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Active: 8817 users

Bush Torture Memos

Forum Index > General Forum
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Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-17 00:10:22
April 16 2009 23:59 GMT
#1
More news links:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/wtMostRead/idUKN1627971620090416?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aWdlo4rB9Uic&refer=us
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/16/torture.cia.immunity/

Here's an interesting article I just read:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/16/torture-memos-bush-administration


Obama releases Bush torture memos

Insects, sleep deprivation and waterboarding among approved techniques by the Bush administration

+ Show Spoiler [ Actual article] +


Barack Obama today released four top secret memos that allowed the CIA under the Bush administration to torture al-Qaida and other suspects held at Guantánamo and secret detention centres round the world.

But, in an accompanying statement, Obama ruled out prosecutions against those who had been involved. It is a "time for reflection, not retribution," he said.

The memos provide an insight into the techniques used by the CIA and the legal basis on which the Bush administration gave the go-ahead.

In the first of the memos, dated 1 August 2002, the justice department gave the go-ahead to John Rizzo, then acting general counsel to the CIA, for operatives to move to the "increased pressure phase" in interrogating an al-Qaida suspect.

Ten techniques are approved, listed as: attention grasp, walling (in which the suspect could be pushed into a wall), a facial hold, a facial slap, cramped confinement, wall standing, sleep deprivation, insects placed in a confinement box (the suspect had a fear of insects) and the waterboard. In the latter, "the individual is bound securely to an inclined bench, which is approximately four feet by seven feet. The individual's feet are generally elevated. A cloth is placed over the forehead and eyes. Water is then applied to the cloth in a controlled manner........produces the perception of 'suffocation and incipient panic'."

'Walling' involved use of a plastic neck collar to slam suspects into a specially-built wall that the CIA said made the impact sound worse than it actually was. Other methods include food deprivation.

The techniques were applied to at least 14 suspects.

The Bush administration, in particular former vice-president Dick Cheney, claimed that waterboarding did not amount to torture but the Obama adminstration has ruled that it is. Obama ordered the closure of Guantánamo and the CIA secret detention sites abroad.

In spite of that, civil rights organisations have been disappointed by a series of rulings by the Obama administration that have protected a lot of material relating to Guantánamo and the sites abroad. The release of the memos today reversed that trend, though there will be unhappiness over the immunity from prosecution.

Obama, in a statement from the White House, said: "In releasing these memos, it is our intention to assure those who carrying out their duties relying in good faith upon the legal advice from the department of justice that they will not be subject to prosecution."

Anthony Romero, the ACLU executive director, said: "President Obama's assertion that there should not be prosecutions of government officials who may have committed crimes before a thorough investigation has been carried out is simply untenable."

The ACLU described the legal basis for torture as spurious.

Echoing the president, the attorney-general, Eric Holder, reiterated that there would be no prosecution of CIA operatives working within the guidelines set by the Bush administration."It would be unfair to prosecute dedicated men and women working to protect America for conduct that was sanctioned in advance by the justice department," Holder said.

The director of the CIA, Leon Panetta, told CIA employees that "this is not the end of the road on these issues", apparently in expectation of Congressional inquiries and court actions abroad. He promised legal and financial help for any CIA employees who faced such action.

In Spain, the chances of court action against six senior Bush administration members over the torture receded today after a ruling by the attorney-general, Candido Conde-Pumpido.

He said that any such action should be heard in a US court rather than a Spanish one, and that he would not allow Spain's legal system to be used as a plaything for political ends.

"If there is a reason to file a complaint against these people, it should be done before local courts with jurisdiction, in other words in the United States," he told reporters.

Spanish human rights lawyers last month asked Judge Baltasar Garzón, who indicted the former Chilean president Augusto Pinochet in 1998, to consider filing charges against the former US attorney-general, Alberto Gonzales, and five others.



TL:DR version

Obama released four top secret memos that allowed the CIA under the Bush administration to torture al-Qaida and other suspects held at Guantánamo and secret detention centres round the world.

Ten approved techniques:
- attention grasp
- walling (in which the suspect could be pushed into a wall)
- a facial hold
- a facial slap
- cramped confinement
- wall standing
- week-long sleep deprivation source
- insects placed in a confinement box (the suspect had a fear of insects)
- waterboard - "the individual is bound securely to an inclined bench, which is approximately four feet by seven feet. The individual's feet are generally elevated. A cloth is placed over the forehead and eyes. Water is then applied to the cloth in a controlled manner........produces the perception of 'suffocation and incipient panic'."

But, in an accompanying statement, Obama ruled out prosecutions against those who had been involved. It is a "time for reflection, not retribution," he said.

O_O
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
Folca
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
2235 Posts
April 17 2009 00:00 GMT
#2
Wow.
Dea : one time when he was playing vs the comps he asked me "how do I make that flying unit that makes the other stuff invisible" and I reply "ur playing terran zomg"
SwaY-
Profile Joined March 2009
Dominican Republic463 Posts
April 17 2009 00:02 GMT
#3
Yeah the bolded part was a big wtf, why are they releasing these if there is not intention of prosecuting?
Do it beautifully
Osmoses
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Sweden5302 Posts
April 17 2009 00:03 GMT
#4
I don't know what attention grab is, but the rest of them didn't seem that bad to me :3
Excuse me hun, but what is your name? Vivian? I woke up next to you naked and, uh, did we, um?
Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
April 17 2009 00:04 GMT
#5
I just pulled consecutive allnighters, and I never ever want to not sleep ever again

So sleep deprivation is definitely a big gg for me
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
andiCR
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Costa Rica2273 Posts
April 17 2009 00:04 GMT
#6
On April 17 2009 09:00 Folca wrote:
Wow.

+1
Nightmare1795 wrote: I played a guy in bronze who said he was Japanese. That was the only game I ever dropped a nuke, which was purely coincidental.
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-17 00:06:54
April 17 2009 00:05 GMT
#7
This is pretty fucking dirty by Obama. Not shady, but it should be pretty clear to everyone (it was clear during the election too) that he's from the Chicago political machine. I've always thought it was absurd that people questioned his toughness; anyone that gets through big city politics knows how to handle themselves.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
Cloud
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Sexico5880 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-17 00:12:00
April 17 2009 00:05 GMT
#8
The waterboarding stuff was in prison break. Theyd put a plastic film over the nose and mouth and then drop water on it. And the torturee convulsioned, didnt really get what it was about o.O

Oh and i thought a week long of deprivation is enough to leave anyone permanently really fucked in the brain, if not dead. I dont understand the reasoning behind it. Might as well shoot him in the head and hope he only ends up retarded and not dead, then hell really talk lol.
BlueLaguna on West, msg for game.
aRod
Profile Joined July 2007
United States758 Posts
April 17 2009 00:10 GMT
#9
The secrecy is over
Live to win.
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
April 17 2009 00:12 GMT
#10
On April 17 2009 09:10 aRod wrote:
The secrecy is over


no, not so much
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
CrimsonLotus
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Colombia1123 Posts
April 17 2009 00:15 GMT
#11
On April 17 2009 08:59 Cambium wrote:But, in an accompanying statement, Obama ruled out prosecutions against those who had been involved. It is a "time for reflection, not retribution," he said.


This is something i would have expected from the Bush Administration.

I guess "change" cant come without compromises... *sigh*
444 444 444 444
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
April 17 2009 00:17 GMT
#12
On April 17 2009 09:15 CrimsonLotus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2009 08:59 Cambium wrote:But, in an accompanying statement, Obama ruled out prosecutions against those who had been involved. It is a "time for reflection, not retribution," he said.


This is something i would have expected from the Bush Administration.

I guess "change" cant come without compromises... *sigh*


If you didn't expect it from the Obama administration then you haven't been paying attention for the past year and a half.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
HeadBangaa
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States6512 Posts
April 17 2009 00:21 GMT
#13
Obama also voted to renew the Patriot Act.

He is no messiah.
People who fail to distinguish Socratic Method from malicious trolling are sadly stupid and not worth a response.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44289 Posts
April 17 2009 00:22 GMT
#14
On April 17 2009 09:05 Cloud wrote:
The waterboarding stuff was in prison break. Theyd put a plastic film over the nose and mouth and then drop water on it. And the torturee convulsioned, didnt really get what it was about o.O

Oh and i thought a week long of deprivation is enough to leave anyone permanently really fucked in the brain, if not dead. I dont understand the reasoning behind it. Might as well shoot him in the head and hope he only ends up retarded and not dead, then hell really talk lol.

It tricks the brain into believing you're drowning, swamping you with uncontrollable panic. It's basically the same trick as trapping you in a box with insects for the phobia guy, it's just fear of drowning isn't a phobia because it's not irrational.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
SwaY-
Profile Joined March 2009
Dominican Republic463 Posts
April 17 2009 00:27 GMT
#15
On April 17 2009 09:21 HeadBangaa wrote:
Obama also voted to renew the Patriot Act.

He is no messiah.

Source by any chance?
Do it beautifully
aRod
Profile Joined July 2007
United States758 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-17 00:31:35
April 17 2009 00:28 GMT
#16
On April 17 2009 09:12 Mindcrime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2009 09:10 aRod wrote:
The secrecy is over


no, not so much


Let me clarify, the secrecy concerning the previous administration's role in guantanimo relating to torcher is fading.
Live to win.
HeadBangaa
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States6512 Posts
April 17 2009 00:32 GMT
#17
On April 17 2009 09:27 SwaY- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2009 09:21 HeadBangaa wrote:
Obama also voted to renew the Patriot Act.

He is no messiah.

Source by any chance?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=obama renew patriot act

2nd from top
People who fail to distinguish Socratic Method from malicious trolling are sadly stupid and not worth a response.
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-17 00:34:29
April 17 2009 00:32 GMT
#18
On April 17 2009 09:27 SwaY- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2009 09:21 HeadBangaa wrote:
Obama also voted to renew the Patriot Act.

He is no messiah.

Source by any chance?

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00029

It's a better bill than the original version, but it is what it is. He's a center-left politician. Props to Levin though.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
Ry-Masta-T
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States478 Posts
April 17 2009 00:32 GMT
#19
On April 17 2009 09:28 aRod wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2009 09:12 Mindcrime wrote:
On April 17 2009 09:10 aRod wrote:
The secrecy is over


no, not so much


Let me clarify, the secrecy concerning the previous administration's role in guantanimo relating to torcher is fading.

lol
Speak the word...
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
April 17 2009 00:33 GMT
#20
On April 17 2009 09:32 HeadBangaa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2009 09:27 SwaY- wrote:
On April 17 2009 09:21 HeadBangaa wrote:
Obama also voted to renew the Patriot Act.

He is no messiah.

Source by any chance?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=obama renew patriot act

2nd from top

It seems like it took more effort for you to create that link than it did for me to Google and paste it.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
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