• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:37
CEST 20:37
KST 03:37
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20259Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202577RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18
Community News
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced25BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 I offer completely free coaching services What tournaments are world championships?
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign Dewalt's Show Matches in China BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
UK Politics Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 709 users

[Pics] Byzantium 3 and Carthage 2

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51447 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-16 01:59:43
April 16 2009 01:56 GMT
#1
[image loading]

Changes from Byzantium 2.3
- Minerals at natural changed from 6 to 7
- Third gas' at 3, 6, 9 and 12 increased minerals from 6 to 7
- Mineral natural amount changed from 5 to 6
- Natural choke widened
- Changes to various bases mining efficiency
+ Show Spoiler [Korean] +
◆ 2.3버전으로부터 바뀐 점
- 앞마당 미네랄 6덩이에서 7덩이로 증가
- 3, 6, 9, 12시 멀티 미네랄 6덩이에서 7덩이로 증가
- 미네랄멀티 미네랄 5덩이에서 6덩이로 증가
- 앞마당 입구 인근 지형 수정
- 본진, 앞마당 자원배치 일부 수정


(Basically they reverted back to Old Byzantium -_-)

[image loading]

Changes from Carthage
- Mains mineral count changed from 8 to 9
- Natural expansions mineral count changed from 7 to 8
- Gas removed from 2 and 8 Expansions
- 1 and 7's expansions moved closer to the main bases
- 1 and 7's Multi-entrance ramps changed
- Gas removed from the center expansions
- Narrower choke at natural
- Wider choke at main base
- Space added behind both main and natural minerals for turrets
- Several ramps fixed due to visibility issues
- Mains minerals fixed for maximum mining efficiency.
+ Show Spoiler [Korean] +
- 본진 미네랄 8덩이에서 9덩이로 증가
- 앞마당 미네랄 7덩이에서 8덩이로 증가
- 중앙 가스멀티 미네랄 3덩이에서 6덩이로 증가하고 가스 삭제
- 2시, 8시 가스멀티 가스 삭제
- 1시 7시 멀티 위치 앞마당에 가깝게 이동
- 1시 7시 멀티 벽쪽 입구 위치 이동
- 중앙 가스멀티 인근 지역 건물 지어지는 공간 확장
- 본진 입구 1배럭 1서플로 막히도록 수정
- 앞마당 입구 너비 축소
- 앞마당 뒤쪽 터렛 지어지는 공간 확장
- 앞마당 뒤쪽 벽 너머 시야확보 약간 가능하게 수정
- 본진입구 위아래 언덕지형 넓이 축소
- 본진 자원배치 일부 수정


(Why didn't they just do all of this in the first place =/)

Source: FOMOS
Commentator
tyr
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France1686 Posts
April 16 2009 02:12 GMT
#2
On April 16 2009 10:56 GTR wrote:
- Space added behind both main and natural minerals for turrets


Wasn't that part of the balance problem in the original Blue Storm as well ?
"I'm always reminded of how manly Jaedong is every time I see him." -Bisu
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8552 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-16 02:15:46
April 16 2009 02:15 GMT
#3
Dang, ZvP is going to be a whole lot harder this season. I wish they would make it balanced instead of switching between favoring each race, though who knows, it might be balanced this season.
Jaedong
p4NDemik
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States13896 Posts
April 16 2009 02:17 GMT
#4
On April 16 2009 11:12 tyr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2009 10:56 GTR wrote:
- Space added behind both main and natural minerals for turrets

Wasn't that part of the balance problem in the original Blue Storm as well ?

As far as TvZ is concerned, that was THE balance problem in the original Blue Storm.
Moderator
Harem
Profile Joined November 2007
United States11390 Posts
April 16 2009 02:31 GMT
#5
So, we're basically back to this now?

ZvP: 0-7 (0%) [ Games ]

Awesome. -_-
Moderator。◕‿◕。
thunk
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States6233 Posts
April 16 2009 02:31 GMT
#6
I never liked league-only maps. I felt that players just played and practiced on them out of courtesy.
Every time Jung Myung Hoon builds a vulture, two probes die. || My post count was a palindrome and I was never posting again.
Pioneer
Profile Joined December 2008
994 Posts
April 16 2009 02:45 GMT
#7
Cool, good fixes for Carthage. Narrower choke is great, FE will be a bit easier. Also, the switching of the corner expansions is cool :D.
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66161 Posts
April 16 2009 03:22 GMT
#8
Byzantium 3 = Byzantium 1, seriously. Byzantium 2 was quite balanced wasn't it?

And lol @ Carthage changes. Must be after all the T>>>>>>>>>>P and Z>>>>>>>>>>P imbalance rants. "OMG NAT ENTRANCE TOO BIG" "OMG ZERG EZ THIRD GAS" =.="
POGGERS
hasuprotoss
Profile Blog Joined March 2004
United States4612 Posts
April 16 2009 03:56 GMT
#9
On April 16 2009 11:31 Harem wrote:
So, we're basically back to this now?

ZvP: 0-7 (0%) [ Games ]

Awesome. -_-


Do you ever not whine about imbalances?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?viewdays=0&show_part=5 <--- Articles Section on TL
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8552 Posts
April 16 2009 04:00 GMT
#10
On April 16 2009 12:56 hasuprotoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2009 11:31 Harem wrote:
So, we're basically back to this now?

ZvP: 0-7 (0%) [ Games ]

Awesome. -_-


Do you ever not whine about imbalances?

You underestimate how import a mineral patch or two is in a matchup like ZvP. This was the most imbalanced ZvP map for zergs since I started watching the scene (since EVER 07) and you're going to bash someone for complaining about that? What about all the people that complained about ToTM?
Honestly, there's no point in posting just to bash someone whose comments are justified.
Jaedong
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
April 16 2009 04:04 GMT
#11
WTF Byzantium 2 looked pretty balanced according to TLPD... nothing above 60% for any matchup, that makes it way more balanced than most (unless those numbers obscure some other problem). Anyone know why it was changed?

Also, TLPD doesn't show a single game for Byzantium 2.3? What was it used it in?

Definitely looks like Protoss is receiving the brunt of the loving this time around (based on my limited Starcraft knowledge). I say this because Stork said in an interview that more minerals per patch tends to help Protoss even more than smaller natural chokes (and both of these maps are getting both of those treatments).
hasuprotoss
Profile Blog Joined March 2004
United States4612 Posts
April 16 2009 04:06 GMT
#12
On April 16 2009 13:00 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2009 12:56 hasuprotoss wrote:
On April 16 2009 11:31 Harem wrote:
So, we're basically back to this now?

ZvP: 0-7 (0%) [ Games ]

Awesome. -_-


Do you ever not whine about imbalances?

You underestimate how import a mineral patch or two is in a matchup like ZvP. This was the most imbalanced ZvP map for zergs since I started watching the scene (since EVER 07) and you're going to bash someone for complaining about that? What about all the people that complained about ToTM?
Honestly, there's no point in posting just to bash someone whose comments are justified.


It's not just this isolated incident. I always see Harem posting about imbalances.

And you should have seen Mercury o.O
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?viewdays=0&show_part=5 <--- Articles Section on TL
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
April 16 2009 04:08 GMT
#13
Also, the first post doesn't say what these maps are for... I just checked the calendar and saw they are both being used in MSL Survivor starting tonight. Would be helpful to add that to the first post.
Racenilatr
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States2756 Posts
April 16 2009 05:10 GMT
#14
Does anyone actually play carthage when its a map of the week? I have tried some random times to host a game and see if anyone would join, but no one did Hopefully these new changes will spark some new innovation in playing Carthage. Byzantium 3....bleh
PH
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States6173 Posts
April 16 2009 06:59 GMT
#15
Byzantium's wider nat choke is gonna make it impossible for T to wall in...was it a T favored map?

Carthage is a garbage map, though...I have no idea why they're keeping it.

On April 16 2009 13:08 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
Also, the first post doesn't say what these maps are for... I just checked the calendar and saw they are both being used in MSL Survivor starting tonight. Would be helpful to add that to the first post.

That should be a given, since these are MSL only maps. Where else would they be used?
Hello
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
18:00
RO8 Round Robin Group - Day 4
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
ZZZero.O127
LiquipediaDiscussion
FEL
09:00
Cracow 2025
SKillous vs LamboLIVE!
Clem vs TBD
Reynor vs TBD
RotterdaM2730
ComeBackTV 1905
IndyStarCraft 696
WardiTV465
CranKy Ducklings191
3DClanTV 160
Rex133
EnkiAlexander 116
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 2730
IndyStarCraft 696
Rex 133
Vindicta 52
MindelVK 18
StarCraft: Brood War
Shine 351
firebathero 267
BeSt 163
ZZZero.O 127
Soulkey 123
Dewaltoss 94
Hyun 67
yabsab 32
Free 25
Terrorterran 8
Dota 2
Gorgc6368
qojqva4129
Counter-Strike
fl0m3712
flusha179
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox1137
Mew2King662
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor651
Liquid`Hasu451
Other Games
B2W.Neo765
Grubby307
Hui .195
KnowMe144
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2216
StarCraft 2
angryscii 4
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 38
• iHatsuTV 8
• Legendk 7
• davetesta5
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki6
• HerbMon 1
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• Nemesis2415
• WagamamaTV719
Other Games
• imaqtpie1029
• Shiphtur296
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
16h 23m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 15h
WardiTV European League
1d 21h
Online Event
1d 22h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL 20 Team Wars
FEL Cracov 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.