5 hatch hydras, but somehow he has so much bigger army than mine,why we hade similiar apm, is he smurf of something like that, i am about 1450 mmr, getting frustrated to be rekt like this
(H) ZvP again?
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AcMilan91
105 Posts
5 hatch hydras, but somehow he has so much bigger army than mine,why we hade similiar apm, is he smurf of something like that, i am about 1450 mmr, getting frustrated to be rekt like this | ||
Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
-Over reacted and made two sunkens in your natural -Supply blocked for ages -Delayed your lair by like 5-6s -Creep colony at your third for no reason -Mining second gas even you cant support anything with your drone count -Thus it cripples your economy -You start sunkening up all over the place because you cant defend your third ramp, wouldnt of had to do this if you took the natural -Going 5 hatch hydra but doesnt even have 5th hatch by 7:30, should of been down ages before this -You also skipped spire after your lair, which is the standard play to do. I recommend doing 3 hatch spire into 5 hatch. -You got overlord sight range, which was pointless. -Lack of tech (spire/scourge), lack of droning has left you blind and behind, he does some good eco damage. -Toss runs you over as hes been ahead all game. getting frustrated to be rekt like this Get used to it, thats what broodwar is. Never going to be a point where someone doesnt rek you. | ||
Ramiel
United States1220 Posts
You are not even following a build order from what i can tell. Best advice I can give you- go into a game with no other players, and practice this build to perfection. You should never have an idle worker, your minerals should never go above 100 before 30 supply, you should never be supply blocked. All of your mining bases should have nice saturation. IE you shouldn't have 1230947102348 drones in your main and 4 at your nat, and 2344 at your 3rd. Do this 12 times. Then watch FPVOD's of pros using this build. Study the vods, watch them- emulate what they are doing. Recognize the flow of their build, and how they are playing into the P. Then try playing someone. They are going to harass you, you are going to need to scout, build zerglings in response to their zealot pressure and micro your zerglings. You'll start seeing improvement when you can do all of those things- and your build is still spot on. However at your level, even doing one of those things (while keeping your build order intact) is still beyond your mechanics. Just focus on your mechanics. Once you get past that threshold, and can properly perform builds- you'll see yourself having a very easy time against 1400ish opponents. | ||
AcMilan91
105 Posts
On September 11 2017 05:47 Ramiel wrote: 1900s mmr zerg here: You are not even following a build order from what i can tell. Best advice I can give you- go into a game with no other players, and practice this build to perfection. You should never have an idle worker, your minerals should never go above 100 before 30 supply, you should never be supply blocked. All of your mining bases should have nice saturation. IE you shouldn't have 1230947102348 drones in your main and 4 at your nat, and 2344 at your 3rd. Do this 12 times. Then watch FPVOD's of pros using this build. Study the vods, watch them- emulate what they are doing. Recognize the flow of their build, and how they are playing into the P. Then try playing someone. They are going to harass you, you are going to need to scout, build zerglings in response to their zealot pressure and micro your zerglings. You'll start seeing improvement when you can do all of those things- and your build is still spot on. However at your level, even doing one of those things (while keeping your build order intact) is still beyond your mechanics. Just focus on your mechanics. Once you get past that threshold, and can properly perform builds- you'll see yourself having a very easy time against 1400ish opponents. thanks, can you tell me how to scout ? | ||
Ramiel
United States1220 Posts
On September 11 2017 05:52 AcMilan91 wrote: thanks, can you tell me how to scout ? Tell me you're joking. | ||
AcMilan91
105 Posts
not early i mean mid game, i cant get through an army with drone, lings etc. maybe to send scourges? | ||
-Frog-
United States514 Posts
On September 11 2017 07:08 AcMilan91 wrote: not early i mean mid game, i cant get through an army with drone, lings etc. maybe to send scourges? zerg always has a big scouting advantage over protoss, after the FE wall in is complete you park your overlord outside his natural to watch for zealot movement and you can make lings in response. around the timing that your spire starts you can send this overlord into his base to check what he's doing. you'll be looking for # of gateways, # of stargates and any other tech. typically protoss builds citadel and then templar archives but you want to make sure he's not going robo for reaver tech after the corsairs come out theyll kill that overlord and you will have to rely on your first 4 scourge to 1. kill the corsair or drive it back to his base and 2. to scout his base | ||
Netto.
Poland522 Posts
On September 11 2017 07:08 AcMilan91 wrote: not early i mean mid game, i cant get through an army with drone, lings etc. maybe to send scourges? Normally you scout with your drone, later u can park one overlord close to his wall so you can see zealots moving. Another overlord in his main to see what he is doing. Later you can use scourges to take a quick look at his base. Also always look for new expansions so he doesn't sneak any hidden bases (common on this mmr). I also would like to mention that when you learn and practice your builds like people above told you, it could be useful to read some liquipedia and practice most common protoss builds too. This way you get an idea of what protoss can do and learn their basic timings - so even if you can't scout, you know what things you might expect (most of the time). | ||
AcMilan91
105 Posts
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AcMilan91
105 Posts
On September 11 2017 12:19 -Frog- wrote: what if he have goons and start killing my overlord? So just mass hydra?zerg always has a big scouting advantage over protoss, after the FE wall in is complete you park your overlord outside his natural to watch for zealot movement and you can make lings in response. around the timing that your spire starts you can send this overlord into his base to check what he's doing. you'll be looking for # of gateways, # of stargates and any other tech. typically protoss builds citadel and then templar archives but you want to make sure he's not going robo for reaver tech after the corsairs come out theyll kill that overlord and you will have to rely on your first 4 scourge to 1. kill the corsair or drive it back to his base and 2. to scout his base | ||
sCuMBaG
United Kingdom1144 Posts
On September 11 2017 20:02 AcMilan91 wrote: what if he have goons and start killing my overlord? So just mass hydra? Not quite sure what exactly you're asking here with the hydra statement. In terms of the scouting/losing the overlord - he will kill that overlord anyways as soon as his corsairs are out - so at least use it to get some information. | ||
Ramiel
United States1220 Posts
On September 11 2017 20:02 AcMilan91 wrote: what if he have goons and start killing my overlord? So just mass hydra? As I said before watch some pro gamer vods of zvp when they are using this stratagy. Watch 12 games, study them before posting here. You are going to see things like this played out again, and again. | ||
AcMilan91
105 Posts
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L_Master
United States7946 Posts
On September 16 2017 01:52 AcMilan91 wrote: summary on my new replay? 31 mins long? if someone can take a look how does he killed 15 of my ultas so ez http://bwreplays.com/d9jw9 Tell me why you think he killed so many ultras easily and what you think was good/bad, then I'll take a look at the replay. It's very good to ask lots of questions and try to learn like you are, but your own posts need a little more analysis: It's strategy forum rules, plus it helps you learn MUCH better than if we just tell you exactly what's bad. | ||
AcMilan91
105 Posts
On September 16 2017 02:08 L_Master wrote: Tell me why you think he killed so many ultras easily and what you think was good/bad, then I'll take a look at the replay. It's very good to ask lots of questions and try to learn like you are, but your own posts need a little more analysis: It's strategy forum rules, plus it helps you learn MUCH better than if we just tell you exactly what's bad. I think he did so many drops and i didnt know how to react plus i think i should not go straight for main base, but he has so many reavers and ht on choke that my units just keep dying, and i should drop on the last attack and maybe i should not ragequit it was not over yet | ||
ajmbek
Italy459 Posts
On September 11 2017 12:19 -Frog- wrote: zerg always has a big scouting advantage over protoss, after the FE wall in is complete you park your overlord outside his natural to watch for zealot movement and you can make lings in response. around the timing that your spire starts you can send this overlord into his base to check what he's doing. you'll be looking for # of gateways, # of stargates and any other tech. typically protoss builds citadel and then templar archives but you want to make sure he's not going robo for reaver tech after the corsairs come out theyll kill that overlord and you will have to rely on your first 4 scourge to 1. kill the corsair or drive it back to his base and 2. to scout his base I disagree with this scauting idea to keep the overlord at the wall of the natural. All you can see there with the ovi can be seen by 2 zerglings! The ovi must be in the main or where is the tech. You need to know it it is a +1 speedlot way before scourge time. Keep in mind that for the majority of the game it is the zerg that decides what to do and protoss have to react. And at any time you can send a speedovi to see what is caming next or to check the army composition of protoss. Also have 1 zergling at evry P possibile expansion | ||
ajmbek
Italy459 Posts
On September 11 2017 20:02 AcMilan91 wrote: what if he have goons and start killing my overlord? So just mass hydra? Well, if the bo that you are following is the 3h spire 5h hidra then your midgame idea is to mass hidras anyway. Isn't it? 1 dragon does not mean mass dragon. But 1 dragon, gates, and core spinning, can be | ||
AcMilan91
105 Posts
me and my friend playing...One base protoss, i saw that , so i went 2 hatches in neutral and then just poof i am dead..i had 3 exp he had 2 ...what is the reason i think there is something i am doing really bad... | ||
L_Master
United States7946 Posts
On September 16 2017 01:52 AcMilan91 wrote: summary on my new replay? 31 mins long? if someone can take a look how does he killed 15 of my ultas so ez http://bwreplays.com/d9jw9 Okay, so things I am seeing: -Your opponent plays gate expo, it's good you're scouting with OL, but you want to see with drone what he is doing. In case of gate expo you need to make 8 lings as soon as pool finishes, your pool has been done for a bit and no lings (or drones have been made despite zlot at your base. These zlots are probably going to hurt -Well, turns out your drilling was pretty good and the other guy got scared, so it didn't turn out bad. A better protoss would have made your life hell. -Gas is done for a LONG time before you start mining. The main point of 2 hatch -> gas -> third hatch is to get those scourge out for first sair. 20s delay totally nullifies this. -He's been saving zlots and moves out a wierd time, you're sorta ready with a sunken but it would be better if it was done. Unfortunately, your ling speed is not quite done since you were slow to mine case. Typical response here would be to keep a general tab on his zlot count and then spam a round of lings from your hatches if he moves out - You handle it fairly well, and then he gets a bit scared. Ideally that sunken would have been faster or you would have just made more lings but it turned out okay. -Spore colony in your main?! WTF.... You even saw with OL the timing of his stargate and that he wasn't making sairs, you don't even need a spore at your natural, you basically never need a spore in your main. There aren't overlords there. -Your lair finishes and you don't make a spire. Instead you make more hatches. This is a BIG deal. DON'T do this. The entire purpose of going for the quicker gas is to get that spire up. It takes you over 1:30 to make the spire. Luckily this toss wasn't making sairs but that's disaster in a more normal game. -You haven't made any major mistakes, but the small things here and there add up. You're now at 8:00 just barely reaching full saturation and ready to make hydra. That's a solid minute or more behind. Better players would be attacking you with zealot templar right now and you don't have a single hydra out. -10:30 or so is a good talking point. You went for an attack on protoss. He had too much so you turned tail and ran. However, despite having a good bit of defense you keep spamming out hydra. Protoss already repelled your attack and is taking a third. More hydra means less drones means an even weaker economy. You missed your window to apply pressure with hydra because your build wasn't executed well enough, just making more hydra will only put you further behind. You should be droning up and thinking about how you can get back in the long game. You can't overrun a 3 base toss with hydra off 6 hatch. -Well...this toss is an idiot and just stands there with his army at his natural, doesn't use his reavers, and let's you kill his third. That was a travesty that shouldn't have happened, but now this game is actually a pretty good position for you. -14:00 - No reason to try and bust. You're good and ahead. Set a contain with lurkers as you take more bases is great, but you're not at the point of invincibility where you can throw stuff at him and he'll automatically die. -3.5k minerals and gas. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. You could have 50+ more supply than you do now. You really don't want this to happen to you. If it does, spam done another 4 or 5 hatcheries. Anything to spend that money. Don't sit on a 3k bank. -Drones. You're still ahead but you've just been spamming army. Zerg is all about sneaking in drones any moment you can. Especially with his harass you barely have a two base economy. You could easily have 60 drones by now, instead you have like 25. -Your gas mining is really whacky. You are mining one gas with three drones, one with a single drone, and another with two... -Your upgrading is good, keep doing that well! -18:00 STOP TRYING TO KILL PROTOSS! Contain him, make a shit ton of drones, defend his harass, flood him with units from 10+ hatcheries. -18:00 You know protoss is harassing some. But you keep sending all of your units to his front. Why? It's one thing if you're a little unprepared for harass one, but he is flying around with reavers. Keep some units at home so his harass isn't able to be lethal. - Please don't tell me your going to let protoss take 12' for free... - You kinda realize it, but not till it's all set up and he can easily defend. Gotta watch those expos. - You're playing super "one track" First you were trying to kill protoss obsessively at his nat and never stopped making hydra. Now you're blindly attack his third. He has all his army there. Take a poke somewhere his army isn't, like his nat. Make him run around till you find a weak spot. You're not going to break a highground expo where protoss has his entire army with reaver and templar up there. -The big attack with the ultras. It doesn't work very well for you because you don't use swarm, there are no lings, protoss has a wall so all off his dragoons are attacking while only 1 of your ultras is, all your ultras clump up hard in the tight choke so he can rain down storm after storm on them. You lost a control group of ultra to like 6 templar and 8 goons. That's rough. Add lings, use swarm, pick better ways of attacking. - You're finally getting a good attack going with the reinforcements after the ultra...but unfortunatley you've mined out all your bases except one and just don't have enough economy to back it up. Toss can reinforce faster. Main thing there is that is absolutely a game you should have won. It should have gone better for you initially with your first attack, but you're build was just a little slow and inefficient. You almost loss there, but toss got stupid and gave away his third. You know have a big lead but you threw it away in three majors ways: 1) Kept spamming nothing but army instead of making some more drones 2) Failure to leave anything at home to deal with a consistent harassing protoss 3) Kept suiciding into a turtling protoss. You either need to be vigilante and notice expos before they get up, or just recognize your ahead and spam drones + expansions yourself. If toss is turtling it's because he knows he can't beat you and needs to defend bases. This is your cue that toss isn't going to do anything, so make a shitload of drones and 3 more bases. Then you have unstoppable economy and just overrun him. | ||
L_Master
United States7946 Posts
- You sorta let him do everything. He gets tech + expansion really easily, especially since you make random creep colonies. Protoss went for a tech build, you don't need one sunken colony, let alone two. You're already pretty behind. -ANOTHER pointless lair. If you're going to get a lair, USE IT. Makes lurkers or spire asap. Otherwise don't get the lair so quick. -Protoss has two bases and your spamming hydra. This indicates to me you want to kill him. Unfortunately you're pretty far behind so you probably won't be able to. - It's your friends turn for some mistakes. He hasn't been making nearly enough workers, so you're terrible economy isn't that much worse than his. He also didn't get storm and is terrified of your hydra so he reacts with a ton of cannons. Now the game is sort of even again. -You realize your attack isn't going to kill him, so you go for a third. This is good. - I'm beginning to wonder if you know what a drone is. What good is a third base if it has no drones to send to it. - Lol. You send all your drones from the natural to the third. Now there is one drone mining at the natural. So you didn't gain any mining advantage by sending those drones to the third, and in fact lost 20s of travel time not mining. It's only worth it to transfer drones if you have more than 1 per patch. - The main thing keeping you in this game is that your friend can't wait for his templar and keeps donating groups of 4-6 zlots to you so he never gets an army. - Same problem as last game, all hydra at his base and non at home so he fucks up overlords. - You go for a bust. It's a bad decision overall with all those cannons...but you played it really nice once you had the opening with the lurkers. You shouldn't have done it, but your on the fly decision making was excellent and it turned into a good move. - Unfortunately you don't seem aware of what is going on for him at 3'... - 17:00 that was fucking awkward. You had plenty of army to defend, and had actually added some drones as well, but you just let him walk to the bottom base and then go up and kill your third as you got blocked by your own defense. Let me reiterate: You had 2 sunkens, 7 lurkers, 20 hydras and you lost your third to 9 zlots and 2 goons. -18:00 panic mode and you go for a suicide attack. Not that it really matters after what happened at 17:00. That moment at 17:00 went from you being marginally behind to completely dead. On September 17 2017 02:16 AcMilan91 wrote: http://bwreplays.com/ajsdp me and my friend playing...One base protoss, i saw that , so i went 2 hatches in neutral and then just poof i am dead..i had 3 exp he had 2 ...what is the reason i think there is something i am doing really bad... Yep. You died cause you let his tiny army kill your base when you had defense there + an army twice as big including lurkers which fuck up his almost all zlot force. It should be pretty obvious watching the replay that army should never have hurt you... | ||
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