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US Politics Feedback Thread - Page 342

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KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43129 Posts
5 hours ago
#6821
Did you make it to the end of my comment where I said to do it at the right times?
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3217 Posts
5 hours ago
#6822
I think of whining about moderation as the USPMT equivalent of whining about game balance in Starcraft. People go into it with their own biases so you always have to take someone’s analysis with a grain of salt. It’s not *inherently* a waste of time – sometimes there really is egregious stuff and it’s good to raise that issue to the people in charge – but 90% of the time people could also work on improving as a poster/player rather than making the case they shouldn’t *have* to do that.

Specifically, at this moment I think it’s analogous to SC2 balance. You can put together your big schemes for a ground-up redesign that would totally improve everything, and you might even be right about how great it would be! But you’re ignoring the fact that your pleas are falling on the ears of one intern + Show Spoiler +
no offense, Tofu
that doesn’t have time or energy for all that. You should be triaging the most egregious problems and helping them focus on that, if you want to stick around here, and if they’ve demonstrated unwillingness to do the thing you’re asking you should probably just accept the things you can’t control. Or you can go somewhere else (post on Reddit/play League or something) – undoubtedly a popular option, but one I have no interest in personally.

Sorry if that comes across as too dismissive, but I thought people might at least find the analogy cute if not a little illuminating.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
Fleetfeet
Profile Blog Joined May 2014
Canada2595 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-10-11 19:24:18
4 hours ago
#6823
On October 12 2025 02:47 Magic Powers wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2025 02:29 Fleetfeet wrote:
On October 11 2025 16:53 Magic Powers wrote:
In my opinion the whole problem of US pol being too toxic and instilling burnout/hate in those moderating it can be solved/strongly diminished by kicking the rule to the curb which says veterans have privileges and by instead dishing out bans and warnings evenly across all users who break rules. No more exceptions, no more privileges. Done.

Edit: I think the fact that people don't report other users' comments and instead mostly report bots is because they have no incentive to report users if most of these reports go ignored due to user privilege. Removing the privilege may increase the reports on users breaking rules and thus aid moderation.


Tofu gave three clear answers in response to LegalLord's questions. Assuming Tofu is a person you respect and are considering the wishes and volunteer energy of, why are you asking for something they all but stated they were not willing to do?

Like, one of the mods just expressed frustration at their volunteer position and burnout, and your 'solution' is for them to moderate MORE and do MORE work? Think it through, lad. Checking every reported post to see if it does or does not follow the rules is MORE work, especially if there are MORE reported posts. It being a solution or less work for the mods is fantasy - you just want to believe that because it suits your goals.



I completely disagree.

+ Show Spoiler +
Btw I was writing out a whole response, but then I reminded myself that KwarK thinks the above posting style is more productive.


I don't care that you disagree that I pointed to how your logic is either faulty or lacking. It doesn't change that your logic is faulty and lacking.

Thank you for not writing a long post! I don't want you to die on this hill, as others have pointed to, I want you to reconsider the hill you've built and whether or not it's fucking stupid. I don't need to hear about those musings.

- E -

@ChristianS

The part of the discussion that I think was valuable and has since been resolved is simply the question:

"Does KwarK's consistent low quality and aggressive method of posting (as a mod) lower the general quality of posting in USpol or TL at large?"

Tofu seemed to sum it up as "No, you're all shit, KwarK being a mod doesn't change anything, and please for the love of my sanity let me nuke the fucking lot of you toxic garbage piles. This is our house."

I can respect that as an answer, so it seems solved to me. I'm sure some posters will use it as an excuse to try find how low the bar is and then Tofu will nuke us all, us having sufficiently proven that we deserve it and can't be trusted to play nice.
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4478 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-10-11 19:55:09
3 hours ago
#6824
On October 12 2025 04:13 Fleetfeet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2025 02:47 Magic Powers wrote:
On October 12 2025 02:29 Fleetfeet wrote:
On October 11 2025 16:53 Magic Powers wrote:
In my opinion the whole problem of US pol being too toxic and instilling burnout/hate in those moderating it can be solved/strongly diminished by kicking the rule to the curb which says veterans have privileges and by instead dishing out bans and warnings evenly across all users who break rules. No more exceptions, no more privileges. Done.

Edit: I think the fact that people don't report other users' comments and instead mostly report bots is because they have no incentive to report users if most of these reports go ignored due to user privilege. Removing the privilege may increase the reports on users breaking rules and thus aid moderation.


Tofu gave three clear answers in response to LegalLord's questions. Assuming Tofu is a person you respect and are considering the wishes and volunteer energy of, why are you asking for something they all but stated they were not willing to do?

Like, one of the mods just expressed frustration at their volunteer position and burnout, and your 'solution' is for them to moderate MORE and do MORE work? Think it through, lad. Checking every reported post to see if it does or does not follow the rules is MORE work, especially if there are MORE reported posts. It being a solution or less work for the mods is fantasy - you just want to believe that because it suits your goals.



I completely disagree.

+ Show Spoiler +
Btw I was writing out a whole response, but then I reminded myself that KwarK thinks the above posting style is more productive.


I don't care that you disagree that I pointed to how your logic is either faulty or lacking. It doesn't change that your logic is faulty and lacking.

Thank you for not writing a long post! I don't want you to die on this hill, as others have pointed to, I want you to reconsider the hill you've built and whether or not it's fucking stupid. I don't need to hear about those musings.

- E -

@ChristianS

The part of the discussion that I think was valuable and has since been resolved is simply the question:

"Does KwarK's consistent low quality and aggressive method of posting (as a mod) lower the general quality of posting in USpol or TL at large?"

Tofu seemed to sum it up as "No, you're all shit, KwarK being a mod doesn't change anything, and please for the love of my sanity let me nuke the fucking lot of you toxic garbage piles. This is our house."

I can respect that as an answer, so it seems solved to me. I'm sure some posters will use it as an excuse to try find how low the bar is and then Tofu will nuke us all, us having sufficiently proven that we deserve it and can't be trusted to play nice.


KwarK appears to suggest that I used his debating method at the wrong time, so here's the long form explanation.
tofu didn't argue that they hate moderating, they said they hate the people in US pol and their views and arguments etc. Moderating appears to suit tofu, but US pol specifically contains too much hate worthy stuff posted by people.

Hence more moderating would not worsen things for tofu, it would suit them because that's what they like. They enjoy moderating, but not reading US pol comments. Banning/warning people in US pol would lead to a reduction of the hate worthy stuff that tofu hates to read.

Therefore I think my proposal is perfectly valid.
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
tofucake
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Hyrule19128 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-10-11 20:09:40
3 hours ago
#6825
your proposal is insane

"tofu enjoys being stabbed, so if he's stabbed more he'll become numb to it and eventually die, which aligns with the enjoyment of being stabbed"

I don't like moderating. I like TL. Moderating keeps TL likeable, therefore I do it. It's not my hobby. It's not my job. It's not something I'm forced to do at gunpoint. I consider it like voting and jury duty: a responsibility to the community.

But the community wants to murder each other, burn down the city, salt the earth, and start a new society where the one with the conch is in charge
Liquipediaasante sana squash banana
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4478 Posts
3 hours ago
#6826
On October 12 2025 05:06 tofucake wrote:
your proposal is insane

"tofu enjoys being stabbed, so if he's stabbed more he'll become numb to it and eventually die, which aligns with the enjoyment of being stabbed"

I don't like moderating. I like TL. Moderating keeps TL likeable, therefore I do it. It's not my hobby. It's not my job. It's not something I'm forced to do at gunpoint. I consider it like voting and jury duty: a responsibility to the community.

But the community wants to murder each other, burn down the city, salt the earth, and start a new society where the one with the conch is in charge


Sheesh, excuse me for assuming a mod enjoys moderating. You'll find me in the corner of shame for making a wild assumption like that.
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
tofucake
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Hyrule19128 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-10-11 20:30:00
3 hours ago
#6827
What part of any of my posts made you think I enjoy moderating? I specifically pointed out that I got my mod powers from a restructuring of staff. You'll notice my staff label is Liquipedia and not Moderator
Liquipediaasante sana squash banana
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28699 Posts
2 hours ago
#6828
And why would you assume any moderator enjoys moderating? At best, you're spending a small period of time cleaning up shit - this isn't a big deal, but it's slightly worse than neutral. At worst, you're forced to choose between two shitty options and even if you spend a couple hours thinking about what the best course of action is and you discuss it with your fellow moderators and then you write a long post justifying your action, someone ends up pissed off. I mean, you can 'enjoy' it in the sense that you feel like you're contributing positively to something you enjoy, but that's like saying you enjoy weeding your garden. If you actually enjoy the 'work', then I feel like you have to either enjoy the prestige or being on a power trip or something, in which case you shouldn't be a moderator.

Moderator
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4478 Posts
2 hours ago
#6829
Sure, ok. You guys are completely right and I should be ashamed of myself for assuming far too much. Got it, you put me in my place.

User was temp banned for this post.
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
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