[H] ZvP Archon Chargelot+2 - Page 2
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peppilepew
93 Posts
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onmach
United States1241 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20159 Posts
On October 09 2011 17:42 Lakona wrote: As a Toss player, I can say from experience that mass banelings DECIMATE THE FUCK out of zeal/archon. Forget roach/ling, that's a stupid composition against this. Just make banes. Lings to clean up afterward with any leftover minerals/larvae. Preferably with OL speed/drops. GG. I actuly enjoy fighting bane vs zeals. I can split cost effectively on toss side even with 60-80 supply armies, it takes 5 banes to kill a zeal so if less than 3 zeals on average take bane hits or you manage to land some on archons, you win the cost effectiveness battle and roll him It is always good to have 5-6 banes though so he cant ever blow zeal charge - or his entire army gets 1shot if he misclicks. If you want to beat zeal/archon, spread creep well (no mobile detection mostly) and just kite him around with GREATER ARMY VALUE of speed roaches. He cant deal with it. As said earlier in the thread, being 50 supply up is irrelevant if his ARMY VALUE is higher than yours. Good luck | ||
Cyro
United Kingdom20159 Posts
On October 10 2011 02:48 peppilepew wrote: imo you need to add hydras vs zeo archon, there dps destroys everything once they have support units like roaches I wouldnt do this ever. Zealots annihilate hydras 1v1, and hydras are more expensive. They cant run, either. Roaches are better simply because they are faster | ||
fdsdfg
United States1251 Posts
On October 10 2011 08:12 Cyro wrote: I actuly enjoy fighting bane vs zeals. I can split cost effectively on toss side even with 60-80 supply armies, it takes 5 banes to kill a zeal so if less than 3 zeals on average take bane hits or you manage to land some on archons, you win the cost effectiveness battle and roll him It is always good to have 5-6 banes though so he cant ever blow zeal charge - or his entire army gets 1shot if he misclicks. If you want to beat zeal/archon, spread creep well (no mobile detection mostly) and just kite him around with GREATER ARMY VALUE of speed roaches. He cant deal with it. As said earlier in the thread, being 50 supply up is irrelevant if his ARMY VALUE is higher than yours. Good luck You don't want to a-move your banelings into a zealot/archon ball - you want to just move through them. This gives two advantages: 1) way more splash damage (since you're not at their front lines) 2) forces the protoss army to waste shots on banes When both zealots and archons can effectively 2-shot zerglings, the latter is pretty important. Getting those numbers down early is really useful. I like bane drops too, unless they have blink stalkers. Then it feels like it's never going to work properly. | ||
fusihunter
Australia208 Posts
On October 09 2011 18:13 Lakona wrote: Fast melee upgrades would be helpful but are not necessary. Do NOT make hydras, they get ripped to shit even worse than roaches against this. Do not make roaches. Do not waste gas on infestors. Just make banelings dude. That is literally all you need to know. MAKE BANELINGS AND WIN GG EZPZ. First of all, i think burrow is really important, because if he goes templar he probably wont have an obs. How many banes do you normally have around that time? I would have thought Hydra made more sense. They synergise upgrades with the roach, and have greater range than both archons and zeals. I feel like banes are great but they can be hit and miss, whereas you have a bit more control with the hydras. If you do fend it off, you also have an army, whereas with banes you'd have to resupply. It also means he kinda has to go robo as a followup, because HT's aren't great against roaches, and Stargate isn't ideal against Hydras. So a spire is next on the shopping list, and you should be ahead if you hold it. I can see your point, but i'm just wondering if hydras are a bit safer. That does come down to how many banes you have though, and what upgrades you have, +1 attack effect the hits on a zealot? | ||
rsvp
United States2266 Posts
All you need is mass roach. If you want to be cute, add some infestors, or add some banelings, or add burrow, but really all you need is mass roach. | ||
Carras
Argentina860 Posts
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lim1017
Canada1278 Posts
The first poster had it right when he said your army was alot weaker (value wise) and you didnt micro properly. There might be some fancy tricks or secret build that will stomp that composition, but the standard roach ling can do it as well. You just need to step up your game, and macro better. It will help you get better faster i the long run. In this case its better if you can win by having 10 more roaches then last game, then if you can win by sneaking in some baneling mines. | ||
HungShark
United States134 Posts
When you first engaged, you had a decent amount of roaches and lings. If you knew that he was going for zealot/archon, why would you get lings after the initial few that are needed for map control and retaking your natural? That was a waste of larva. Those could have been more roaches, which you so desperately needed. While your injects seemed fine, you just couldn't remax fast enough. A macro hatch or two would have definitely change the outcome. By the time he reached your base, you were floating close to 1000 minerals and 1000 gas. Obviously you were spending as much as you could, but you simply did not have the larva to allow you to spend your money when you needed it. His upgrades did not really matter. You simply couldn't produce units quick enough. One other minor thing that could have helped was burrow (and perhaps burrow movement). He had no detection, and the threat of burrow could have either stalled 'til you could get reinforcements, or make him retreat until he got an observer, which would have given you enough time to get infestors ready. Anything else you could have done would have been iffy. Banelings might have helped, but if there are enough sentries, FFs completely nullify them. | ||
BinxyBrown
United States230 Posts
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Chernobyl
Brazil143 Posts
Replay PvZ diamond vs master: http://drop.sc/43004 Imo the counter for this is this BO: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=274068 Muta + Roaches is a scary counter to this. *edit!: 2 base Hidra demolish this!!! Just 2 bases and one macro hatch!!! | ||
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