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this is the hardest match up for me T_T.
this was just recently on iccup im the yellow terran HIV
http://rapidshare.com/files/119197252/tvp_iccup.rep.html
[this is my first time uploading anything so i hope i did it right if not ill try to fix it]
i think the reason why i lost this match was i failed to destroy his fast expand i have no idea how to stop it i tried to go 2 fac but he just outproduced me easily.
i think also when i kept trying to push he seemed to stop it quite easily =( so if anybody can give me examples or a way on how terran is supposed to push thanks
i also have a few questions about TvP
1. whenever i get my expand how many factorys should i add? my friend tells me to get about 8-10 all at the same time im still producing units but i find this very hard as i end up making units or stoping unit production to build factorys
2. i cant find ways to harrass terran, cannons stop my vultures from raiding and if i try to drop tank / vultures it seems like he can easily destroy it before i do any damage thats worth more then a tank / 2 vults.
3. should i get science vessels every game nowadays, alot of tvp ive played seem to have protoss taking a 3rd and going arbiters very quickly,(also should i get them anyway if he doesnt go arbiters? are there ablities worth the tech / cost?)
my last question is are upgrades important? my friend who taught me the little that i know about terran tells me that upgrades arent really worth it in TvP but i thought upgrades were always important so if anybody can give me examples about when they would come in handy plz ^_^
thanks for the help!!
ps this is also my first topic for tl.net so i hope i followed the guidelines right)
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wut your HIV?
Before season2 started I saw u at the top. (you were rank 1 when everyone was 0-0 1000 D)
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I don't play P, but I play TvP casually because it's fun [:
When I have two bases (main and natural) I always have at least 6 factories as the game goes into midgame and try a timing push.
Not sure how you can harrass but you should mine all over the map. As a toss player, it's annoying and it also makes you look stronger (if you look at the minimap, mines make Terran army look "bigger"). If you can probe harrass would be great. Mine where he could expand so you know when he's expanding.
Another thing is toss usually builds 2-3 cannons for his expansions. I think 12 vultures can get the job done. So before you attack his cannons, mine like fuck so it takes time for goons to destroy spider mines.
Mines do a good job [:
my last question is are upgrades important? my friend who taught me the little that i know about terran tells me that upgrades arent really worth it in TvP but i thought upgrades were always important so if anybody can give me examples about when they would come in handy plz ^_^
your friend is an idiot lol. 3-3 Terran RAPES protoss so fucking badly.
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He went FE into a Gateway, so he didn't have any cannons for quite some time - dropping 4 vultures with mines into his mineral line(s) would've hurt quite a bit, especially if he doesn't have observers yet. Even better, if you could've sneaked a vulture or two in his main before dragoons, you would've gotten some easy pickings.
I don't know if your early push attempts were really worth it. To me it seemed like you just lost units that could've helped you get your natural expo up earlier. Personally, I would've cut losses after losing the first tank and marines (But I'm just a lowly D player, what do I know). Bring an SCV or two along with your pushes to build turrets/walls, they really help against observers and shuttles. Good information is so important for Protoss when trying to break a push, because they need to know where the mines are, when the tanks are unsieged, etc.
I think you might've cut SCV production too soon - I don't really know since I mainly play Protoss, but your econ seemed to be quite behind his.
Oh, and upgrades are incredible for a large Terran army. All the ground units Protoss throws at them just melt away.
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The thing that popped out the most to me was when you first fought him. What you want to do is go in at one time and crush him. Keep you force really tight, don't shoot at his pylon, and go behind his goons with your vulture to put mines there. As a toss player it's really annoying because not only do I have to get two goons to shoot it, but when the vulture gets off the mine and bugs out trying to get off of it, it will cause any really close goons to bug out a bit as well.
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Anyone who says upgrades for terran metal is not worth it never played pvt
Let me tell you a funny story that djetterstyle told me. His friend asked him if terran metal 3-3 is scary. And djetterstyle's answer was terran 1-1 is scary.
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On June 01 2008 10:12 SnowFantasy wrote:
wut your HIV?
Before season2 started I saw u at the top. (you were rank 1 when everyone was 0-0 1000 D)
o.o;; thats impossible since i just made this account today!! :O anyways thanks everybody for all the help ^_^!!
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United States24813 Posts
On June 01 2008 14:22 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
Anyone who says upgrades for terran metal is not worth it never played pvt
Let me tell you a funny story that djetterstyle told me. His friend asked him if terran metal 3-3 is scary. And djetterstyle's answer was terran 1-1 is scary.
Haha yeah. Upgrades are one of the keys to dealing with the style of protoss that you are asking about because of timing.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
After you expand, you can either go with 4 factories, which is a take-my-third-base-and-roll-out-slower style, or 6 factories, which is a take-advantage-of-the-timing-when-P-double-expoes to do a timing push.
Re: harassing, sometimes it's just not that important. If he has 2 cannons, maybe 3, you can probably take them out with ~12 vultures and then hit probes. If he has more than that you don't need to harass, you've already forced him to spend so much money building useless shit.
Science vessels are nice but their prohibitive gas cost lowers your tank / goliath count. Depends on how much you feel you need them. They're a bit micro-intensive, but again, they save you from having to scan a lot, and EMPing arbiters is incredibly effective.
Upgrades are very important TvP - unless you're going for a a timing push, in which case you won't get it in time usually and the gas is better spent on tanks. (Though a +1 weapon isn't unheard of.) If you're taking your third and being slow, then definitely get dual armories and start upgrading. And since you'll need starport->science facility, if the map calls for it, you might want to get a dropship then and do some harass. A bit of a good (though a little old) discussion here.
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Upgrades are definitely important, especially vs carriers. But either way, you should build an armoury and begin upgrading +1 attack once you have about 6-8 factories.
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Terran 3-3 is so fucknig scary is because seige tanks get +5 (i htink) per 1 upgrade in seige. Are you kidding me? And other metal are quite teh same. Upgrades own.
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Important thing TvP is to continue vulture harass/mine laying as much as you can. If a Protoss is getting overly greedy with expansions, try to catch any maynarding Probes or any undefended expansions with Vultures, laying mines as you go to stop his army movement. If you see he has a lot of cannons and relatively few Probes, try making a push on his natural - high expansion count + cannons + few probes means that his army will be comparatively weak compared to yours.
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Terran 3-3 gives me nightmares...(I am P)
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1. whenever i get my expand how many factorys should i add? my friend tells me to get about 8-10 all at the same time im still producing units but i find this very hard as i end up making units or stoping unit production to build factorys
I think this depends on your playstyle and what your opponent is doing. If you see a Protoss taking a quick third base, you have three possibilities:
1. You prepare for a timing push, in which case you'll need 6 Factories in total (two with Machine Shop for Tanks).
2. You decide to match him in expansions, build 4 Factories and start the macro-game. Of course, you'll need to add about 2-4 Factories after you took your third.
3. You decide to match him in expansions, build 3 Factories and 2 Armories thereafter and go into some 1-1 Tornado push. Of course, you'll need to add about 2-3 Factories after you took your third.
2. i cant find ways to harrass terran, cannons stop my vultures from raiding and if i try to drop tank / vultures it seems like he can easily destroy it before i do any damage thats worth more then a tank / 2 vults.
Well, if you drop a Siege Tank and two Vultures near his mineral lines, you should come out ahead. Just one Tank volley kills a shitload of Probes and the Vultures should get some kills as well, before being killed. Oh, and make sure you siege up out of the range of the cannons. Mind you, drops are not always meant to deal a lot of damage, but sometimes they're used to distract your opponent, when you're about to attack him at the main front.
3. should i get science vessels every game nowadays, alot of tvp ive played seem to have protoss taking a 3rd and going arbiters very quickly,(also should i get them anyway if he doesnt go arbiters? are there ablities worth the tech / cost?)
I think it is definitely important to have one Science Vessel with your army at all the time. Don't mass them however, one or two will get the job done.
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Is it just me, or does that code thing with the cats annoy the fuck out of you to
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I'm no expert at either race but there are a few things I noticed that should have been improved:
1. When he was defending your pushes he continued to boost his economy, get robotics out, and build gateways for his macro.
2. When you were trying to push with the few units at the start you should have realized that his army is growing faster than yours and your units are being wasted.
3. If you planned on persisting your push your main force(tanks) were attacking the pylon, as mentioned before I think.
4. You spent all your time focusing on control, which lead to your base, economy, and macro rate staying the same.
I'm a P player and my PvT isn't great, but looking at your replay compared to the T's I lose to those are some things I noticed. Hope It helps, GL. 
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Vesselz surely worth the efforts, EMP and that shield thing is #1 even if he has a pure goon/lot army
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perhaps you're not playing aggressive enough. Most players, regardless of race should be able to take down a fast expantion if they go a unit favorable build (rush builds). For example, in a PvP match-up if one player goes double gate and the other goes fast expo, the player that goes double gate should have the upper hand. Same with a TvP, even if he goes fast expo, you have a lot more units already and a better economy for a short period of time; until he puts probes at his expantion. The fact that you're losing to something like this signifies that a) that player has a very good defence and is VERY good. b) you just arnt being aggressive enough. I admit, this idea shouldn't garentee a win, all I am saying is you should have the upper hand if you go double fact.
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EPT
