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On May 18 2009 15:41 Jimtudor wrote:
Okay, this is preliminary clue searching. The first thing I did was read into Erlend Loe. So he is an author from Norway that writes novels and childrens book that have a style that is characterized as naive.
There are three players from Norway in this game. Softer, Teks, and knutti.
IF there is a mafia among the three, I feel it is teks>knutti>softer. Teks as he got a cartoon picture that would fit in a children's book, and then knutti who pyrr has absolutely nothing else to go on other than being from norway and being knutti?
Too early to tell, but that's my 5 cent for now.
What is also interesting to note is that "L" is one of Loe's most successfull books, so my guess is that L is the connection to Erlend Loe, perhaps resulting in a fake clue. Actually, I'm a big Loe-fan, and was very surprised to see him being mentioned. I've read almost all of his books (apart from the children books), and even wrote a paper on him in school. There is no way for Pyrr to know this about me though, so I wouldn't jump to conclusions just yet. Also, the pictures in his children books are in this style: http://mediaserver-2.vuodatus.net/g/12839/643950.jpg - not really fitting to any of our profiles.
I'm not going to tell anyone to disregard this clue, it MAY definately point to a person from Norway, but I'm rather leaning towards L being the connector here (even though he's not playing in this one).
Could someone more experienced than me tell me if there's possible that Pyrr deliberately placed clues here that does not lead to anyone of interest? If it's not possible, I'll shut my cakehole and go with you on this one, Jimtudor :p
About the election, I'm glad to see we already have a couple of candidates. It'll probably be hard for people to trust anyone in this game as it's mostly concisting of new players, so I think it's going to take quite the campaign to gain influence in this game (although bandwagoning could also come very quickly I guess).
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On May 18 2009 17:25 iLoveKTF wrote:
"In the parking lot, LTT, the love child of the late L and Samsung Khan's captain, read an Erlend Loe novel in his Audi sports car. "
lol L by Erlend Loe (as stated above) and Audi TT = LTT. nice 1 pyyr.
And KHAN's captain is also TT. Quite a funny sentence :p
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On May 18 2009 22:36 EsbenPM wrote:
I think we should way a bit with discussing who to lynch until we have an idea of who is going into office. Because right now the most important thing is getting good and active (town) people into these positions, so they help us instead of work aganist us like Quatol did in the last game.
Mafia will most likely try to get someone into office, so i think for now we should be talking about the candidates and not the lynch. Plus we should have a better idea of who to lynch once more people have gotten involved in the discussion, and then we can decide how to do it.
I agree. I'd also think that the one(s) mafia nominates for office would be announced after they have had the chance to organize, but nothing is certain, except that they probably will, as you say, try to gain a spot in the office. I saw in the other mafia game going on that they were talking about rolechecking the losers of the election, as it would be a big chance that atleast one of them would be mafia.
I also agree with you that the important thing right now is to get the good cluecheckers and behavior analysists into a protected position in office, as we well need their skill later on. The problem is, though, that there are so many new people participating that it'll be hard to know who's good, but I guess this will be easier to tell the closer we get to the voting deadline.
About the first lynch it's most likely going to be a gamble anyway. It's impossible to be sure of anything based on the first clues as there could probably be drawn a line between anyone participating with something in day 1 story. The clues will prove useful later on for cross-checking and after our DT's have done some work, but for now.. it's hard to tell what the actual clues are. So we can either go for the one connected to the most valid clue (I guess we can talk more about the clues a bit later, when the voting gets going), or go for an inactive player, either way it's a gamble. Relying on a mafia to reveal himself during the election process and acting suspiciously.. Well I just don't see that happening, even in this noob friendly game, unless we have some outstanding analysts at work.
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On May 18 2009 23:13 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
Erlend Loe & L
Teks you raise some suspicions here because you are a Loe fan, but there is truth in that afawk, Pyrry wouldn't know that. I think jimtudor is going a bit too far on the picture, but it's something... I dunno though.
I don't know how I should adress this without seeming desperate, but there is no way that Pyrr would know this about me at this point, but now that I've mentioned it it could of course show up in a later clue seeing how he can use post content in clues. Anyway, I still believe that the Erlend Loe thing was just a cute way to play with LTT's nick, first the user L in the other mafia game combined with the KHAN captain TT, then Loe's book L and Audi TT. I guess that's what he found when he googled L.. 
I'm also going to go ahead and talk about a clue that has been bogging me, although it's probably nothing:
Day 1 Story
LTT's head slumped, sounding a horn that would not be heard in time.
I find this wording to be a bit weird, and we are on a starcraft forum after all. So that got me thinking about players who have slumping teams/players related to them, might be a clue. This would be the following:
- iLoveKTF - KTF in nick and picture in profile
- clazziquai - Quote: #1 Sea.Really Fan
- vx70GTOJudgexv - Quote: Proudly Introduced as Entusman #25 - GO BERSERKER!!!!
- Ra.Xor.2 - Quote: #1 Flash Fan
- phelix - Quote: #1 Canata Fan
Out of these I guess Flash might be the top contender. Not saying this necessarily is a clue, just throwing it out there.
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I'm going to go ahead and combine EsbenPM's clue find with my own, as I just realized that we may be on something here:
On May 18 2009 17:44 EsbenPM wrote:
LTT's head slumped, sounding a horn that would not be heard in time
-iLoveKTF has a picture of what appears to be soundwaves in his profile which could lead to this if its a clue.
On May 18 2009 23:33 teks wrote:Show nested quote +Day 1 Story
LTT's head slumped, sounding a horn that would not be heard in time.
I find this wording to be a bit weird, and we are on a starcraft forum after all. So that got me thinking about players who have slumping teams/players related to them, might be a clue. This would be the following: - iLoveKTF - KTF in nick and picture in profile
I don't want to be the one pointing fingers and screaming "lynch!" at this point, but I do want to nominate this for a clue check when time comes to it. The fact that these two clues were found in the same sentence, pointing to the same person, may be something we should think about, and atleast compare to the clues from day 2 when they come. Also keep in mind that this is a person running for office.
About the election, I too would like more people to run for office, to minimize the chances of electing a red.
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On May 19 2009 00:26 SugiuraMidori wrote:
Glass exploding inward seems to be something improbable short of magick or sound waves at the right frequency.. perhaps someone's profile would reflect this?
Nice catch. I guess you can add that to my previous post about iLoveKTF (who has a picture of sound waves in his profile).
I too would rather see an inactive person lynched than jumping to a conclusion based on day 1 clues, including my own theories. This does not, however, mean that we should stop analyzing them, as they will be nice to have when we need to cross check with the clues from day 2+.
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On May 19 2009 00:47 chaoser wrote:
Like i said before, the fact that so MANY clues are being pointed at someone seems kinda weird (horn, glass breaking, slump all "point" to iLoveKTF) Perhaps only one of those clues point to him. The hard thing about this game is that most people are new so there's hardly any behavior analysis to go off of =[
Yeah, it's not very likely that they are all valid clues pointing to the same person, it would make things too easy for a day 1 clue imo. But for each possible clue the chance that one of them is real increases, and this is something we should keep in mind when voting, seeing how he IS running for office (although he mentioned that he didn't check his role before nominating himself).
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I had a theory that the mafia would communicate and organize beforing deciding who they would nominate for office, and thus if he is mafia, I would think that he wouldn't be the first one to be nominated. This theory is however shattered to pieces if it is like he says, that he didn't check his role before he nominated himself. This also means that the mafia no longer needed to nominate a person for office, perhaps meaning that the two other candidates are green or blue. This is QUITE a longshot though.
God, this is quite the puzzle to put together.. I'm probably way off right now :p
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On May 19 2009 08:49 Shikyo wrote:
Well, JeeJee, I think there's a difference between joining a bandwagon and actually starting a whole new one. It's easy to join an existing one, and l10f indeed seems like a standard bandwagoner to me, although he really should try to think about it himself. Teks voting for me first seems reasonable to me, trying to think objectively. We had a kind of a conversation a few pages back, for example. Whenever a player is voted for the first time, it makes me suspicious. More suspicious than normally in this case, because BWdero has a history of bandwagoning.
l10f, you might want to read my post for office a couple of pages back, and then read other people's posts, and then decide who you really want for sherif. You really shouldn't vote just because a person has the most votes. But of course it's not like I mind you voting for me, just make sure to decide to do so yourself.
Yeah bandwagoning is not a good thing. I voted first so I get to slip by without accusations of bandwagoning I guess \o/.
I voted for you Shikyo mostly based on posting history, as you probably figured out. In my opinion, the announcement post of the candidates are not good judging material, as anyone can make empty promises and draw lovely pictures of how their town is going to be like. The person I want to see in office needs to have a clue solving sense and a game vision that corresponds with mine, which you showed after some posts earlier in the thread. There were, at that moment, no other good candidates either. I still think that you are the best choice based on your posts, but every person should be coming to conclusions on their own, not because someone else tells them it's the right thing to do.
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On May 19 2009 09:09 Shikyo wrote:
I would also like to propose that DTs rolecheck the losing parties of the elections asap. As was said in the other mafia game, it's likely at least one mafia is attempting to get elected, and so the losing candidates would be ideal targets for the DTs, assuming that no other, higher priority targets come up.
Yeah I also proposed this idea earlier in this thread. I'm sure you are also aware that this does raise questions about your status as well, seeing how you're making this proposition when you can be relatively sure to get into office. If you do happen to be the only red participating in the election, not only will you gain an office position, but also make the DT's waste role checks.
Even if there is a chance this could happen, I still support this idea. In the case that the DT's do not find any mafia amongst the remaining candidates, we gain two things:
1) The possibility of there being mafia in office
2) Forming a Town Hall consisting of DT's and the losing candidates. This would prove useful as the candidates are people who say they are experienced and active.
If the DT's DO find a mafia, all the better :p
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On May 19 2009 19:27 Shikyo wrote:
Now what I'm curious about is if you have ever thought of this scenario: You're a mafia who thinks I am a good mayor candidate, so you try to stop people from voting me and cast suspicion on me, in addition with advocating incorrect play like avoiding lynching mafia. Even though I don't exactly believe this right now, it all seems to make sense to me if that indeed is the case. As you can see, It's not that difficult to make anyone seem suspicious, if you want them to. If you think of this as being defensive, maybe that's the kind of a person I am, then.
I don't think you're being defensive, I got the same feeling when I read his post as well. I think it's likely that he is mafia, as it would be a very weird way to play for a townie.
Shikyo wrote:
Hmmm... if a vigi announces their hit in the thread and then hits a green or blue, nothing happens, no one sends them any roles, and they'll essentially be a normal townie, and thus not important for mafia to kill. If vigi hits a red, then he'd become the confirmed townie. There's just the problem of mafia killing him the same night, right after he kills the red... So maybe this plan needs some work. Maybe if he just announced he was going to hit someone that night, and if a red is hit, we should still know who that was. That way mafia doesn't know if he's worth lynching, and his vigi hit would still get through, assuming he sent it before announcing, and assuming that the earlier an action is sent, the more priority it gets. Also, vigis should be hitting only prime suspects, so I doubt that a medic would protect anyone they were supposed to hit. I'm still kind of unsure about this, though.
I don't think this is the best way to do it. In my opinion it would be better to do it like Fishball did in Mafia V, where the Vigi announces his hit to 3-4 people via PM, the people he sees as most likely being blue/green. There is a SMALL chance that he will PM a mafia, but atleast the chances are smaller than if he were to post it openly in the thread, where the mafia WILL know who he is hitting, and he will be taken down the same night. After the hit is done, the Vigi can go public and call for support from the ones he PM-ed before the hit was done. This should be enough to warrant public trust, as long as the target that he hit was a mafia (since the mafia can't hit each other).
There is one problem with this plan too, though, which is the fact that the mafia can forge this event by taking out a townie and roleclaiming Vigi, by using the support of other mafia's to confirm their story. I don't think this is very likely though, as all it takes is one rolecheck from a DT on the "vigi" to bust their cover, then all the supporters of the fake vigi would be revealed as well.
There is also the possibility that a mafia roleclaims as vigi in PM to townies, hits a green/blue, and tries to gain their support the following day, to act as a confirmed townie.
So the way I see it there are only two ways to do this:
1) The vigi claims his target in PM the night before, and hits a red, this is not something mafia can do, so he can be trusted. As long as the people noticed are not mafia, he should be safe (unless the mafia randomly selects the vigi as their target that night), and can be placed in jail the night after.
2) The vigi claims his target in PM, but hits a green/blue. This scenario will be harder, since we will need a rolecheck on the vigi to confirm his status. How will the DT alert people? He can always convey his message via someone he has rolechecked before, but how can we trust them when they say the message comes from a DT? I'm lost.
The vigi better hit a red. That would make things that much easier. I think the best we can do is to get 1 or 2 prime suspects before night 2, urge the vigi's to take him/them out, and pray that they are mafia. If we wait any longer there's an increasing chance we won't have any vigi's left to use, so we better work fast in the clue/behavior section.
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On May 20 2009 01:09 zeks wrote:
For those who haven't read my platform, I would urge you to do so - it is at the top of this page. I want to pose a question to town: once the mayor does get elected today, who would you like to see get lynched? I also want to reiterate that no one should be PMing their roles to the new elected Sheriff and Mayor until further confirmation.
I'll support lynching an inactive player. As has been said many times already, townies really should atleast write something in this thread. We need all the input we can get, and we need to force the mafia to speak up as well. So I guess for now we're going off this list:
zeks wrote:
Never posted:
5. omG.[RaYnE]
6. clazziquai
13. adriix33
18. Ra.Xor.2
31. epicdoom
It is worth to mention that omG.[RaYnE] atleast has voted, but I'm not really sure a possible bandwagon vote is any better than inactivity.
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Could it be possible that Pyrr are making the clues easier than usual because this is a newbie game? If not, I'd say that my try on connecting slumping to iLoveKTF is probably too weak. The sound waves could fit though. Erlend Loe may point to a Norwegian player, but it's hard to tell without a clue check. I'm thinking it's probably nothing.
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On May 20 2009 05:28 crate wrote:Show nested quote +Shikyo wrote:
About multiple people claiming to have saved A, we don't necessarily have to kill all those people. Yes, we do. Read my posts again. Same reason that if a Vigi claims a hit we have to lynch the Vigi afterward if we want to believe him.
Really? If the Vigi hits a red we know it's a vigi hit, and if he told 3-4 people via PM before he did the hit they can confirm his story. We would have a confirmed townie then. Unless you believe that the mafia would risk 3-4 of their members to backup one person in order to get to the confirmed townie position, only to be revealed by a DT or a clue? Problem is, of course, if he doesn't hit a red. He can do the same thing, revealing himself and calling for the support of the receivers of his PM, but he would be no more useful than any other townie.
I'd also like the candidates to start figuring out who they are going to lynch. Props to zeks on this part, I agree on your choice, but it doesn't seem that you are the one getting to execute it. I do hope that the other candidates reads it and considers it as well though.
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On May 20 2009 05:56 crate wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2009 05:46 teks wrote:crate wrote:
snip stuff about Vigi lynching Really? If the Vigi hits a red we know it's a vigi hit, and if he told 3-4 people via PM before he did the hit they can confirm his story. We would have a confirmed townie then. I wasn't talking about the scenario you are talking about here at all.
Oh, my bad then. I'll go back and view your posts one more time.
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On May 20 2009 06:03 Ra.Xor.2 wrote:
There are 7 mafia in this game. So far JeeJee is in second place with only 6 votes and Jimtudor is in third with 5 votes. I'm almost 100% sure one of the two is a mafia member and that the people voting for him are mafia. Of the two I believe JimTudor is more suspicious because most of his voters have been mostly inactive. I strongly encourage abstaintees to vote or mafia may elect a mayor with their 7 man voting power.
I'm thinking the same thing. I first thought the mafia candidate was JeeJee, seeing how he was voted on by Jayme and iLoveKTF who already had connections to the possible clues, and BWdero, who was suspected by Shikyo. The latest posts from JeeJee have turned me though, I too think it's probably JimTudor who's the red one here, I might change my vote to JeeJee seeing how Shikyo basically already has secured his spot, and I think it's good that JeeJee agrees with zeks on who to lynch first. I'll wait a bit longer though.
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On May 20 2009 06:38 Ra.Xor.2 wrote:
Something interesting to note, this may or may not be a clue. Erlend Loe is a nowegian writer. Three players in this game are from Norway: Knutti, Teks, and Softer
This has also been mentioned before. It MAY be something. We won't know until DT's are allowed to act. I'm thinking it's just a wordplay on Erlend Loe's book L + Audi TT -> forming the nick LTT. But you're right, we have to keep it in mind when more clues arrive.
On May 20 2009 06:11 l10f wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2009 06:08 teks wrote:
I'm thinking the same thing. I first thought the mafia candidate was JeeJee, seeing how he was voted on by Jayme and iLoveKTF who already had connections to the possible clues, and BWdero, who was suspected by Shikyo. The latest posts from JeeJee have turned me though, I too think it's probably JimTudor who's the red one here, I might change my vote to JeeJee seeing how Shikyo basically already has secured his spot, and I think it's good that JeeJee agrees with zeks on who to lynch first. I'll wait a bit longer though. How do you think we should carry out the check on Jimtudor after JeeJee gets the mayor spot? He should definitely be checked out, but I don't know with what method. Lynch him? Role check him?
We can't really carry out a check at all, not yet atleast. We just have to analyze clues and behavior and try to connect them with the voters of Jimtudor and Jimtudor himself. It's not certain that they are red, but it's a start to go from at least. As long as they don't get into office they haven't really gained anything, except a nice steamy pile of attention. That would be a good start for the town. Lynching one of the inactive/silent voters of Jimtudor on day2 is also a possibility.
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On May 20 2009 07:10 The_Master wrote: My vote rested with Jimtudor since at the time I thought he was the better candidate. I changed my vote to JeeJee mostly to thank him for the wonderful post he made about in depth on the different character roles as that helps me play the game better (and it shows he knows the game at least half decently well  ).
Am I missing something here? Aren't you still voting on Jimtudor?
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On May 20 2009 07:27 l10f wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2009 07:14 teks wrote:On May 20 2009 07:10 The_Master wrote: My vote rested with Jimtudor since at the time I thought he was the better candidate. I changed my vote to JeeJee mostly to thank him for the wonderful post he made about in depth on the different character roles as that helps me play the game better (and it shows he knows the game at least half decently well ). Am I missing something here? Aren't you still voting on Jimtudor? And maybe you're changing vote to JeeJee because the town caught attention of Jimtudor and his voters? I don't think it's a good idea for anyone to change votes unless they're going from abstain -> someone.
It's not me you're talking to now, right? But since you quoted me I'll go ahead and adress it anyway. I would only change my vote because my voting target (Shikyo) is already well ahead, and it would be better used on securing the mayor spot if need be. At the moment it doesn't look like it will come to that though, so I'm not changing my vote.
Also, anyone switching vote from Jimtudor to anyone else to avoid suspicion, I'm afraid it's too late for that. We already have your name on the Jimtudor list. Voting for someone else now isn't going to change anything.
It's not like all the voters on the mafia candidate are mafia, either. Obviously there are going to be townies who are tricked/convinced into voting for the mafia candidate, so we need to make links between clues/behavior and suspects anyway. This means that townies should not have any reason to worry (atleast not yet, there MAY come a misinterpretation of the clues, obviously, it happens).
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Edit after post (whatever the abbreviation is, I can't remember it): I see you made a new post saying you're not talking to me, I10f, I didn't really think you were, but I went ahead and answered it anyway :p
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EPT
