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[H] TVZ 2 Port Wraith

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
d1v
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Sweden868 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-27 16:45:02
February 27 2009 16:38 GMT
#1
Hi Guys

Some days ago, I watched a TvZ replay on Destination where T walls inn, places a proxy Factory, harasses with about 2 Vultures while going 2 Port Wraith, all off of 1 base. He then proceeds to build up a MMF force and tries to finish the Zerg off. I've been trying to copy this strategy, but so far I lost all of my games. Especially two Hatch builds in general seem to counter it perfectly.

What do you think, is this strategy viable at all?

EDIT: Found the replay
Adams Æbler
JinSin
Profile Joined January 2009
United States83 Posts
February 27 2009 16:43 GMT
#2
I eats Wraiths :O
aokces
Profile Joined October 2006
United States309 Posts
February 27 2009 16:48 GMT
#3
Haven't watched replay, but have you tried getting a dropship and ferrying vultures?
d1v
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Sweden868 Posts
February 27 2009 16:52 GMT
#4
No, I haven't. Until now, I've always proxied the Factory and snuck the Vultures in. I'm not really sure whether getting a Dropship in a timely fashion is possible at all. What has happened most of the time is that I wall inn, the Zerg sees it, thinks it is some sort of "standard" metal build and goes 2 Hatch. Especially Lurkers have been very annoying, as detection comes rather late and most Zergs decided to go for an elimination race, which until now, I always lost.
Adams Æbler
Cloud
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Sexico5880 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-27 16:55:17
February 27 2009 16:53 GMT
#5
Yes, it is viable, and yes, 2 hatch builds are dangerous because its relatively safe to wait for mutas, but that doesnt mean youre gonna automatically lose.

But a build order like this has to be pretty strict, all the way to your acad timing.

Using a dropship with vultures is possible when, and only when the zerg is going 3 hatch muta

Oh and you cant possibly lose with this vs a lurker opening heh, i suggest you work on a better build order.
BlueLaguna on West, msg for game.
d1v
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Sweden868 Posts
February 27 2009 16:56 GMT
#6
On February 28 2009 01:53 Cloud wrote:
Yes, it is viable, and yes, 2 hatch builds are dangerous because its relatively safe to wait for mutas, but that doesnt mean youre gonna automatically lose.

But a build order like this has to be pretty strict, all the way to your acad timing.

Using a dropship with vultures is possible when, and only when the zerg is going 3 hatch muta

Oh and you cant possibly lose with this vs a lurker opening heh, i suggest you work on a better build order.


What would you do, if a Zerg goes for 2 Hatch Lurker and goes on an all-out attack on your wall?
Adams Æbler
LonelyMargarita
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
1845 Posts
February 27 2009 16:57 GMT
#7
I've done it without the proxy fact, as I don't see the point in proxying if you're walling anyway. It works very well on destination, but yes it can easily lose to 2 hatch muta/scourge.

I put my fact and starports in a location where a lord won't be able to see them even if he suicides. I basically wall and gas like a normal tvp start on destination, but make 1 marine and no add-on to factory. 2 ports and your 1st vulture as soon as factory finishes, and a 2nd marine if he has more than 6 lings or looks to be trying to get a lord in. I send 2 vults out when they're done, and harass directly if he has no sunkens, run by if he has a sunken but I think I can get through, or go around to the opening behind his natural if I don't think I can get in (wraiths will give you vision of about 3 patches that the vults can hit once they make it there). After 4 wraiths I add control tower to one starport, 5th wraith in the other, and begin harass while starting to pump marines.

If they went muta/scourge, cloak is very important, so keep them alive till it's done while hunting lords, and keep pumping, but you'll need an ebay and turrets because your marine count will be low. If they went hydras, I go for an add-on to my factory to make tanks (this is why I don't proxy it), and I usually bunker expand. I can't help much beyond that because I only encountered 2 hatch muta one time, and I won pretty much every other game. I'm not sure at what point you're losing without a couple replays, but maybe you're letting them on to what you're doing too clearly if they're always countering with 2 hatch. I sometimes make 2 marines early and even a third to confuse them into thinking I'm wall-in expanding, but it can force you to cut scvs to keep even with supply without delaying your first four wraiths. Post some replays.
I <3 서지훈
Cloud
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Sexico5880 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-27 16:59:33
February 27 2009 16:58 GMT
#8
On February 28 2009 01:56 d1v wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2009 01:53 Cloud wrote:
Yes, it is viable, and yes, 2 hatch builds are dangerous because its relatively safe to wait for mutas, but that doesnt mean youre gonna automatically lose.

But a build order like this has to be pretty strict, all the way to your acad timing.

Using a dropship with vultures is possible when, and only when the zerg is going 3 hatch muta

Oh and you cant possibly lose with this vs a lurker opening heh, i suggest you work on a better build order.


What would you do, if a Zerg goes for 2 Hatch Lurker and goes on an all-out attack on your wall?


Rape his overlords with wraiths, build a bunker above your ramp and either get a fast acad or get mines and keep making vults followed by speed.
BlueLaguna on West, msg for game.
LonelyMargarita
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
1845 Posts
February 27 2009 17:10 GMT
#9
On February 28 2009 01:58 Cloud wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2009 01:56 d1v wrote:
On February 28 2009 01:53 Cloud wrote:
Yes, it is viable, and yes, 2 hatch builds are dangerous because its relatively safe to wait for mutas, but that doesnt mean youre gonna automatically lose.

But a build order like this has to be pretty strict, all the way to your acad timing.

Using a dropship with vultures is possible when, and only when the zerg is going 3 hatch muta

Oh and you cant possibly lose with this vs a lurker opening heh, i suggest you work on a better build order.


What would you do, if a Zerg goes for 2 Hatch Lurker and goes on an all-out attack on your wall?


Rape his overlords with wraiths, build a bunker above your ramp and either get a fast acad or get mines and keep making vults followed by speed.


I find the bunker with tank and fast science vessel also works, since you already have a port with control tower. Forgo a wraith to start the sci fac as soon as you see lair/den with no spire. The wall then bunker will hold them off until the vessel gets out, and the tank+wraiths you have left kill the lurkers instantly.

This is why the vulture harass was important. Either you get a few drones and set him notably back, or you save your vultures to kill any lings he tries to come out with. If he doesn't have a lot of lings with the first couple lurks, he really can't break the wall. And if you still have your vultures he has to keep his hydras unmorphed til he kills them or he'll lose all his lings.
I <3 서지훈
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France7914 Posts
February 27 2009 17:31 GMT
#10
Watch Leta vs Luxury at Destination during Winner League.. You can find the vod on jon747 youtube account of today.

This build is very hard to execute, cuz you have to make a lot of damage with your wraith, and therefore you need an excellent multitasking, and a good wraith control.

Oh, and I have a nice tip: What I usually do while using wraith is to lock an scv between my depots and the mineral line, and then I use it in a control group to stack my wraith like mutas. Then I use two hotkeys for my wraith group: one for the stacking/attacking/moving which include the scv, and one for cloack, which doesn't.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
UbRi
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
Italy603 Posts
February 27 2009 17:41 GMT
#11
This is a build i personally love, it's very micro intensive, actually the outcome of the build itself depends almost entirely on the micro, other elements are how much zerg expects it and his build order, but against any build order it's possible to pull it off.
d1v
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Sweden868 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-27 17:58:27
February 27 2009 17:57 GMT
#12
On February 28 2009 01:58 Cloud wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2009 01:56 d1v wrote:
On February 28 2009 01:53 Cloud wrote:
Yes, it is viable, and yes, 2 hatch builds are dangerous because its relatively safe to wait for mutas, but that doesnt mean youre gonna automatically lose.

But a build order like this has to be pretty strict, all the way to your acad timing.

Using a dropship with vultures is possible when, and only when the zerg is going 3 hatch muta

Oh and you cant possibly lose with this vs a lurker opening heh, i suggest you work on a better build order.


What would you do, if a Zerg goes for 2 Hatch Lurker and goes on an all-out attack on your wall?


Rape his overlords with wraiths, build a bunker above your ramp and either get a fast acad or get mines and keep making vults followed by speed.


I guess getting Mines is the best idea in this case. It's a logical follow up and doesn't require much micro. Thanks for the idea!

Watch Leta vs Luxury at Destination during Winner League.. You can find the vod on jon747 youtube account of today.

This build is very hard to execute, cuz you have to make a lot of damage with your wraith, and therefore you need an excellent multitasking, and a good wraith control.

Oh, and I have a nice tip: What I usually do while using wraith is to lock an scv between my depots and the mineral line, and then I use it in a control group to stack my wraith like mutas. Then I use two hotkeys for my wraith group: one for the stacking/attacking/moving which include the scv, and one for cloack, which doesn't.


Thanks for pointing that game out, will watch it ASAP.
Adams Æbler
merach
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States182 Posts
February 27 2009 18:19 GMT
#13
probably one of the slickest executions of this build on a rampless map, Upmagic vs Yellow[arnc] on longinus. Fast expand -> proxy fact, 1 vult, float fact into Z main, make more vults in Z main -> wraith harass-> drop 4 rax+2 ebay and go for the win with 5-rax 1/1 adjusted timing sunkbreak

http://www.leechvideo.com/video/view693182.html
cgrinker
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3824 Posts
February 27 2009 21:07 GMT
#14
2 Port Wraith? DOUBLE LAWLZ
KingofHearts
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Japan562 Posts
February 27 2009 21:28 GMT
#15
ive done this build many times. it works best with bases that can make ling tight wall to defend 9 pool rushes. etc lost temple position 9
moshi moshi~
GHOSTCLAW
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States17042 Posts
February 27 2009 22:47 GMT
#16
On February 28 2009 06:07 cgrinker wrote:
2 Port Wraith? DOUBLE LAWLZ


I think that's in the PvT guide, but it still applies here. xD
PhotographerLiquipedia. Drop me a pm if you've got questions/need help.
oogabooga
Profile Joined February 2009
United States11 Posts
February 28 2009 03:25 GMT
#17
I'm a zerg player in vanilla Starcraft. How do you anticipate a wraith rush on LT? Is it when they have few marines and a wall in? It always screws up my muta build. If I knew I would go hydras.
oogabooga
Profile Joined February 2009
United States11 Posts
February 28 2009 03:37 GMT
#18
P.S. Can anybody suggest a hydra build order? I have no idea how to do it correctly.
merach
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States182 Posts
February 28 2009 03:55 GMT
#19
On February 28 2009 12:37 oogabooga wrote:
P.S. Can anybody suggest a hydra build order? I have no idea how to do it correctly.


Not sure how BO's work in vanilla, but i'm pretty sure 3 hatch muta still works, so if you're doing 3 hatch muta and you see a vult, drop a den as fast as possible, and just micro as hard as you can to minimize damage. If you can, drop a sunken, that will stop vultures hella quick.
AzureEye
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1360 Posts
February 28 2009 04:36 GMT
#20
How about you stop playing so cheesy-gay? Just play standard
Terrans who whine: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=107788
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