[IPL 2] Main Event Day 2 - WR1 - Page 31
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pedigree
United States197 Posts
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biamila
Canada335 Posts
On July 16 2011 12:24 _Darwin_ wrote: I think I'm retarded. Anyways. GG Fenix TvT is udder chaos. Leave the cows out of this. | ||
_Darwin_
United States2374 Posts
I wrote utter and changed it :D Lol | ||
Akash1223
United States91 Posts
On July 16 2011 12:22 wats0n wrote: I don't agree with that. I think they're both the same. The only noteworthy Euro player is Naniwa while NA has Huk. None of the other players on both sides are "great players." It just seems Europeans are quicker to overrate their players. Even Stefano gets called a "great player." You don't see half the hype around somebody like Sheth who has GSL wins that Euros put out for Stefano. Just my opinion. Much ado about nothing really. Morrow, Thorzain, Hasuobs, Ret, White-Ra, and Naniwa are all very good players. The only NA players I'd put on that level are Huk, Idra, and Select. EU has a deeper talent pool even at the next tier of players. How many NA players are as good as Mana, Socke, Sjow, Darkforce, etc? There are certainly some good NA players, but imo EU has more. Edit: On a completely different note, anyone know why IPL games aren't on liquibet////if they will be in the future? | ||
wats0n
United States509 Posts
On July 16 2011 12:36 Akash1223 wrote: Morrow, Thorzain, Hasuobs, Ret, White-Ra, and Naniwa are all very good players. The only NA players I'd put on that level are Huk, Idra, and Select. EU has a deeper talent pool even at the next tier of players. How many NA players are as good as Mana, Socke, Sjow, Darkforce, etc? There are certainly some good NA players, but imo EU has more. Edit: On a completely different note, anyone know why IPL games aren't on liquibet////if they will be in the future? I already mentioned Naniwa. None of the others you mentioned are "great players." Thorzain has not done enough yet but he is debatable (but no more so than Idra for NA). For all your Mana, Socke, Sjow, and Darkforce references you can throw out Major, Vibe, Fenix, Killer, Sheth, and Select for NA. It's just my opinion that people who try and decide superiority between NA or Europe are generally biased toward one side (due to their favorites or country affiliation). None of those players are truly great. None of them are on the level of Koreans. It's much ado about nothing arguing this topic. Maybe when some of these players start putting up actual results (like Nani and Huk). | ||
MrKn4rz
Germany2153 Posts
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vectorix108
United States4633 Posts
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wats0n
United States509 Posts
On July 16 2011 12:48 MrKn4rz wrote: So who won TSL by beating Naniwa? Who was in the Top4? Some guy who couldn't get out of his group at Dreamhack. I just think it's funny that people are arguing greatness for a group of guys who are like 3-100 (whatever stats Slasher always posts) against Koreans (like Moon and July). And I don't even consider those Koreans crushing them to be great Koreans. Moon and July aren't great, so it's a little unfaithful to call somebody with one major online win a great player. There's Huk and Nani and all the rest have not distinguished themselves. Just my opinion. | ||
Blasphemi
United Kingdom980 Posts
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Headnoob
Australia2108 Posts
Europe has got this IPL in the bag i'm calling it now, Socke deserves a win after placing so well in EVERYTHING lately. | ||
mdma-_-
Nauru1213 Posts
On July 16 2011 12:44 wats0n wrote: I already mentioned Naniwa. None of the others you mentioned are "great players." Thorzain has not done enough yet but he is debatable (but no more so than Idra for NA). For all your Mana, Socke, Sjow, and Darkforce references you can throw out Major, Vibe, Fenix, Killer, Sheth, and Select for NA. It's just my opinion that people who try and decide superiority between NA or Europe are generally biased toward one side (due to their favorites or country affiliation). None of those players are truly great. None of them are on the level of Koreans. It's much ado about nothing arguing this topic. Maybe when some of these players start putting up actual results (like Nani and Huk). results show that eu is ahead. I dont think to many ppl argue that point. (look at TSL or NASL for example) | ||
AxionSteel
United States7754 Posts
On July 16 2011 12:54 wats0n wrote: Some guy who couldn't get out of his group at Dreamhack. I just think it's funny that people are arguing greatness for a group of guys who are like 3-100 (whatever stats Slasher always posts) against Koreans (like Moon and July). And I don't even consider those Koreans crushing them to be great Koreans. Moon and July aren't great, so it's a little unfaithful to call somebody with one major online win a great player. There's Huk and Nani and all the rest have not distinguished themselves. Just my opinion. You're wrong unfortunately. Many, many NA pros have admitted the EU server is far stronger than that of NA. It just has far more strong players, far more depth. I've heard it straight from people like Select, Huk, KawaiiRice, Kiwikaki, Drewbie etc. Thorzain may have not got out of his dreamhack group, but he did smash the only American in the group , Just like he 2-0'd Idra, 2-0'd Tyler, 2-0'd Machine and 4-1'd SeleCT at the last MLG. TSL top 4 were all European, NASL had 6 EU to 1 NA or something in the finals and 15 to 9 for NASL season 2. So many factors point to EU being the stronger server. | ||
wats0n
United States509 Posts
On July 16 2011 16:05 AxionSteel wrote: You're wrong unfortunately. Many, many NA pros have admitted the EU server is far stronger than that of NA. It just has far more strong players, far more depth. I've heard it straight from people like Select, Huk, KawaiiRice, Kiwikaki, Drewbie etc. Thorzain may have not got out of his dreamhack group, but he did smash the only American in the group , Just like he 2-0'd Idra, 2-0'd Tyler, 2-0'd Machine and 4-1'd SeleCT at the last MLG. TSL top 4 were all European, NASL had 6 EU to 1 NA or something in the finals and 15 to 9 for NASL season 2. So many factors point to EU being the stronger server. I never said the server isn't better. In fact I believe that EU server is better. For both cultural reasons and size reasons. But the argument has nothing to do with servers but one of better top players. Better server relies on many factors. Thorzain did not even win that group at MLG, Idra won it so I don't see your point there. Morrow also lost to Fenix and Vibe in the open bracket. The point is there's very little separating players like Morrow, Sjow, and Thorzain from guys like Idra, Select, and Kiwikaki. The EU players are not better. None of these players have distinguished themselves as I've already stated. Only Huk and Nani have truly surpassed their peers. It's the Koreans and everyone else. I don't even care to argue about this anymore because as I've already stated the people who try to argue EU or NA are usually biased for one side due to nationality/favorite players. | ||
AxionSteel
United States7754 Posts
I have no bias towards either server, I'm located closer to Korea than anywhere else I was actually happy that NA players won 3-0 yesterday in the IPL to shut up people like Diabolus who constantly crow about how ownage EU is. But it's still stronger than NA, no matter what you try and say. | ||
wats0n
United States509 Posts
On July 16 2011 16:32 AxionSteel wrote: No, there isn't a lot seperating the top of EU with the top of NA (although Thorzain is far better than SeleCT), the point is there are many, many, many more top EU players, even if they're far weaker than the Koreans, it makes Europe stronger than North America overall. I have no bias towards either server, I'm located closer to Korea than anywhere else I was actually happy that NA players won 3-0 yesterday in the IPL to shut up people like Diabolus who constantly crow about how ownage EU is. But it's still stronger than NA, no matter what you try and say. There are not "many, many, many" more top EU players. For every "top" EU player I can name an equivalent "top" NA player. And saying Thorzain is far better than Select is pretty convenient but that brings up a good point that I'd like to make. Select was better than him for the entire beta and up until TSL 3 now Thorzain is better but you don't know where Select will be in the next few months. Thorzain didn't look so hot at Dreamhack or Homestory. Just trying to point out that making claims about who is better is very fleeting. Select was on top earlier now Thorzain is on top. Don't be so comfortable in your claims about who is better because it could change in six months. Especially with guys who aren't even playing top Koreans. Personally, I'd rather not argue who is better because neither has done anything yet against the top players. | ||
s4life
Peru1519 Posts
On July 16 2011 12:44 wats0n wrote: I already mentioned Naniwa. None of the others you mentioned are "great players." Thorzain has not done enough yet but he is debatable (but no more so than Idra for NA). For all your Mana, Socke, Sjow, and Darkforce references you can throw out Major, Vibe, Fenix, Killer, Sheth, and Select for NA. It's just my opinion that people who try and decide superiority between NA or Europe are generally biased toward one side (due to their favorites or country affiliation). None of those players are truly great. None of them are on the level of Koreans. It's much ado about nothing arguing this topic. Maybe when some of these players start putting up actual results (like Nani and Huk). Agree with this... except for naniwa and huk, the top koreans are 10 times better than any other euro or NA player mentioned there. Major, Vibe, Fenix, Sheth, Killer, Kiwikaki and Select can take a BoX of any euro player -- except for naniwa -- any day, any time. | ||
WindCalibur
Canada938 Posts
On July 16 2011 16:42 wats0n wrote: There are not "many, many, many" more top EU players. For every "top" EU player I can name an equivalent "top" NA player. And saying Thorzain is far better than Select is pretty convenient but that brings up a good point that I'd like to make. Select was better than him for the entire beta and up until TSL 3 now Thorzain is better but you don't know where Select will be in the next few months. Thorzain didn't look so hot at Dreamhack or Homestory. Just trying to point out that making claims about who is better is very fleeting. Select was on top earlier now Thorzain is on top. Don't be so comfortable in your claims about who is better because it could change in six months. Especially with guys who aren't even playing top Koreans. Personally, I'd rather not argue who is better because neither has done anything yet against the top players. Thorzain is going to korea soon and from the rate he is improving, I do not see Select catching up. The problem with the NA vs EU thingy is that there are powerhouses for both servers and getting an "average" skill for a server might bring the argument where the powerhouses from the opposing server can crush most of the players anyway. | ||
FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
On July 16 2011 16:27 wats0n wrote: The point is there's very little separating players like Morrow, Sjow, and Thorzain from guys like Idra, Select, and Kiwikaki. The EU players are not better. None of these players have distinguished themselves as I've already stated. Only Huk and Nani have truly surpassed their peers. I suppose I could understand Huk with recent results, but how does Naniwa belong in a secluded tier from the rest exactly? Top 5 for sure, but honestly he didn't exactly do spectacular at Dreamhack or MLG (where he had an easy pool) either. Normally I'd probably give the top spot to Idra due to his consistency, but he's been in somewhat of a nose dive recently. However, he could easily bounce back into shape. As for Thorzain, yea he still has a bit to prove but he's at least proven his TSL run was no fluke in my eyes. Ripping through the open bracket at MLG,meeting his end at MC 4-2 and claiming the #9 spot is nothing to scoff at. His Dreamhack run was decent as well considering July and Hasu barely beat him. I would not be surprised at all if he overtook huk and nani in the near future. | ||
AxionSteel
United States7754 Posts
On July 16 2011 16:42 wats0n wrote: There are not "many, many, many" more top EU players. For every "top" EU player I can name an equivalent "top" NA player. s. Ok. Naniwa, Thorzain, Socke, Strelok, BratOK, Nerchio, HasuObs, White-Ra, Happy, DarkForce, MaNa, DIMAGA, ToD, SaSe, DieStar, Tarson, ClouD, Kas, DeMusliM, Stephano, MorroW, BeastyQt, NightEnD, SjoW, Ret, GoOdy, LaLush, HayprO, Jinro Name an NA player to match all of those players for skill. | ||
5ukkub
Poland507 Posts
On July 16 2011 17:45 AxionSteel wrote: Ok. Naniwa, Thorzain, Socke, Strelok, BratOK, Nerchio, HasuObs, White-Ra, Happy, DarkForce, MaNa, DIMAGA, ToD, SaSe, DieStar, Tarson, ClouD, Kas, DeMusliM, Stephano, MorroW, BeastyQt, NightEnD, SjoW, Ret, GoOdy, LaLush, HayprO, Jinro Name an NA player to match all of those players for skill. You have missed some plyers: biGs, Satiini, Lucifron, Tefel, LoWeLy, Elfi, Naugrim, SarenS, XlorD, Naama, Bly, Adelscott | ||
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