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KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43665 Posts
October 11 2025 18:18 GMT
#6821
Did you make it to the end of my comment where I said to do it at the right times?
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3304 Posts
October 11 2025 18:27 GMT
#6822
I think of whining about moderation as the USPMT equivalent of whining about game balance in Starcraft. People go into it with their own biases so you always have to take someone’s analysis with a grain of salt. It’s not *inherently* a waste of time – sometimes there really is egregious stuff and it’s good to raise that issue to the people in charge – but 90% of the time people could also work on improving as a poster/player rather than making the case they shouldn’t *have* to do that.

Specifically, at this moment I think it’s analogous to SC2 balance. You can put together your big schemes for a ground-up redesign that would totally improve everything, and you might even be right about how great it would be! But you’re ignoring the fact that your pleas are falling on the ears of one intern + Show Spoiler +
no offense, Tofu
that doesn’t have time or energy for all that. You should be triaging the most egregious problems and helping them focus on that, if you want to stick around here, and if they’ve demonstrated unwillingness to do the thing you’re asking you should probably just accept the things you can’t control. Or you can go somewhere else (post on Reddit/play League or something) – undoubtedly a popular option, but one I have no interest in personally.

Sorry if that comes across as too dismissive, but I thought people might at least find the analogy cute if not a little illuminating.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
Fleetfeet
Profile Blog Joined May 2014
Canada2653 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-10-11 19:24:18
October 11 2025 19:13 GMT
#6823
On October 12 2025 02:47 Magic Powers wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2025 02:29 Fleetfeet wrote:
On October 11 2025 16:53 Magic Powers wrote:
In my opinion the whole problem of US pol being too toxic and instilling burnout/hate in those moderating it can be solved/strongly diminished by kicking the rule to the curb which says veterans have privileges and by instead dishing out bans and warnings evenly across all users who break rules. No more exceptions, no more privileges. Done.

Edit: I think the fact that people don't report other users' comments and instead mostly report bots is because they have no incentive to report users if most of these reports go ignored due to user privilege. Removing the privilege may increase the reports on users breaking rules and thus aid moderation.


Tofu gave three clear answers in response to LegalLord's questions. Assuming Tofu is a person you respect and are considering the wishes and volunteer energy of, why are you asking for something they all but stated they were not willing to do?

Like, one of the mods just expressed frustration at their volunteer position and burnout, and your 'solution' is for them to moderate MORE and do MORE work? Think it through, lad. Checking every reported post to see if it does or does not follow the rules is MORE work, especially if there are MORE reported posts. It being a solution or less work for the mods is fantasy - you just want to believe that because it suits your goals.



I completely disagree.

+ Show Spoiler +
Btw I was writing out a whole response, but then I reminded myself that KwarK thinks the above posting style is more productive.


I don't care that you disagree that I pointed to how your logic is either faulty or lacking. It doesn't change that your logic is faulty and lacking.

Thank you for not writing a long post! I don't want you to die on this hill, as others have pointed to, I want you to reconsider the hill you've built and whether or not it's fucking stupid. I don't need to hear about those musings.

- E -

@ChristianS

The part of the discussion that I think was valuable and has since been resolved is simply the question:

"Does KwarK's consistent low quality and aggressive method of posting (as a mod) lower the general quality of posting in USpol or TL at large?"

Tofu seemed to sum it up as "No, you're all shit, KwarK being a mod doesn't change anything, and please for the love of my sanity let me nuke the fucking lot of you toxic garbage piles. This is our house."

I can respect that as an answer, so it seems solved to me. I'm sure some posters will use it as an excuse to try find how low the bar is and then Tofu will nuke us all, us having sufficiently proven that we deserve it and can't be trusted to play nice.
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4478 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-10-11 19:55:09
October 11 2025 19:53 GMT
#6824
On October 12 2025 04:13 Fleetfeet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2025 02:47 Magic Powers wrote:
On October 12 2025 02:29 Fleetfeet wrote:
On October 11 2025 16:53 Magic Powers wrote:
In my opinion the whole problem of US pol being too toxic and instilling burnout/hate in those moderating it can be solved/strongly diminished by kicking the rule to the curb which says veterans have privileges and by instead dishing out bans and warnings evenly across all users who break rules. No more exceptions, no more privileges. Done.

Edit: I think the fact that people don't report other users' comments and instead mostly report bots is because they have no incentive to report users if most of these reports go ignored due to user privilege. Removing the privilege may increase the reports on users breaking rules and thus aid moderation.


Tofu gave three clear answers in response to LegalLord's questions. Assuming Tofu is a person you respect and are considering the wishes and volunteer energy of, why are you asking for something they all but stated they were not willing to do?

Like, one of the mods just expressed frustration at their volunteer position and burnout, and your 'solution' is for them to moderate MORE and do MORE work? Think it through, lad. Checking every reported post to see if it does or does not follow the rules is MORE work, especially if there are MORE reported posts. It being a solution or less work for the mods is fantasy - you just want to believe that because it suits your goals.



I completely disagree.

+ Show Spoiler +
Btw I was writing out a whole response, but then I reminded myself that KwarK thinks the above posting style is more productive.


I don't care that you disagree that I pointed to how your logic is either faulty or lacking. It doesn't change that your logic is faulty and lacking.

Thank you for not writing a long post! I don't want you to die on this hill, as others have pointed to, I want you to reconsider the hill you've built and whether or not it's fucking stupid. I don't need to hear about those musings.

- E -

@ChristianS

The part of the discussion that I think was valuable and has since been resolved is simply the question:

"Does KwarK's consistent low quality and aggressive method of posting (as a mod) lower the general quality of posting in USpol or TL at large?"

Tofu seemed to sum it up as "No, you're all shit, KwarK being a mod doesn't change anything, and please for the love of my sanity let me nuke the fucking lot of you toxic garbage piles. This is our house."

I can respect that as an answer, so it seems solved to me. I'm sure some posters will use it as an excuse to try find how low the bar is and then Tofu will nuke us all, us having sufficiently proven that we deserve it and can't be trusted to play nice.


KwarK appears to suggest that I used his debating method at the wrong time, so here's the long form explanation.
tofu didn't argue that they hate moderating, they said they hate the people in US pol and their views and arguments etc. Moderating appears to suit tofu, but US pol specifically contains too much hate worthy stuff posted by people.

Hence more moderating would not worsen things for tofu, it would suit them because that's what they like. They enjoy moderating, but not reading US pol comments. Banning/warning people in US pol would lead to a reduction of the hate worthy stuff that tofu hates to read.

Therefore I think my proposal is perfectly valid.
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
tofucake
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Hyrule19193 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-10-11 20:09:40
October 11 2025 20:06 GMT
#6825
your proposal is insane

"tofu enjoys being stabbed, so if he's stabbed more he'll become numb to it and eventually die, which aligns with the enjoyment of being stabbed"

I don't like moderating. I like TL. Moderating keeps TL likeable, therefore I do it. It's not my hobby. It's not my job. It's not something I'm forced to do at gunpoint. I consider it like voting and jury duty: a responsibility to the community.

But the community wants to murder each other, burn down the city, salt the earth, and start a new society where the one with the conch is in charge
Liquipediaasante sana squash banana
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4478 Posts
October 11 2025 20:23 GMT
#6826
On October 12 2025 05:06 tofucake wrote:
your proposal is insane

"tofu enjoys being stabbed, so if he's stabbed more he'll become numb to it and eventually die, which aligns with the enjoyment of being stabbed"

I don't like moderating. I like TL. Moderating keeps TL likeable, therefore I do it. It's not my hobby. It's not my job. It's not something I'm forced to do at gunpoint. I consider it like voting and jury duty: a responsibility to the community.

But the community wants to murder each other, burn down the city, salt the earth, and start a new society where the one with the conch is in charge


Sheesh, excuse me for assuming a mod enjoys moderating. You'll find me in the corner of shame for making a wild assumption like that.
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
tofucake
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Hyrule19193 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-10-11 20:30:00
October 11 2025 20:29 GMT
#6827
What part of any of my posts made you think I enjoy moderating? I specifically pointed out that I got my mod powers from a restructuring of staff. You'll notice my staff label is Liquipedia and not Moderator
Liquipediaasante sana squash banana
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28751 Posts
October 11 2025 20:42 GMT
#6828
And why would you assume any moderator enjoys moderating? At best, you're spending a small period of time cleaning up shit - this isn't a big deal, but it's slightly worse than neutral. At worst, you're forced to choose between two shitty options and even if you spend a couple hours thinking about what the best course of action is and you discuss it with your fellow moderators and then you write a long post justifying your action, someone ends up pissed off. I mean, you can 'enjoy' it in the sense that you feel like you're contributing positively to something you enjoy, but that's like saying you enjoy weeding your garden. If you actually enjoy the 'work', then I feel like you have to either enjoy the prestige or being on a power trip or something, in which case you shouldn't be a moderator.

Moderator
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4478 Posts
October 11 2025 21:35 GMT
#6829
Sure, ok. You guys are completely right and I should be ashamed of myself for assuming far too much. Got it, you put me in my place.

User was temp banned for this post.
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8818 Posts
October 12 2025 05:30 GMT
#6830
classic mp. wont accept wombat and fleetfeets points when its smacking him right in the face, then proceeds to prove their points right immediately after. hilarious
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5299 Posts
October 12 2025 18:39 GMT
#6831
and/or, ask who is a Lasan follower then ban them all.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
Fleetfeet
Profile Blog Joined May 2014
Canada2653 Posts
October 12 2025 19:29 GMT
#6832
Dear god. MP, I hope in your downtime you can reflect on that interaction and see it as the rest of us do:

1 ) MP has a take that's a little off base and doesn't hold up to scrutiny

2 ) Some posters offer fair scrutiny of the position

3 ) MP stands firm on the hill, insisting the hill isn't wrong, the criticism of it is

4 ) The criticism is proven correct and accurate beyond the shadow of a doubt

5 ) MP backs down from the hill to a smaller hill, where he recognizes the old hill was wrong, but the criticism was still totally unfair because it was an honest mistake and you guys criticising me are totally dicks

6 ) Tofu shoots MP.

Lemme give you an example of me being a dumbass, so you can see how this SHOULD go and not think it's an ego thing

1 ) I say something very much like "Aren't the first words of the constitution "We the people?"" (context being I was trying to make an argument about it being for citizens or something, I forget)

2 ) oBlade points out I'm a dumbass.

3 ) I don't trust oBlade, so I look back and see Jock or someone I trust actually had posted something a few posts earlier that shows my argument is stupid.

4 ) Recognizing my argument is stupid, I drop it.

I'm on mobile and would have to dig, but that interaction happened (at least as best I can remember). Don't die on your stupid hills.
Ryzel
Profile Joined December 2012
United States545 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-10-13 21:24:48
October 13 2025 21:09 GMT
#6833
I’ve thoroughly enjoyed this discussion of “Dr. StrangeKwarK or: How MP Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Being A Dismissive Douchebag”.

In all seriousness though, KwarK is fine and Tofu doesn’t get paid enough.
Hakuna Matata B*tches
Billyboy
Profile Joined September 2024
1519 Posts
October 14 2025 21:19 GMT
#6834
I will personally triple all the volunteers pay.
zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia6336 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-10-15 11:01:24
October 15 2025 09:07 GMT
#6835
On October 11 2025 09:05 farvacola wrote:
How about folks just stop whining and savor the fact the thread still exists? If not, I’ll mod it. I know all of your posting and I haven’t been an active participant in some time

I too, like the quoted poster above have not been active in the USpol thread in some time and can moderate the thread from a position of neutrality, like mentioned poster above

What an interesting few pages, I think the idea AI could be used in 'unmodaratable' threads has its positives. If it can detect ad-hominem posting and personal attacks that would be a massive improvement and bring in many many more posters

edit:
On October 11 2025 11:39 KwarK wrote:
I’d like to revisit my ostracism proposal. Turn moderation over to a citizen body of general forum posters in good standing. I’ll administrate it if needed. No specific rules, just if the people who regularly post there think that they get more value out of the topic with you gone then you’re gone.

Because of things like this only the same 10-15 people post in these threads and pretend they are the majority
"No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot." - Mark Twain
Zambrah
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States7393 Posts
October 15 2025 21:52 GMT
#6836
1) I am happy to close the thread and ban all of you. That would solve all of the problematic posting.


The self control it must take to not do this must be extraordinary. I'd have pushed that button by now for sure.
Incremental change is the Democrat version of Trickle Down economics.
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8818 Posts
October 17 2025 03:27 GMT
#6837
so i take it the mods have decided to go back to more moderation in the threads now?
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26339 Posts
October 18 2025 14:06 GMT
#6838
On October 17 2025 12:27 evilfatsh1t wrote:
so i take it the mods have decided to go back to more moderation in the threads now?

Seems it at least.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Jankisa
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Croatia1212 Posts
October 19 2025 10:39 GMT
#6839
You have been temp banned for 2 days by tofucake.

Reason: I told you to read the rules. I told you shitposting isn't allowed. I told you US Politics is moderated more strictly.

Try to keep that in mind in the future


So, I got temp banned for 2 days due to "shitposting" in the thread over there. I guess it was based on telling Razyda that they are unglued and should touch grass, but I don't know for certain because none of my posts received the red "User was temp banned for this post" label, which is confusing to me because I thought those were always there.

What is more confusing is that others posted similarly "shitposty" stuff all around those pages and, specificially KwarK's comment of:


That word salad is better than any parody Razyda post I could have come up with. Chefs kiss.


Seems to be in the same genre, so to me it's weird that I'd get banned and not even had a post marked as a reason.

To be fully transparent, 2 weeks before that I did get a warning from Tofucake noting that that thread is moderated strictly and "personal attacks and shitposting" were not tolerated, about a comment that can definitely be defined as such, so that one I had no problem with.

This one, I'd just like to understand "where is the line" of shitposting? Is replying to something with comments on specific things said, a few jokes and then basically a light jab really ban worthy, especially considering that, to me, it seemed very much in line with the rest of the stuff that gets posted there?

So, are you a pessimist? - On my better days. Are you a nihilist? - Not as much as I should be.
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8818 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-10-19 13:26:38
October 19 2025 13:25 GMT
#6840
On October 16 2025 04:15 Jankisa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 16 2025 01:06 LightSpectra wrote:
Waiting patiently to see if the Republican response to their Neo-Nazi groupchat is going to be whataboutism or "K-pop idols also say Heil Hitler"


I have a feeling that no one will really react to this, because, as our pals oBlade and Introvert will explain to you, "Racism is made up".

I had a call with a colleague, US one, somehow Bad Bunny NFL halftime show came up, imidiately he launched into:

1. Do you know how many Americans were doing the halftime NFL show in the last 10 years?
2. Do you know that half NFL teams have "end Racism" on their helmets?
3. Why, do they even know who their audience is?
4. Anyway, that is all so stupid, there is no racism in the USA...

I, as the woke antifa was twitching in my seat, my fiancee who was sitting next to me and heard it from my laptop was looking at me with a look that can only be described as "don't flip out" as I politely asked, without addressing most of this shit "Have you logged on to the app formerly known as Twitter lately? I think Racism is alive and well."

He replied with "ah, that's just the internet man" and I quickly changed the subject, but oh boy, was that revealing.

Not a bad guy, but a die hard Trump supporter who canceled his trip to Europe because "they hate us over there" and since 2024 he really started hating Canadians.

Brainwashing is real and pretty fucked up over there.

User was temp banned for this post.

you got temped for that post

thought it was a pretty weak shitpost to get a temp for to be fair.
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