• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:15
CET 20:15
KST 04:15
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.173Evil Geniuses - shutting down17ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier5Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League88
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.17 REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Evil Geniuses - shutting down How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR?
Tourneys
2026 KungFu Cup Announcement RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Simple Questions/Answers [G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 548 Shining Bright Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror
Brood War
General
Starcraft player cRuZa Passed away. BW General Discussion [BW] Looking for Clan Thread! [ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory! Recent recommended BW games
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [$1250] International ShieldBattery League KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4 [BSL23] RO24 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Armies of Exigo - YesYes? General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8564 users

MH17 Thread - Page 2

Forum Index > Website Feedback
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
DeepElemBlues
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States5080 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-18 03:13:35
July 18 2014 03:12 GMT
#21
Why not just cut to the chase and close the thread now, the mod note is already an admission that a conversation can't actually be had. You can talk about hoping and wanting to have a discussion if possible and all that nice stuff but the mod note belies all of that.
no place i'd rather be than the satellite of love
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
July 18 2014 03:56 GMT
#22
On July 18 2014 12:06 scott31337 wrote:
So is this article an acceptable source since it's on a Canadian news site? Or due to it's content its not? I don't want to get banned. http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/17/malaysian-passenger-plane-was-shot-down-by-rebels-intercepted-phone-calls-prove-ukraines-president-says/

As the article says, "Neither recording could be independently verified." so as long as you're not trying to distort what the article is saying then it'll be fine.
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Silvanel
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Poland4769 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-18 12:58:04
July 18 2014 05:41 GMT
#23
In my opinion - main problem with both Ukrainian Crisis thread and this one is that moderation is too lenient on posters. From my point of view, You desperately avoid banning some posters to not appear ruso/ukraine-phpobic. Lets be blunt, there were tons of shitty posters in both of those threads. In any other circumstances those people would be already permanently banned. Yet they are still allowed to post. They contaminate the threads with their wild accusations backed by their state propaganda. There are 5-6 people from both sides of the fence that need to be banned. Thats all. Instead You elect to restrict the thread to every other user. Its not the sources (biased or not ) that are the cause of the problem, its the users commentary,, constant accusations and douchebaggery.
Pathetic Greta hater.
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
July 18 2014 06:40 GMT
#24
I'll just point out that I'm disappointed. After the closing of the Ukraine Thread I wrote a rather extensive note on the reasons why I thought the thread failed, and one of the main issues was an overly formulaic approach to moderation. In the new thread, the response is even more formulaic.

Also, if you edit my posts, please be so kind as to let me know. I'd like to be able to refer to my posts without making a fool of myself.
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
Steveling
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Greece10806 Posts
July 18 2014 06:46 GMT
#25
This is Goebellian, not gonna lie.
My dick has shrunk to the point where it looks like I have 3 balls.
mdb
Profile Blog Joined February 2003
Bulgaria4059 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-18 07:41:59
July 18 2014 07:37 GMT
#26
I would like to see examples of "neutral media" from Plexa.
ferdkuh
Profile Joined January 2013
10 Posts
July 18 2014 10:19 GMT
#27
To be honest, I find this extremely disappointing. While this is your message board and you can do as you please, this is nothing but censoring which is in any case wrong. I cannot see how it is supporting the sincerity of this this discussion in any way. Claiming that all media sources outside Russia and its "puppet states" are neutral is just plain ludicrous. Still scared? http://vimeo.com/87939821
Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-18 12:06:01
July 18 2014 12:04 GMT
#28
If anyone wonders whether banning Russian sources is a good idea take a look at these
*warning disturbing photos inside*
http://www.examiner.com/list/russia-s-top-20-lies-about-ukraine
http://www.examiner.com/list/russia-s-top-40-lies-about-ukraine
http://www.examiner.com/list/russia-s-top-60-lies-about-ukraine
http://www.examiner.com/list/russia-s-top-80-lies-about-ukraine
datscilly
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States529 Posts
July 18 2014 15:58 GMT
#29
Are we allowed to post this reddit thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/2b16kz/as_putin_blames_ukraine_for_mh17_tragedy_video/ ?
If not, are we allowed to post the neutral news source (http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/malaysia-airlines-mh17-shot-down-tragedy-deaths-buk-missile-launcher-video-putin-russia-ukraine-obama-brits-dead-9613730.html) and then add that it is "a top submission on reddit"?
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-18 16:04:23
July 18 2014 16:04 GMT
#30
With the current policy in the thead it doesn't really make sense to continue it. Please just ban all the tinfoil people, it's really not our fault that 8/10 Russian posters in the thread are brainwashed beyond repair. There's factual evidence that's pointing very strongly in one direction, and most major news sites are reflecting that, too.
Jormundr
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1678 Posts
July 18 2014 16:08 GMT
#31
You can post news. Don't post about its 'reddit credibility' because that means absolutely nothing here. Definitely do not cite any sort of reddit comment. Redditors are not an authority on anything; they have no credibility. That link isn't solid, and doesn't really add anything to the thread. A london tabloid saying that "The SBU said..." doesn't give any more weight to what the SBU has claimed so far.
Capitalism is beneficial for people who work harder than other people. Under capitalism the only way to make more money is to work harder then your competitors whether they be other companies or workers. ~ Vegetarian
Sjokola
Profile Joined November 2010
Netherlands800 Posts
July 18 2014 17:08 GMT
#32
I think it's the right thing to do to make people cite sources, but I think the thread is being moderated to harshly.
Like this one showing Russian media changing what they're reporting. Or this one asking someone what Russian media says. I always liked the fact that on TL I could get information from different angles.
datscilly
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States529 Posts
July 18 2014 17:20 GMT
#33
On July 19 2014 01:08 Jormundr wrote:
You can post news. Don't post about its 'reddit credibility' because that means absolutely nothing here. Definitely do not cite any sort of reddit comment. Redditors are not an authority on anything; they have no credibility. That link isn't solid, and doesn't really add anything to the thread. A london tabloid saying that "The SBU said..." doesn't give any more weight to what the SBU has claimed so far.


While I agree that individual redditors are not proper sources, I disagree that Reddit itself has little credibility. In fact, many people have given up on reading the "major news outlets" and instead rely on various online sites for their sources of information.

Teamliquid is a place where people discuss and form their opinions as well. If there is a mod note that essentially says "free discussion is not allowed", is that doing a service or disservice to the community?

My point of mentioning reddit is, since the discussion is stifled here + Show Spoiler +
even if possibly for a good reason
, I wish to point them to a place where the discussion is not stifled. There is a lot of interesting information in that reddit thread which is missing from the teamliquid thread.
Jormundr
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1678 Posts
July 18 2014 17:28 GMT
#34
On July 19 2014 02:20 datscilly wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2014 01:08 Jormundr wrote:
You can post news. Don't post about its 'reddit credibility' because that means absolutely nothing here. Definitely do not cite any sort of reddit comment. Redditors are not an authority on anything; they have no credibility. That link isn't solid, and doesn't really add anything to the thread. A london tabloid saying that "The SBU said..." doesn't give any more weight to what the SBU has claimed so far.


While I agree that individual redditors are not proper sources, I disagree that Reddit itself has little credibility. In fact, many people have given up on reading the "major news outlets" and instead rely on various online sites for their sources of information.

Teamliquid is a place where people discuss and form their opinions as well. If there is a mod note that essentially says "free discussion is not allowed", is that doing a service or disservice to the community?

My point of mentioning reddit is, since the discussion is stifled here + Show Spoiler +
even if possibly for a good reason
, I wish to point them to a place where the discussion is not stifled. There is a lot of interesting information in that reddit thread which is missing from the teamliquid thread.

Free discussion is allowed. Blatant bullshitting from Ukrainians and Russians (which is the history of unmoderated internet discourse of the issue) is not.
Capitalism is beneficial for people who work harder than other people. Under capitalism the only way to make more money is to work harder then your competitors whether they be other companies or workers. ~ Vegetarian
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
July 18 2014 18:25 GMT
#35
I got warned etc in the ukrainian thread, i disagree with most people here. I actually think that the frame that the moderation gives people in that thread is enough to have a good discussion. It sifts out the conspiracy bullshit that the ukraine-thread suffered from, which made it unbearable in the end. It also sifts out bullshitsources like RT, frequently cited by some people (guess we all know the names).

If someone cites CNN on something, you can analyse it, or take it with a grain of salt. You can discuss the quote for what it's worth. Almost 100% of the russian sources are just idiocy on the other hand, and take alot away from proper discussions.

So, in the end, i agree with those rules. Not that i would've had a choice anyway.
On track to MA1950A.
TheBloodyDwarf
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
Finland7524 Posts
July 18 2014 18:42 GMT
#36
You should be allowed to post official statements or videos by rebels, ukraine or russia. I mean official. But ofc you should not be able to claim something with them. It is interesting to see/read what they say/show.

For example SBU video. You should be able to post it and discussion of it. Claiming things is totaly different.
Fusilero: "I still can't believe he did that, like dude what the fuck there's fandom and then there's what he did like holy shit. I still see it when I close my eyes." <- reaction to the original drunk santa post which later caught on
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-18 18:53:08
July 18 2014 18:51 GMT
#37
On July 19 2014 03:42 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
You should be allowed to post official statements or videos by rebels, ukraine or russia. I mean official. But ofc you should not be able to claim something with them. It is interesting to see/read what they say/show.

For example SBU video. You should be able to post it and discussion of it. Claiming things is totaly different.


What good would that do? I can give you all the official statements from all sides right here, right now. "Wasn't us, was them.".

Done. As if the rebels, ukraine or russia would actually say "well it was us, sorry". The only thing the perpetrator would do is try to obfuscate the truth. I don't think that's interesting, but rather annoying. The obfuscating as much as hysterical fingerpointing.

edit: or do you actually think if the ukraine is guilty for that tragedy, the SBU (the secret service, come on) would help in the slightest to uncover that?

The "rebels" already deleted all the tweets that could be used as information on what happened (the tweets about them shooting down a cargo plane for example, even though no cargo plane is missing) - what do you think will be their next statement?

It's just crap, sorry.
On track to MA1950A.
TheBloodyDwarf
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
Finland7524 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-18 18:58:56
July 18 2014 18:56 GMT
#38
On July 19 2014 03:51 m4ini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2014 03:42 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
You should be allowed to post official statements or videos by rebels, ukraine or russia. I mean official. But ofc you should not be able to claim something with them. It is interesting to see/read what they say/show.

For example SBU video. You should be able to post it and discussion of it. Claiming things is totaly different.


What good would that do? I can give you all the official statements from all sides right here, right now. "Wasn't us, was them.".

Done. As if the rebels, ukraine or russia would actually say "well it was us, sorry". The only thing the perpetrator would do is try to obfuscate the truth. I don't think that's interesting, but rather annoying. The obfuscating as much as hysterical fingerpointing.

edit: or do you actually think if the ukraine is guilty for that tragedy, the SBU (the secret service, come on) would help in the slightest to uncover that?

The "rebels" already deleted all the tweets that could be used as information on what happened (the tweets about them shooting down a cargo plane for example, even though no cargo plane is missing) - what do you think will be their next statement?

It's just crap, sorry.

Nah, they just don't say "it wasn't us, it was them". I want to see whole picture. How they claim their things? Who says what. That's interesting and it's important what they say. It's happening on their land.

no, it isn't crap.
Fusilero: "I still can't believe he did that, like dude what the fuck there's fandom and then there's what he did like holy shit. I still see it when I close my eyes." <- reaction to the original drunk santa post which later caught on
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-18 19:08:29
July 18 2014 19:06 GMT
#39
On July 19 2014 03:56 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2014 03:51 m4ini wrote:
On July 19 2014 03:42 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
You should be allowed to post official statements or videos by rebels, ukraine or russia. I mean official. But ofc you should not be able to claim something with them. It is interesting to see/read what they say/show.

For example SBU video. You should be able to post it and discussion of it. Claiming things is totaly different.


What good would that do? I can give you all the official statements from all sides right here, right now. "Wasn't us, was them.".

Done. As if the rebels, ukraine or russia would actually say "well it was us, sorry". The only thing the perpetrator would do is try to obfuscate the truth. I don't think that's interesting, but rather annoying. The obfuscating as much as hysterical fingerpointing.

edit: or do you actually think if the ukraine is guilty for that tragedy, the SBU (the secret service, come on) would help in the slightest to uncover that?

The "rebels" already deleted all the tweets that could be used as information on what happened (the tweets about them shooting down a cargo plane for example, even though no cargo plane is missing) - what do you think will be their next statement?

It's just crap, sorry.

Nah, they just don't say "it wasn't us, it was them". I want to see whole picture. How they claim their things? Who says what. That's interesting and it's important what they say. It's happening on their land.

no, it isn't crap.


They don't? Just go on the respective newssites and read, wtf. If you want to see the whole picture, you don't go to sources that potentially want to hide something. That's the dumbest thing you can do.

Not to mention, you can do that just fine. You're not allowed to discuss it in this thread, but you can totally read whatever you want. Who says what was pretty clear, russia says it's ukraines fault, the rebels deleted all their tweets and remain rather silent (even though the resignation of their "commander" is quite telling), the ukraine points to rebels. There. That's all the info you get on ukrainian/russian sources.

Who gives a shit about "how they claim things", if one of them 100% lies anyway? It was either russia, ukraine or the rebels. As long as you don't know which one of these three sources is guilty, what point is there to read their "news"?

That's literally the least important thing. And that "it's happening on their land" crap, gtfo. Neither the ukrainians, nor the russians or the rebels were truthful when it came to euromaidan. Not even remotely. They all hid their wrongdoings, why would it be different this time.

edit: not discussing here though, was my last post about this. As a sidenote though: bs like this derailed the ukraine thread.
On track to MA1950A.
TheBloodyDwarf
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
Finland7524 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-18 19:39:03
July 18 2014 19:34 GMT
#40
On July 19 2014 04:06 m4ini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2014 03:56 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
On July 19 2014 03:51 m4ini wrote:
On July 19 2014 03:42 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
You should be allowed to post official statements or videos by rebels, ukraine or russia. I mean official. But ofc you should not be able to claim something with them. It is interesting to see/read what they say/show.

For example SBU video. You should be able to post it and discussion of it. Claiming things is totaly different.


What good would that do? I can give you all the official statements from all sides right here, right now. "Wasn't us, was them.".

Done. As if the rebels, ukraine or russia would actually say "well it was us, sorry". The only thing the perpetrator would do is try to obfuscate the truth. I don't think that's interesting, but rather annoying. The obfuscating as much as hysterical fingerpointing.

edit: or do you actually think if the ukraine is guilty for that tragedy, the SBU (the secret service, come on) would help in the slightest to uncover that?

The "rebels" already deleted all the tweets that could be used as information on what happened (the tweets about them shooting down a cargo plane for example, even though no cargo plane is missing) - what do you think will be their next statement?

It's just crap, sorry.

Nah, they just don't say "it wasn't us, it was them". I want to see whole picture. How they claim their things? Who says what. That's interesting and it's important what they say. It's happening on their land.

no, it isn't crap.


They don't? Just go on the respective newssites and read, wtf. If you want to see the whole picture, you don't go to sources that potentially want to hide something. That's the dumbest thing you can do.

Not to mention, you can do that just fine. You're not allowed to discuss it in this thread, but you can totally read whatever you want. Who says what was pretty clear, russia says it's ukraines fault, the rebels deleted all their tweets and remain rather silent (even though the resignation of their "commander" is quite telling), the ukraine points to rebels. There. That's all the info you get on ukrainian/russian sources.

Who gives a shit about "how they claim things", if one of them 100% lies anyway? It was either russia, ukraine or the rebels. As long as you don't know which one of these three sources is guilty, what point is there to read their "news"?

That's literally the least important thing. And that "it's happening on their land" crap, gtfo. Neither the ukrainians, nor the russians or the rebels were truthful when it came to euromaidan. Not even remotely. They all hid their wrongdoings, why would it be different this time.

edit: not discussing here though, was my last post about this. As a sidenote though: bs like this derailed the ukraine thread.

omg you still dont understand. If you are going down to that path how do you know who lies?

Who gives a shit about "how they claim things", if one of them 100% lies anyway? It was either russia, ukraine or the rebels. As long as you don't know which one of these three sources is guilty, what point is there to read their "news"?

"Oh ye they are biased let's ban them totaly" That's like saying to accused murder that you can't defend yourself coz you are biased.

And you make it sound like I read those coz I want to know full truth from them? "gtfo"

You still fail to understand that somebody wants to see bigger picture than just what CNN, BBC, twitter or finnish media says.

They don't? Just go on the respective newssites and read, wtf. If you want to see the whole picture, you don't go to sources that potentially want to hide something. That's the dumbest thing you can do.
What somebody hides, another one finds.
Fusilero: "I still can't believe he did that, like dude what the fuck there's fandom and then there's what he did like holy shit. I still see it when I close my eyes." <- reaction to the original drunk santa post which later caught on
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 45m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Serral 1567
mouzHeroMarine 428
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 956
BeSt 409
Leta 226
Dewaltoss 121
Sexy 36
Trap 27
ProTech10
Dota 2
Gorgc19793
qojqva1697
420jenkins216
BananaSlamJamma105
LuMiX0
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss885
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu325
Trikslyr75
Other Games
Grubby2440
B2W.Neo767
Beastyqt583
FrodaN527
ToD198
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• 3DClanTV 51
• Hupsaiya 11
• Hinosc 9
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix10
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2201
• WagamamaTV511
League of Legends
• Jankos2352
• Nemesis2268
• TFBlade945
Other Games
• imaqtpie718
• Shiphtur407
Upcoming Events
OSC
3h 45m
KCM Race Survival
14h 45m
IntoTheTV X SOOP
15h 45m
SHIN vs GuMiho
Clem vs Classic
OSC
1d 2h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 16h
GSL
1d 16h
Epic.LAN
1d 17h
Replay Cast
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Epic.LAN
2 days
[ Show More ]
AI Arena Tournament
2 days
Yamato Cup
3 days
Map Test Tournament
4 days
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Rogue vs Classic
Patches Events
5 days
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-10-27
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

IPSL Winter 2026-27
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.