• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:31
CEST 09:31
KST 16:31
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview9[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy9
Community News
Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw?8Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris45Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!15Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw? #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again! 2024/25 Off-Season Roster Moves
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Monday Nights Weeklies LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments 🏆 GTL Season 2 – StarCraft II Team League $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo)
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies
Brood War
General
ASL20 General Discussion Starcraft at lower levels TvP No Rain in ASL20? Victoria gamers BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
Is there English video for group selection for ASL [ASL20] Ro24 Group F [IPSL] CSLAN Review and CSLPRO Reimagined! Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s) Gtx660 graphics card replacement
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
How Culture and Conflict Imp…
TrAiDoS
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 744 users

[FPVOD] An fpvod on straight up PvT (1a2a3a)

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
-orb-
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States5770 Posts
January 31 2009 23:44 GMT
#1
Hey guys, I decided to do an fpvod on straight up pvt on python. When I say straight up, I mean no drops, no reavers, etc. I wanted to show how to ez mode win with protoss just 1a2a3a'ing the terran at a C- level. This is aimed at D/D+/C- protoss players to hopefully help you out in PvT against standard turtle terrans.

Note: As I am C- I am no where near pro, so keep that in mind

My apm in this game was about 240, with my opponent's at 250 (opponent was 3980 C- terran).

Here is the vod:

http://files.filefront.com/orbpvtwithcommentaryv2avi/;13157643;/fileinfo.html

Some things I forgot to mention in the vod:

1: The difference between 11 and 12 gas is the timing of when you can get your goon range started by. I just felt like mentioning this in case noobs were thinking "why cut probes to get gas at 11 when u could just do it a little later and it probably doesn't affect much"
2: The gateway placement at my wall off at 3 o'clock is very intentional. Gateway placement like this allows units to pop out on the left side, so that late game I can produce goons as well as zealots from those gateways and still use them with my army. This prevents trapped goons if i forget and accidentally build a goon at those gateways.
3: The cannon placement at bottom right is also very intentional. I used this placement to block off the probes so that vultures can't go into the mineral line itself. This helps keep the vultures farther away from my probes so that I can bring the probes to the gas to avoid getting shot when he's target firing and my cannons are killing them.

Here's the youtubes (it's 20 minutes long so had to split it into 2 parts):




And here's the replay:
[image loading]


Please leave your comments/suggestions/review
'life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery'
how sad that sc2 has no shield battery :(
RisingBlade
Profile Joined November 2008
39 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-01 00:27:39
February 01 2009 00:26 GMT
#2
Awesome FPVOD. Great commentary, it gave me a lot of insight and how to react according to what Terran does. Thanks so much =p. If possible please continue with the FPVODs. I'm sure a lot of people would appreciate it. Also liked how you posted a download-able, youtube, and replay version. Really helps a lot!
Dazed.
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3301 Posts
February 01 2009 00:31 GMT
#3
Small question; it seems like in the pro gamer scene and the foreign scene, carrier pvt use to be the fav thing to do, now its really switched to an arbiter heavy game. What makes Arbiters more advantageous than Arbiters? :S
Never say Die! ||| Fight you? No, I want to kill you.
Oystein
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
Norway1602 Posts
February 01 2009 00:32 GMT
#4
Nice VOD.

Did you really say you think that playing 6 vs 3 is the optimal positions?? Then cross spot, and worst 6 vs 9? Dunno if you mixed up the positions or not.

Because its totally the other way, Cross is easiest, then 9, then 3. When you are playing at the 6 position. Tho I guess you can make arguments for 9 being as hard as 3 (example sieging via the island into your main) But cross positions is without a doubt the best pos to play vs.

Also using the 3 natural as your 3rd is probably the worst expo you can take vs 12 beside the upper left corner, since he then can take his min only while he pushes against your 3rd with the wall working as a good defense for him by limiting your flanking options. The corner expo, your min only or the 3 main or both the 9 expos would all have been better choices.

Another thing I was rather surprised by was that you sent several new probes when the scout probe died, its way easier just keeping it at his choke and move back every time he moves out with the marines or just use goons for scouting if you lose your probe. You want all your probes mining

Beside these few things I really liked the VOD and it contained lots of useful tips for low ranked players like pylonwalls, goon positioning etc. And you explained your thoughts behind your actions well. Keep up the good job.
God Hates a Coward
Racenilatr
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States2756 Posts
February 01 2009 00:39 GMT
#5
You can upload a maximum of 11 minutes actually. Youtube says 10 but it's actually 11.


I suck at defending against drops too. Especially early game drops. They are so devastating with speed vultures. The hardest thing is realizing people are dropping me

I believe this guy used 2 dropships to drop you because you can't really elevator vultures. This Terran was a HORRIBLE noob. Staying off of 2 bases is just ridiculous. This was like a +3 timing push or something without the third base/+3 attack. 17 minutes into the game and you aren't even maxed. You didn't even reach 200/200 that game I think. That means you have a problem with your macro. I don't quite know what it is, since your minerals were low, but this terran was just lol. I can't believe he was almost C too :/
Tadzio
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
3340 Posts
February 01 2009 00:54 GMT
#6
thanks for putting the effort in!
tdotkrayz
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States136 Posts
February 01 2009 00:58 GMT
#7
On February 01 2009 09:31 Dazed_Spy wrote:
Small question; it seems like in the pro gamer scene and the foreign scene, carrier pvt use to be the fav thing to do, now its really switched to an arbiter heavy game. What makes Arbiters more advantageous than Arbiters? :S


Well, maybe one kind of Arbiters is more advantageous than another kind because it's in the hands of a better player?
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
February 01 2009 01:06 GMT
#8
I like the vod, but in the early/mid portions you make a few condescending remarks out of the blue that hurt the overall quality of the video (ie addressing things to "the D+ noobs out there" or whatever, it comes off poorly here). It doesn't help that this guy makes really bizarre choices that are easy to point out as big mistakes. Might want to be a more conscious about it in the next one, otherwise solid vod overall.

Seriously this dude much cherry pick like hell to be almost C. Or maybe he really wanted to try mass drops and didn't plan out the game enough to decide how he was going to play late game.
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
Psyonic_Reaver
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States4336 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-01 01:36:23
February 01 2009 01:35 GMT
#9
There are some maps that Carriers are better then Arbiters and vice versa. It also depends on the player. Some like Arbiters better.

Overall Arbiters allows you to be more mobile with your army via recall and stasis helps even the big macro battles out, espcially if you can nail 4-6 tanks with 1 shot.

Carriers are a costly investment and take time to mass. You don't go at a Terran with 2 Carriers and expect to win. You need at least 4-5 before using them so they are effective. Not to mention if the Terran sees the Carrier switch, he'll be prepared with Goliaths or Wraiths.

Was a good commentary. Explained small tidbits of information that really help out those players looking for it or not realizing flaws in their gameplay.
So wait? I'm bad? =(
-orb-
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States5770 Posts
February 01 2009 01:39 GMT
#10
On February 01 2009 09:31 Dazed_Spy wrote:
Small question; it seems like in the pro gamer scene and the foreign scene, carrier pvt use to be the fav thing to do, now its really switched to an arbiter heavy game. What makes Arbiters more advantageous than Arbiters? :S


Well I think it's more a matter of preference really. I am personally terrible at using carriers. I think my win percentage of games where I went to carriers is something like 10% or less. It's not that I can't micro them, but I think I overdo it and get a ton, and you really need to just get a bunch with a powerful ground army to back them up.

In any case, arbiters are more mobile and have a larger variety of uses. Stasis is great for holding off a big terran push, and recall is ridiculously powerful (to the point of instant-win in many situations such as this game), not to mention the fact that arbiters cloak your army, so if he is out of scans/forgets to scan/doesn't have turrets around, that can give you advantages in certain places.

On February 01 2009 09:32 Oystein wrote:Because its totally the other way, Cross is easiest, then 9, then 3. When you are playing at the 6 position. Tho I guess you can make arguments for 9 being as hard as 3 (example sieging via the island into your main) But cross positions is without a doubt the best pos to play vs.


Thanks for the general positive feedback, I like your vods a lot too . As for the positions, maybe it's just at the C- level, but whenever I play against a terran at close positions, they ALWAYS slow siege along the cliff, and I always have a terrible time trying to break it. And yeah, you're right I should have expanded to the 9 natural rather than 3, I wasn't really thinking about which one would be best. Thanks

On February 01 2009 09:39 Racenilatr wrote:17 minutes into the game and you aren't even maxed. You didn't even reach 200/200 that game I think. That means you have a problem with your macro. I don't quite know what it is, since your minerals were low, but this terran was just lol


It was the harass really I think. He was dropping me in multiple locations at once (main + expo) and since I'm slow to react, it was hurting my economy little by little every time he did it.

On February 01 2009 10:06 heyoka wrote:
I like the vod, but in the early/mid portions you make a few condescending remarks out of the blue that hurt the overall quality of the video (ie addressing things to "the D+ noobs out there


Alright I'll try to avoid that kind of stuff next time. I guess I took it out of tasteless's book, because he often refers to any non-pros as newbs, and yet when he says it, it somehow comes off in a non-negative way so that it just sounds like he's referring to a group of people rather than insulting them. That's really what I was trying to say, but I suppose you're right and I could have just said "D+ players" instead of "D+ noobs"

Thanks for watching
'life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery'
how sad that sc2 has no shield battery :(
anderoo
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada1876 Posts
February 01 2009 01:44 GMT
#11
lol at your title
i was seriously just coming to check TL for some PvT FPVODs for a friend, so thanks!
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
February 01 2009 01:59 GMT
#12
On February 01 2009 09:58 tdotkrayz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 01 2009 09:31 Dazed_Spy wrote:
Small question; it seems like in the pro gamer scene and the foreign scene, carrier pvt use to be the fav thing to do, now its really switched to an arbiter heavy game. What makes Arbiters more advantageous than Arbiters? :S


Well, maybe one kind of Arbiters is more advantageous than another kind because it's in the hands of a better player?

?

What?

I accidentally an Arbiter.



Anyway, the main advantage of arbiters over carriers is that it requires a less intensive investment, and they are useful from pretty much the moment they come out. On the other hand, carriers are useless one by one, and you need to wait for numbers to build up a little.

Because arbiters drain less of your income, you can maintain a strong ground army, while if you are going for carriers your ground army won't be as strong and I think it creates a timing where you are vulnerable. The strength of carriers also seem to be more dependent on map characteristics than arbiters as well.
imperfect
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Canada1652 Posts
February 01 2009 02:04 GMT
#13
Uhh the main reason i use arbiters is because lately in PvT, upgrades have become a huge thing. Before, I used to be able to take 2-3 carriers and start harassing while i keep adding more, but 3-3 goliaths put a stop to taht.

plus, arbs are less big of an investment as others said.

also, stasis + storm = awesome~!11!`!
blind bisu free and anytime fanboy.
NeVeR
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
1352 Posts
February 01 2009 02:07 GMT
#14
Jake why so gosu? :o
-orb-
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States5770 Posts
February 01 2009 02:10 GMT
#15
On February 01 2009 11:07 NeVeR wrote:
Jake why so gosu? :o


keke <3
'life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery'
how sad that sc2 has no shield battery :(
Knickknack
Profile Joined February 2004
United States1187 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-01 02:17:51
February 01 2009 02:14 GMT
#16
Well you are honest about where you are coming from and all that so I wont be too critical, and the vod may help some. But whats with the 1a2a3a remarks from a p player >_>....I thought it might be mass zealot/goon early win or something, but it was harass game and a arb recall ending. One thing about 11assim vs 12 though. When you got range you had 40gas extra...it was mins holding you back more than gas. When you want a bit faster goon/range players go 13core/19range instead of usual 14/20, cut at 11 has nothing to do with it. Can hardly think of a reason to cut at 11 besides some early gas intensive build like dt drop perhaps. Though depending on map/min layout/plit sometimes you can 11assim with constant production still.
| www.ArtofProtoss.vze.com |
-orb-
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States5770 Posts
February 01 2009 02:22 GMT
#17
On February 01 2009 11:14 Knickknack wrote:But whats with the 1a2a3a remarks from a p player >_>


Well cause when you look to improve in pvt against the terran ball, usually you look to use more micro-intensive methods like getting templar with storm, getting zealot/dt bombs, etc, but when I engaged his main push of tanks, I just attack moved really. Didn't have anything special except for that one recall on top of his tanks which wasn't even necessary. And of course the recall at the end was just so he'd know to leave since he'd lost at that point anyways.
'life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery'
how sad that sc2 has no shield battery :(
Racenilatr
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States2756 Posts
February 01 2009 02:52 GMT
#18
o ya, i forgot to mention it, well i didnt forget because I couldn't confirm it until I watched the replay. You only had like 8 gateways literally the whole game. with 3 bases, you can get at least 10 gateways just to let you know then add a couple more gateways after you get a fourth but not too many, because your main should be mined out or almost mined out.
omninmo
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
2349 Posts
February 01 2009 04:24 GMT
#19
great stuff. my only critique is that you should have have at least 6-8 MORE gateways and in better positions. great VOD. thanks
-orb-
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States5770 Posts
February 01 2009 13:43 GMT
#20
Yeah my gateway timing hurts me.

I usually wait until I'm maxed (which didn't happen this game iirc) to drop like 10 more gateways to be able to rebuild after a recall, but yeah in general my gateways were a little low this game.
'life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery'
how sad that sc2 has no shield battery :(
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 29m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech71
StarCraft: Brood War
ggaemo 180
Zeus 120
sSak 103
Leta 60
ToSsGirL 54
NaDa 35
Shine 30
Noble 30
ajuk12(nOOB) 24
JulyZerg 21
[ Show more ]
Sacsri 18
Hm[arnc] 12
Bale 8
ivOry 4
Dota 2
BananaSlamJamma127
League of Legends
C9.Mang0258
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K768
shoxiejesuss268
Other Games
singsing760
JimRising 421
Mew2King122
NeuroSwarm53
ceh91
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1404
• Stunt962
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2h 29m
PiGosaur Monday
16h 29m
LiuLi Cup
1d 3h
Replay Cast
1d 16h
The PondCast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Maru vs SHIN
MaNa vs MaxPax
OSC
2 days
MaNa vs SHIN
SKillous vs ShoWTimE
Bunny vs TBD
Cham vs TBD
RSL Revival
3 days
Reynor vs Astrea
Classic vs sOs
BSL Team Wars
3 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Dewalt
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
4 days
GuMiho vs Cham
ByuN vs TriGGeR
Cosmonarchy
4 days
TriGGeR vs YoungYakov
YoungYakov vs HonMonO
HonMonO vs TriGGeR
[BSL 2025] Weekly
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Cure vs Bunny
Creator vs Zoun
BSL Team Wars
5 days
Team Hawk vs Team Sziky
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 18: Qualifier 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
Maestros of the Game
Sisters' Call Cup
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

LASL Season 20
2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
RSL Revival: Season 2
EC S1
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
Skyesports Masters 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.