• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 00:22
CET 06:22
KST 14:22
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT25Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book18Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Feb 16-22): MaxPax doubles0Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up2ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0241LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)46Weekly Cups (Feb 2-8): Classic, Solar, MaxPax win2
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Feb 16-22): MaxPax doubles How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT Liquipedia WCS Portal Launched
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) How do the "codes" work in GSL? LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ? [A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare Mutation # 512 Overclocked
Brood War
General
CasterMuse Youtube A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone A new season just kicks off Recent recommended BW games BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [LIVE] [S:21] ASL Season Open Day 1 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Fighting Spirit mining rates Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread New broswer game : STG-World Diablo 2 thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Mexico's Drug War Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Ask and answer stupid questions here!
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Inside the Communication of …
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1994 users

[D] A Serious Discussion about Serious Discussions

Forum Index > Website Feedback
Post a Reply
1 2 3 Next All
zomgzergrush
Profile Joined August 2008
United States923 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-10 02:39:36
April 09 2010 23:21 GMT
#1
Serious discussions are not when you have an OP that says: This serious discussion topic is seriously overpowered. XYZ. Add laser beams to ZYX to balance and change damage/armor to 123.

You guys realize that:

1. Blizz probably isn't gonna add laser beams to ZYX. Adding laser beams to ZYX, changing damage/armor/hp requires a serious amount of balance with most of the rest of the game.

2. Because of this, your best approach instead of complaining about imbalance and how to change the mecanic/unit/spell, make these discussions about how to solve the issue on the PLAYER SIDE. What have you seen that works? What have you been DOING that works/doesn't work?

3. As a result of 1 and 2, these threads are pretty much a complete waste of time and are not constructive at all. The game is still in beta, christ.

I really wish more of the focus would be on what to DO vs XYZ. All these topic starters seem to forget that SC2 != SC1 (notequal) and SC1 tactics we know and take for granted today took YEARS to develop. Hell, terran was considered the weakest race for many years before boxer arrived.

Do we really need to contest the imbalance of every single unit, spell and mechanic of the game in a new thread each time? At least plug all this stuff into some master thread or something.

I mean seriously, Y SO SRS?

If this is in the wrong section, my apologies, please move it to the right place mods. I felt it appropriate to include it where all the other "serious discussions" were.
Bronze skipping straight to Diamond in 40 games retail release. Bnet 2.0 ladder really takes it's sweet time to think about that league placement.
ZenDeX
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Philippines2916 Posts
April 09 2010 23:30 GMT
#2
Crunching numbers in the OP should be mandatory in "Serious Discussions".
Setz3R
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States455 Posts
April 09 2010 23:31 GMT
#3
I'm confused, zealots aren't getting lasers? damn...
twitch.tv/setz3r
2SCV1cup
Profile Joined April 2010
69 Posts
April 09 2010 23:32 GMT
#4
good thread
would read again
Irrelevant
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2364 Posts
April 09 2010 23:32 GMT
#5
On April 10 2010 08:31 Legendary- wrote:
I'm confused, zealots aren't getting lasers? damn...

they have lazer knives
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
April 09 2010 23:34 GMT
#6
Thank god for voices of reason: As day9 always says, the game has set rules, you just need to be able adapt to them.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
The6357
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States1268 Posts
April 09 2010 23:34 GMT
#7
this is serious...
2010 worldcup!! corea fighting!!!
mrmin123 *
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
Korea (South)2971 Posts
April 09 2010 23:35 GMT
#8
On April 10 2010 08:32 Irrelevant wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2010 08:31 Legendary- wrote:
I'm confused, zealots aren't getting lasers? damn...

they have lazer knives

Clearly OP means that zealots will be balanced when and only if they get lazer gunz.
Translator태양은 묘지위에 붉게 떠오르고 / 한낮에 찌는 더위는 나의 시련 일찌라!
zizzefex
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada34 Posts
April 09 2010 23:41 GMT
#9
BUT I LOST GAMES TO YOUR SERIOUS DISCUSSIONS. And clearly it wasn't my fault at all.
OHtRUe
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States283 Posts
April 09 2010 23:44 GMT
#10
So a game in beta should not have any discussions about balance. Will do.....
d_so
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)3262 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-09 23:48:00
April 09 2010 23:46 GMT
#11
all strategy threads should be serious discussios

edit: as in, you shouldn't have to title your thread redundantly
manner
zomgzergrush
Profile Joined August 2008
United States923 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-09 23:50:27
April 09 2010 23:49 GMT
#12
On April 10 2010 08:44 OHtRUe wrote:
So a game in beta should not have any discussions about balance. Will do.....

A "balance discussion" is not when one person exclaims that a particular aspect of the game is broken and does not heed to anyone else's input. This is true of everyone that starts these damn imba threads. If that's the way you're gonna play the ball, why even bother posting when you clearly won't have your opinion changed?

Does it strike you as such a crazy idea that MAYBE the state of the aspect is not broken?

How long have we been in beta? bottom line is that we don't know shit about this game yet and anyone who insists they do at this point and are screaming imba is seriously misguided.

On April 10 2010 08:34 Two_DoWn wrote:
Thank god for voices of reason: As day9 always says, the game has set rules, you just need to be able adapt to them.

Bronze skipping straight to Diamond in 40 games retail release. Bnet 2.0 ladder really takes it's sweet time to think about that league placement.
hellitsaboutme
Profile Joined March 2010
Singapore118 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-09 23:50:37
April 09 2010 23:50 GMT
#13
About SC1 vs SC2, generally they are different.

But macro concept is the same.
- zerg = crazy macro/mass units
- terran = turtle
- protoss = ??? = profit
zomgzergrush
Profile Joined August 2008
United States923 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-09 23:52:57
April 09 2010 23:51 GMT
#14
On April 10 2010 08:50 hellitsaboutme wrote:
About SC1 vs SC2, generally they are different.

But macro concept is the same.
- zerg = crazy macro/mass units
- terran = turtle
- protoss = ??? = profit

I'll try not to be a hypocrite, either, and take note with others opinions. Admittedly they are similar, but still not equal.

Yeah, but if even one aspect is different, that means they're not equal. The consequences of that single aspect that is different in respect to the rest of the game can't be known for sure yet. One single change means a largely different game. We have an extremely biased mindset right now due to BW.
Bronze skipping straight to Diamond in 40 games retail release. Bnet 2.0 ladder really takes it's sweet time to think about that league placement.
Archerofaiur
Profile Joined August 2008
United States4101 Posts
April 09 2010 23:56 GMT
#15
Im being super serious guys...
http://sclegacy.com/news/28-scl/250-starcraftlegacy-macro-theorycrafting-contest-winners
NicolBolas
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1388 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-09 23:58:00
April 09 2010 23:57 GMT
#16
On April 10 2010 08:49 zomgzergrush wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2010 08:44 OHtRUe wrote:
So a game in beta should not have any discussions about balance. Will do.....

A "balance discussion" is not when one person exclaims that a particular aspect of the game is broken and does not heed to anyone else's input. This is true of everyone that starts these damn imba threads. If that's the way you're gonna play the ball, why even bother posting when you clearly won't have your opinion changed?

Does it strike you as such a crazy idea that MAYBE the state of the aspect is not broken?

How long have we been in beta? bottom line is that we don't know shit about this game yet and anyone who insists they do at this point and are screaming imba is seriously misguided.


If that's true, then how has Blizzard been making changes? Presumably, their changes are designed to improve balance and remove imbalanced things. If all arguments about imbalance are "seriously misguided," then what arguments does Blizzard use to decide what to change?

I agree that there is a great deal of needless grousing about things that clearly aren't a balance issue. But that's simply what's going to happen when you have a game in a malleable state: people are going to put forth their opinions. Not everyone's opinions are well-informed or well-considered; that's just as true for SC1 as for SC2.

So what exactly is it that you want? No threads about whether any particular aspect of the game is unbalanced or imbalanced? That people in a beta be unable to even ask the question? It seems counterproductive to the purpose of a beta.

The mindset of a beta tester is, and must be, different from the mindset of a player.
So you know, cats are interesting. They are kind of like girls. If they come up and talk to you, it's great. But if you try to talk to them, it doesn't always go so well. - Shigeru Miyamoto
Foreplay
Profile Joined May 2008
United States1154 Posts
April 09 2010 23:58 GMT
#17
lol i was just starting to notice there is a "serious discussion" thread for just about every unit in the game.
Better than Pokebunny
DefMatrixUltra
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada1992 Posts
April 09 2010 23:59 GMT
#18
The threads labeled Serious Discussion should be ban-happy territory. If the OP + responders do not put effort or thought into their posts, they should just get banned. Labeling a thread as such (or coming into a thread labeled as such) and then just shitting all over the keyboard just clutters the SC2 forums with even more useless crap than it already has.
Shiladie
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada1631 Posts
April 10 2010 00:02 GMT
#19
throwing around things to be added because of balance vs other races is bad posting
Instead make your discussions built around the compared effectiveness of different units within the race at doing what you want.

X unit needs help because it is not cost effective in XYZ situations vs Y unit of the same race etc.

if you come in complaining about balance saying whatever race you play needs whateverthefuck for buffs you come off as a clammoring race-fanboi.
zomgzergrush
Profile Joined August 2008
United States923 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-10 00:03:36
April 10 2010 00:02 GMT
#20
On April 10 2010 08:57 NicolBolas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2010 08:49 zomgzergrush wrote:
On April 10 2010 08:44 OHtRUe wrote:
So a game in beta should not have any discussions about balance. Will do.....

A "balance discussion" is not when one person exclaims that a particular aspect of the game is broken and does not heed to anyone else's input. This is true of everyone that starts these damn imba threads. If that's the way you're gonna play the ball, why even bother posting when you clearly won't have your opinion changed?

Does it strike you as such a crazy idea that MAYBE the state of the aspect is not broken?

How long have we been in beta? bottom line is that we don't know shit about this game yet and anyone who insists they do at this point and are screaming imba is seriously misguided.


If that's true, then how has Blizzard been making changes? Presumably, their changes are designed to improve balance and remove imbalanced things. If all arguments about imbalance are "seriously misguided," then what arguments does Blizzard use to decide what to change?

I agree that there is a great deal of needless grousing about things that clearly aren't a balance issue. But that's simply what's going to happen when you have a game in a malleable state: people are going to put forth their opinions. Not everyone's opinions are well-informed or well-considered; that's just as true for SC1 as for SC2.

So what exactly is it that you want? No threads about whether any particular aspect of the game is unbalanced or imbalanced? That people in a beta be unable to even ask the question? It seems counterproductive to the purpose of a beta.

The mindset of a beta tester is, and must be, different from the mindset of a player.


Go to battle net forums. There's plenty of comments about imbalance everywhere on every aspect there. Battle.net forum and in-house testing is where the majority of blizz' changes are done.

Did anyone SAY that infestors needed a friggen neural parasite range change? Did anyone here say that that was EXACTLY what was needed so that we'll use it more?

The fact of the matter is, like 95% of these posts are absolute garbage to begin with and have no basis. Most of them will continue to exclaim that they are of some arbitrary rank that cannot be proven.

On April 10 2010 08:58 Foreplay wrote:
lol i was just starting to notice there is a "serious discussion" thread for just about every unit in the game.

The exact reason why I started this thread.
Bronze skipping straight to Diamond in 40 games retail release. Bnet 2.0 ladder really takes it's sweet time to think about that league placement.
1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
00:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #17.5
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft335
NeuroSwarm 111
SpeCial 107
mcanning 74
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 30348
Sea 2260
GuemChi 1269
Tasteless 162
NaDa 27
Icarus 16
League of Legends
JimRising 705
Counter-Strike
Coldzera 1573
Stewie2K524
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox1127
C9.Mang0515
Mew2King26
Other Games
summit1g12006
WinterStarcraft384
monkeys_forever206
RuFF_SC2135
Maynarde105
ZombieGrub50
minikerr4
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick730
Counter-Strike
PGL645
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Light_VIP 39
• practicex 15
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Diggity4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Scarra2655
• Lourlo1545
• Stunt438
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Winter Champion…
6h 38m
Replay Cast
1d 3h
WardiTV Winter Champion…
1d 6h
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Korean StarCraft League
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
SC Evo Complete
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
[ Show More ]
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-02-22
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Acropolis #4 - TS5
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
Spring Cup 2026
WardiTV Winter 2026
PiG Sty Festival 7.0
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025

Upcoming

[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round Qualifier
Acropolis #4 - TS6
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.