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On October 29 2011 15:09 PikaXchU wrote: San had no AOE against MarineKing's huge marine army. I don't think any explaination is needed for the amount of DPS 20~30 marines with 2 attack can do to a zealot archon army.
Archons no longer do AOE? That's news.
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On October 29 2011 15:10 tomatriedes wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 15:07 Liph wrote: is there any explanation for why we've been seeing so much heavy gateway with immortals play from the two protosses vs terran today. I don't understand why we aren't seeing heavier colossi high templar play against terran when we've seen in every match a t has won, theyve had so many marines wrecking face at the end of battles.
what is the explanation for this? It's not like terran wouldn't react differently. If the toss gets colossi instead of archons the terran makes vikings and with good control can snipe some of them before the battle even starts. Having both is nice but it's hard to get enough gas for that until you have four bases or so up.
colossus > marinekings build (assuming marineking didnt react and went the same unit composition)
marines melt gateway units, but colossus absolutely WRECKS marines, even in the presence of vikings.
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damn, who do I root for, manzenith or sC?
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On October 29 2011 15:07 eviltomahawk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 15:03 Heavenly wrote:On October 29 2011 14:57 eviltomahawk wrote:On October 29 2011 14:54 Heavenly wrote: I'm kind of halfwatching but was there a reason he didn't immediately focus on the SCV building the CC..? Maybe because it was a rather fast CC? It may have been a 14cc or 15cc, though I may be mistaken. Pretty greedy play, but MKP likes this kind of stuff. And nice hold from MKP against San's push. Yeah, so why didn't San target down the SCV to stop the CC from being built when no marines were out? Oh, I thought you meant the in-game observer I actually didn't watch that part, but maybe San thought there were more Marines out?
Nope, it was CC first I thought and I didn't even see an extra SCV near the CC. He just ran his probe around in MKP's base for like 30 seconds then started attacking the SCV right before the CC completed. Just made no sense to me.
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San was pretty behind in tech because he decided to do a 4 gate pressure while marineking already had his starport making and stim combat shields near done.
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For those of you saying Archons are AoE : San had like 3 Archons and way too many Zealots. Not enough AoE.
Also, San was pretty much stuck on 2 base. He was going double forge, he already had templar tech. He couldn't switch to colossus at any point in that game.
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United States23455 Posts
Come on, San. Win your first PvP in a century.
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It's funny how Oz doesn't get hype because he is so damn good. People need to stop only hyping up whoever Artosis says is good.
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On October 29 2011 15:11 tomatriedes wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 15:09 PikaXchU wrote: San had no AOE against MarineKing's huge marine army. I don't think any explaination is needed for the amount of DPS 20~30 marines with 2 attack can do to a zealot archon army. Archons no longer do AOE? That's news.
If only Archons move as fast as Marines do with stim? Stuff like Colossus and Storm are so much better because of the range and the larger AOE compared to Archons.
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Come on Oz. T_T
Also, I feel like even a warp prism in that San vs MKP game would've been beneficial for the final engagement. Warp in ~2 rounds of zealots behind MKP's army so your archons actually have some time to get big shots off.
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On October 29 2011 15:12 akalarry wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 15:10 tomatriedes wrote:On October 29 2011 15:07 Liph wrote: is there any explanation for why we've been seeing so much heavy gateway with immortals play from the two protosses vs terran today. I don't understand why we aren't seeing heavier colossi high templar play against terran when we've seen in every match a t has won, theyve had so many marines wrecking face at the end of battles.
what is the explanation for this? It's not like terran wouldn't react differently. If the toss gets colossi instead of archons the terran makes vikings and with good control can snipe some of them before the battle even starts. Having both is nice but it's hard to get enough gas for that until you have four bases or so up. colossus > marinekings build (assuming marineking didnt react and went the same unit composition) marines melt gateway units, but colossus absolutely WRECKS marines, even in the presence of vikings.
You totally missed the point. I said a good terran would react after scouting.
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As a random mid masters player stutter step micro is infinitely easier to pull off then constantly spreading in every place in the map as protoss without a mistake. It's frustrating to see these underdog tosses still get such an amazing concave and attacks surface area and spread properly and still lose badly.
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Haha, is Oz ID "eZeZ"? Thats funny :D
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On October 29 2011 15:15 PikaXchU wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 15:11 tomatriedes wrote:On October 29 2011 15:09 PikaXchU wrote: San had no AOE against MarineKing's huge marine army. I don't think any explaination is needed for the amount of DPS 20~30 marines with 2 attack can do to a zealot archon army. Archons no longer do AOE? That's news. If only Archons move as fast as Marines do with stim? Stuff like Colossus and Storm are so much better because of the range and the larger AOE compared to Archons.
It's still silly to say 'no AOE'. If you had said 'not enough AOE' that would have actually made sense.
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On October 29 2011 15:15 tomatriedes wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 15:12 akalarry wrote:On October 29 2011 15:10 tomatriedes wrote:On October 29 2011 15:07 Liph wrote: is there any explanation for why we've been seeing so much heavy gateway with immortals play from the two protosses vs terran today. I don't understand why we aren't seeing heavier colossi high templar play against terran when we've seen in every match a t has won, theyve had so many marines wrecking face at the end of battles.
what is the explanation for this? It's not like terran wouldn't react differently. If the toss gets colossi instead of archons the terran makes vikings and with good control can snipe some of them before the battle even starts. Having both is nice but it's hard to get enough gas for that until you have four bases or so up. colossus > marinekings build (assuming marineking didnt react and went the same unit composition) marines melt gateway units, but colossus absolutely WRECKS marines, even in the presence of vikings. You totally missed the point. I said a good terran would react after scouting.
i'm saying reacting and only making vikings wouldn't have been enough to stop a colossus build. was emphasizing how good they are against marines.
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On October 29 2011 15:16 ZenithM wrote: Haha, is Oz ID "eZeZ"? Thats funny :D oZoZ
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What was MarineKing's opener in the last game vs San? I didn't see it.
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On October 29 2011 15:16 Liph wrote: As a random mid masters player stutter step micro is infinitely easier to pull off then constantly spreading in every place in the map as protoss without a mistake. It's frustrating to see these underdog tosses still get such an amazing concave and attacks surface area and spread properly and still lose badly. Except the surface area meant nothing when they all ended up clumped anyway as they were getting kited... Seriously, how can you expect zealot archon to win with no upgrade advantage against a tech tree that needs no improvement from the terran?
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On October 29 2011 15:19 YoiChiBow wrote: What was MarineKing's opener in the last game vs San? I didn't see it. CC first, into 2 barracks, then into 4 barracks marine marauder, with double upgrades; combat shield before stimpack.
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