all get in to an "us vs them" mindset and let the hate set in.
The simple answer is: be nice, don't be a dick.
For the love of fuck, all of you need to just chill out and not try to see the bad everyone else. Instead everyone just gets mad and posts shit at each other and now we have to be responsible for you because this is an anonymous forum and you're all acting like toddlers who simultaneously had their toys stolen and shit their pants.
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Northern Ireland26772 Posts
On October 11 2025 10:58 tofucake wrote:
I've known Kwark for 16 years and I said I'd ban him along with everyone else. It should have been clear that I am exasperated with the shithole that is US Pol and all of the posters "screaming into the wind". I will not speak for other mods, but the fact that only 2 from the whole staff are moderating the thread, that should carry some weight.
I probably could have worded things better, but my point stands: TL has a big part of my life, and I do what I can for it, but US Pol is like an inoperable cyst and I hate it.
People get pissed off when we don't moderate and demand we moderate more. People get pissed off when we do moderate and demand we moderate less. No matter what we do we're wrong and shit moderators. I post my opinion and get called arrogant. I don't post and it's silence from the mod team and Kwark is free to do whatever he wants.
I'm fucking tired of it. I hate all of your politics. That's why I don't participate in the thread. Everyone claims that they have the only right answer and everyone else is wrong and evil and a nazi and a pedophile. All of you fail to recognize that you're 98% in agreement and also, somehow, 374% wrong in all respects. Unknown to all of you, everyone is basically just trying to get along and be a good person, but there's some disagreement in exactly what that should look like, and then you all get in to an "us vs them" mindset and let the hate set in.
The simple answer is: be nice, don't be a dick.
For the love of fuck, all of you need to just chill out and not try to see the bad everyone else. Instead everyone just gets mad and posts shit at each other and now we have to be responsible for you because this is an anonymous forum and you're all acting like toddlers who simultaneously had their toys stolen and shit their pants.
Ok.
It sounds like you’re just, like utterly burned out on like, the modern political divide, wholesale. And the anger there.
Your responses, from that place come across as considerably less arrogant, and more, frustrated by the shite.
Apologies I think I jumped in a bit prematurely in certain facets (not all) and misunderstood a few things.
So I do apologise for much of what I said. I hope you can accept. Not all of it, but that. You weren’t dismissing our primitive political arguments out of arrogance, but just well, politics being fucking shit right?
Dunno if I’m phrasing too well but I assume you know what I mean, and apologies again for being somewhat spiky
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Wombat, for what it's worth, I did read Tofu's 'statement' and come away with it thinking "I guess that makes sense, USpol would basically just be a blight if all you did was read and/or moderate it". Considering TL has fully shut down the thread before, I suppose that isn't surprising. I don't wholly understand your angle, but perhaps I'm just not as invested as you.
(I don't say that to suggest you're too invested)
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Hyrule19210 Posts
Of course I'm burnt out. There 5300 pages of hate and then another 340 pages of metahate. But if I stop moderating the thread the site gets worse and makes everything else I've done here worth less.
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Northern Ireland26772 Posts
On October 11 2025 11:15 tofucake wrote:
Of course I'm burnt out. There 5300 pages of hate and then another 340 pages of metahate. But if I stop moderating the thread the site gets worse and makes everything else I've done here worth less.
That’s brutal. Could you not recruit though? Lessen the load a bit.
There’s probably loads of people who like would fucking love to have that ‘TL Mod’ ticked off on their CV. And would be good in the role.
I am not a particular stable man, would be an awful mod, so my advocacy isn’t trying to crowbar me in. And never will.
But if you’re swamped why not spread the load a bit?
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Hyrule19210 Posts
Like I said before, people who want to moderate are basically the worst choice of people to choose as moderators. One of the ways we find new mods is looking at report histories. When most users have report histories of 79% bots and 20% US Pol, it's hard to find even candidates.
I'm a moderator because 17 years ago I started posting and contributing to Liquipedia, and a while later some permissions got merged. Kwark is a banling because 20 years ago he was following the rules of the time, reporting well, and overall contributing a lot to the community. Same for Seeker.
It's hard to find people who've been contributing for decades and know TL so well. The forum staff isn't a corporation that can just hire people to do a job, we're a self policing community. We moderate because we love the community, but US Pol makes that hard
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EPT
