If you run pre-role distribution, your intentions for doing so aren't linked with your role. If you run post role distribution, your intentions ARE linked with your role.

If you want to run for mayor as a detective, but not as a veteran, for instance, you can't really make that play if people are already throwing out platforms pre-role. The fact that people essentially roulette mafia or dt into the mayor's office in this manner substantially fucks with the game because of how much inherent trust people give the mayor, deserved or not.

Canada4732 Posts

May 15 2009 03:18 GMT

#36

qatol, thats exactly how you want to get elected though, with a nice branding of i dont care what my role is, over, IM BLUE< IM RED WOOO VOTE ME

That's kinda the point. Removes the yomi element from the mayoral voting which makes it somewhat silly.

Canada4732 Posts

May 16 2009 06:00 GMT

#91

Okay. So L is going to do some math because that's what L does.

So we have 30 total people, 1 traitor, 6 mafia total, 23 town. Mafia essentially have 7 total voting power maximum, so town auto-loses when they're under 6 people. In the worst possible scenario, mafia kill 3 per day + 1 mislynch (lets ignore double lynches b/c i'm lazy).

Essentially townie numbers go

23-Current
19-Tomorrow
15-Next day
11-Day 4
7-Day 5

Add in a missed vig hit or missed double lynches and we can be out of the game by day 5. We're essentially obligated to hit correctly on day 2 or 3 or we're in the shitter. We can't fuck around and pretend that day 2-3 are clue gathering days and that we can float until day 4 and suddenly start knocking people out.

What does this mean? ACTIVITY. Don't have anything to say? Think of something. If 5 pages go by and you haven't said anything you are fucking the down in the butt.

I have a feeling people have been a postin' so ima post this, read and then post s'more.

Canada4732 Posts

May 16 2009 06:01 GMT

#92

I was wrong. No one posted.

Canada4732 Posts

May 16 2009 07:16 GMT

#98

Yeah, the pardoner position really doesn't help us. Ever. We have a very limited amount of time to hit the proper targets and unless we're 100% certain our target is green, pardoning is generally a VERY BAD CHOICE. If pardoner drops into mafia hands, it sets us back at least a single day, possibly 2.

Canada4732 Posts

May 16 2009 07:21 GMT

#100

The only time I can see pardoner being used to the advantage of the town is if we get a blue in there and he has a role that can either be checked via usage of its powers, or retains the same level of power regardless of use. Vig in pardoner would do fuck all for us. Paramedic or detective are the only two roles I can see benefitting the town if they're placed there.

For that matter, I can only see Medic or DT being useful in the mayor slot too.

Canada4732 Posts

May 16 2009 07:22 GMT

#102

Edit with posting.

That said, the primary asset of the pardoner position for the town is having it to prevent mafia from using it. The fact that BC claims he wants to use it seems like poor play on his part.

Canada4732 Posts

May 16 2009 07:51 GMT

#105

Assuming a townie gets the position.

If one of the mafia's best players takes the spot we'd be in even more shit because they would likely have enough sway to get both day 1 and 2 votes.

Judging by posting activity here compared to people who are signed up outside of the thread, its fairly obvious a number of people are active in PMs at the moment. There are also, by the statistics, 2 mafia posting in this current discussion.

Mafia are going to be far more enticed by the option of a second place runner up prize than in non-pardoner games. ESPECIALLY since we have such low numbers and such a limited day count.

Canada4732 Posts

May 16 2009 20:39 GMT

#159

there really is no difference in the two roles this game

Yes there is. Voting in a townie mayor gives us a 25% shot at killing a mafia, and voting in a mafia pardoner sets us back an entire day, which is essentially 3 extra town deaths.

Either way, at this point a few people have played their poker and sent tells as to what their roles are.

Canada4732 Posts

May 16 2009 20:40 GMT

#162

Err, to make the above clear: Pardoner is a more powerful role than the mayor in this game.

Canada4732 Posts

May 16 2009 21:22 GMT

#173

Hm. Mafia pardoner only sets us back if we get the first lynch correctly. What was the game where the first lynch was pardoned? I think i'm gonna go back and check that one.

No, Mafia pardoner will always set us back a day and will likely block our first double lynch or our first successful double lynch.

If mayor is mafia, he will look at a split town consensus and pick a non-mafia target, or he'll have an active posting mafia member start a line of reasoning towards a non-mafia target and have people switch over to that. Either way, since there's nearly ZERO we can do to proof the choice, he can't be held accountable either because a townie mayor would be making a 1 in 4 shot anyways.

If the town/mafia mayor gets/sacrifices a mafia, the proper response would NOT be to assume he's a confirmed town member either way.

Canada4732 Posts

May 16 2009 21:59 GMT

#184

Pressure wont' do fuck all. They're obviously going to die during the next day but unless we've dropped a player by then (and we likely won't have, since this will be the day 3 vote), his team won't even lose KP for his sacrifice. Everyone running for pardoner knows they will be killed almost immediately unless the entire town KNOWS that mafia secured the vote (at which point the town is fucked anyways).

Pardoning is a move akin to mass mafia voting. The move is done with the intention of rapidly precipitating an unrecoverable condition for the other side.

Canada4732 Posts

May 16 2009 22:39 GMT

#190

That's because there IS no way for a townie to use the pardoner's ability effectively. Our main commodity is lynches and he's the black hole that removes them. The only townie benefit to the pardoner spot is that a blue role is protected, and that the spot can't delay us for a day.

Lets be crystal clear: we aren't going into a 20 day game. This game is most likely going to be decided between days 4-6. Being able to set us back an entire day is not trivial.

Canada4732 Posts

May 16 2009 23:03 GMT

#193

We have to give it to someone who is good

See, this is where I disagree. We have to give it to people who are long term use blues. Dts or Paramedics. Examine posting history to see if anyone is hinting they have these roles, because by my count, 2 people are already.

Canada4732 Posts

May 17 2009 00:04 GMT

#203

Also, there is no problem with the Pardoner pardoning a Mafia. If it's an obvious candidate and the Pardoner uses his skill, then the Town has 2 CONFIRMED Mafia.

No, see that's the problem, we don't have 2 confirmed mafia.

Pardoner can pardon anyone and we'll assume he's mafia. If he double pardons, we're down a double lynch and regardless of what we do the following day, we're down a double lynch and we're still going to be shooting at the same targets. Mafia stalling in this method can assure them extra kp during critical nights and can let them cruise to a victory.

How is it 'no problem' that they REMOVE OUR ABILITY TO LYNCH?

Exactly how does pardoner reveal his role to the town? He doesn't do anything as pardoner until the moment he throws down the hammer and goes "lol sry no".

You're seriously underestimating how early the 'end of the game' will come with only 30 players.

Canada4732 Posts

May 17 2009 00:11 GMT

#206

Unless he's actually a DT, because he desperately wants protection so he can reveal information asap.

Canada4732 Posts

May 17 2009 00:14 GMT

#209

Err, and regardless of who is put into the mayoral position, no one should be giving him information. The risks you described are the same with any candidate.

Canada4732 Posts

May 17 2009 00:17 GMT

#210

But that is very difficult to do.

No it isn't. Its incredibly fucking easy. I can already name 3 blue roles from the way people are acting, its pretty transperant.

So the question is if someone get's pardoner should we just make the game plan for them to never use their roles power?

If he's part of the town, he will never pardon. If he is mafia, he will. The only exception will be a mass voteswing from a confirmed mafia which shouldn't happen if people are active.

I mean, are you blind or some shit? I've layed this out repeatedly.

Canada4732 Posts

May 17 2009 00:26 GMT

#213

I don't see how he could assume no one would vote for him. The only person to pull the same stunt was a DT who was being honest and died because the mafia voteswung to push him out of pardoner.