EPT[M][T] Haunted Mansion 3
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Calix
3379 Posts
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Calix
3379 Posts
On September 07 2016 04:43 Rels wrote: Hello NeverUnlucky, hello Calix. I see that you are both new to this forum and that you both signed up for the two games currently open for signups. If you are not newbie from forum mafia in general, disregard what I'm going to say. A game a forum mafia takes quite a lot of daily time, ideally you should take at least 1h per day to play properly, and some people commit way more than that. Since you are both signed up for two games at the same time, I will warn you about it; if you are new to forum mafia and are doing something fulltime during the day, I would not recommend you to play two games at the same time. But if you're like a student and you have a lot of free time, it is possible. Again, if you're not forum mafia newbs, sorry for this ^^ I just wanna make sure you do not underestimate the time a forum mafia game can take. Ello there. I wouldn't describe either of us as particularly experienced (NU is relatively new himself while I've been playing for almost a year) but we herald from the same site and neither of us lurk out games or anything like that. Both of us are students; I have a lot of free time for the next few weeks myself. I understand that lurking has been an issue in the past so this post is just to say that this won't be the case with regards to myself. If there's anything else that people want to ask/ remind us of then they're welcome to go ahead. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
Shapelog wrote: Hello Cal and NU, Welcome to the scene. What are you currently in school for? What would you say is your strongest part of your scum and town play style? What do you struggle with? Do you think you have what it takes to out-joke me? I ensure you, that 57% of your answers will be considered. 1. I'm going to be taking English at university. 2. I'm fairly consistent as both alignments. Apparently my scum/ town play are also very similar. (personally I disagree but I am biased since I know my own alignment from the get-go so we'll see what others have to say on that point depending on what I roll) I'm persistent and can usually get my scum-reads lynched since I'm typically one of the more active, influential players in the thread... 3. ...however I'm terrible at reading players correctly. I'm also prone to getting tunnel-vision and becoming complacent with my town-reads/ not reading them properly once I've decided they were town. 4. Nine times out of ten, no. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On September 07 2016 16:22 Vivax wrote: Hello Calix. My name is Vivax, you can call me Vivax., we have many things in common, like the number of letters and the last letter. I inofficially run the newcomer assessment on the TL mafia subforum. Before playing here, some players must go through the procedure of answering a few questions designed to establish their general ability to answer questions and assess their abilities. Shapelog amusingly tried to mimic this procedure in an attempt to take a jib at me (and most likely at you). Rels does the security checks for newcomers. Most of these questions are designed to perfection the game of mafia. I will consult with kitaman afterwards who is the head of the database department and is developing an automated behaviour processing system with the help of Palmar who is the assistant who codes words per post algorithms and similar minor things. Let's start: 1. There are two guardians, one by each door. One guardian always tells the truth, and the other guardian always lies. What one question can you ask a guardian to find out which door leads to heaven? 2. If you would be an animal, what would you be? 3. If I posted this post in game, what would you think my alignment was? 4. What's the size of your ego expressed in football fields? You may choose to express it in bathtubs if you so wish. 5. Think about the colour red for 10 seconds. Then name a tool. This sounds like some sort of personality test more than anything else. Wonder what I'll learn about myself today, eh? 1. "If I asked the other guardian which door leads to Heaven, what door would they point to?" The truthful guardian would tell you that the lying guardian would point to the door that doesn't lead to Heaven, thus revealing the door that does. The lying guardian would claim that the truthful guardian would point to the door that doesn't lead to Heaven. (this would be false as it requires the truthful guardian to lie) In both cases, the guardians would reveal which door doesn't lead to Heaven and thus the other door can be picked. 2. A cat, because they're independent, commonplace, and can sneak around places without drawing a lot of attention to themselves. 3. While posting a generic post is something that a scum would do in order to look like they're contributing, it could also be something that town would do in order to glean information about a player. I'd lean towards 'town' (have put the lines in bold that would have given me that impression had this been posted in a mafia game) 4. Two bathtubs. 5. An axe. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
- Names aren't allowed in Last Wills but if you wanted to reference a player (e.g., say you're a Sheriff-Vig who wanted to say "I checked X/ this player is innocent/ guilty") then you could quote some post numbers by said player, quote something they said, etc. I don't think LWs will be that useful for the protectives unless nobody died on a certain night because telling the scum who was protected last night in the event of a kill just needlessly gives the scum information on what the healing roles are thinking. If anyone knows what the Doctor roles would even need to tell the town (aside from telling us who they scum-read or something) then I'm all ears. - There's always the chance that the scum can interfere with the message being given. Although they can only rewrite LWs twice, we can't rely on the LWs much but I think it's good to establish a way for the dead townies to communicate with the rest of the thread because I'm not seeing a way that the scum manipulation of the LWs/ votes can be prevented. - We might want to be careful with policy lynching apathetic/ inactive players or being sloppy with CFDs in general. I've been told that TL is more open to policy lynches compared to where I come from, but since lynched players become Sheriff-Vigs, I think it would be suboptimal play to give lazy players a KPN in the early stages. This point might be moot, however, as I don't know how anyone here plays or if anyone would qualify as policy-lynch material. (save for NU who I wouldn't consider a policy lynch) Anyway, hi. It's pretty late for me so if I randomly drop off, don't be surprised. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On September 09 2016 06:46 Shapelog wrote: PL's here basically refer to Meta, inactivity, Behavior, or just the basics of scum hunting (I.E. Obv scum) I am guessing when you said NU cannot be a PL, you meant activity right? I mean activity, yeah. On September 09 2016 06:46 Vivax wrote: Bolded seems like fluff tbh cause you don't seem to have any own ideas to contribute for this part. "we have to find out what to do" . Who would've thought. Your last point is also pretty uninformative. It's like you're suggesting not to lynch. Doesn't look as bad as your second though. But still. You get a bit of benefit of the doubt for this being your first game here, but if somebody is meh for me right now it's you. My point says we shouldn't rely too much on LWs but that establishing good communication with the dead is important. While that's not some profound insight, there are clearly ideas being expressed here. What are you even referring to with the bolded part? Because it bears no resemblance to anything I said. "suggesting not to lynch" - No, I said we shouldn't rush into a lynch or policy-lynch early on. Nowhere did I imply that we shouldn't lynch. (which isn't even possible, lol) "benefit of the doubt" - No I don't. Just because I'm new to the site doesn't mean I'm clueless. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On September 09 2016 06:59 Shapelog wrote: Hmm, I wanted to say vivax came into the game and only has pointed out sus, things in other people's posts (aka following mafia agenda). But he did play around a little bit with skynx and palmar post. I don't follow. Why would the opening posts be AI/ indicative of town as you suggest here? I just saw them as weird meta references and trolling so I'd like to know where you found potential townie motivation. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On September 09 2016 07:00 Vivax wrote: What do you mean with "we should establish a way for dead townies to communicate" then? Cause to me it reads exactly like "we should do stuff" without having an idea of how to implement such a feat. I just suggested a way in which Sheriffs could communicate their results to the town by saying "they can get around the no-names rule by using post numbers" which is literally giving a suggestion as to how we communicate with the dead. On September 09 2016 07:00 NeverUnlucky wrote: Also, she infered that town had PRs before they were lynched which shows she didn't correctly read the setup. It's NAI, but To add to your point about her fluff: she used words like "we" -- Scum tend to use those words more than town to fit in the group. Scum!Calix uses "we" a lot. She ends her post with an excuse to why she wouldn't post in the upcoming hours. It's something scum tends to do more, but it still is NAI. Scum-reading Calix. @Vivax, don't give me or her the benefit of the doubt because we're "new", we aren't. We're both familiar to mafia. Giving either of us (especially her) a chance, it could be all we need to fly under your radar. Using the correct pronouns is not a scum tell and never will be. You just used it yourself in your last line because it's a common word in the English language. Also seriously? You are aware that I moved to a different site to get AWAY from crappy meta reads and the first thing you do is give me shit via a crappy meta read? | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On September 09 2016 07:14 Shapelog wrote: So you read is really on: So....Your scum reading her, based off of (meta) pro-noun usage. ![[image loading]](http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/brilliant_david_tennant.gif) Sson. Its not. I am not calling vivax town lol. That post is basically NAI about vivax (as of now). I thought he came in and only posted sus. towards players, but his two earlier posts weren't that. Later, if he does, those two posts won't matter if all he is doing is shading people only (or roughly only) only reason I posted it was to spark some more discussion lol. What makes you think he was throwing shade on other players (as opposed to say, trying to start discussion or scum-hunt)? I have my own thoughts below but would like your taken on this. While I feel like he was misrepresenting what I said (with saying that I was 'suggesting we should No Lynch' when that's not possible and 'you haven't given any ideas on how to communicate with the dead') I can see someone trying to be provocative to get a reaction or move the conversation in a more productive direction so I'm not confident in my read of him. I'm also biased by default so I'm not sure wherever my scum lean on him is due to the "he's pushing me so he must be trying to mislynch me" bias or because he legitimately strawed my points. Leaning towards the latter given the examples above though. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On September 09 2016 07:16 NeverUnlucky wrote: It's a very mild scum tell and always will be. Yes, I used it in my last line... in a different context. The "we" I used referred to you and me, not the town. Nice misrep attempt. Ugh, I know, and I apologize. I won't use meta anymore. :3 In regards to your LW point: you stated that town should use surnames/quotes to refer to X player and then mentioned that scum can manipulate LWs. So you knew that what you were going to say wasn't going to be helpful for town anyways. Why did you feel the need to mention this? What do you think of my first post? How did you think that town had PRs before they were lynched? It's a PRONOUN. Bloody Hell, if you're going to start a tunnel based on this, you're going to be useless. That wasn't a misrep because I was using it to say that your point sucked, not to discredit you. Scum can only manipulate LWs twice. The game is going to go on for more than two nights. There is going to be at least one accurate LW in there, no? Don't care to look. Where did I imply this again? I forget. On September 09 2016 07:19 Vivax wrote: But that's about your first point, not the second one. Which makes it look to me like your second one might as well not be there. Proceeding with the dissection: There's always the chance that the scum can interfere with the message being given. -> yes, but what's the point of saying this. Although they can only rewrite LWs twice, we can't rely on the LWs much -> And yet you suggest a plan that seems to deem them important. but I think it's good to establish a way for the dead townies to communicate with the rest of the thread because I'm not seeing a way that the scum manipulation of the LWs/ votes can be prevented. -> Cause scum can manipulate LW, you want LW to be reliable communication? These two statements don't mesh together. Why? Cause scum can manipulate LW, no LWs are reliable. Main point being: I found your second point there to just be fluff. The point is that we can't trust the messages too much but that it's still a good idea for the dead town to try and communicate with the rest of the thread anyhow. (trying to post correct information > not trying at all) I'm not sure how saying "hey, here are some ways that the town could try to communicate info via their LWs" is a bad thing. I also didn't say "LWs are reliable" and openly said that we shouldn't trust them...which is something that you note in the rest of your post. I'm not seeing how you're concluding half the things that you are from my posts. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On September 09 2016 07:30 NeverUnlucky wrote: Yes, it's NAI in most setups. I just don't believe it can be a town slip in this particular setup. My scum-read on Calix is not a strong one yet. It's mostly a gut read. I want her to respond to my posts and convince me she's town if she is. No, moron. I'm not going to waste my time on 'convincing' you that I'm town. Nothing you said holds any weight. Go figure that I can't get a break from people scum-reading me for the worst reasons. In any case, pretty sure you are town given your fixation on this 'scum tell' of mine. By all means continue to waste time asking 20 questions though until you wise the fuck up. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On September 09 2016 07:36 NeverUnlucky wrote: [quote=Calix]Scum can only manipulate LWs twice. The game is going to go on for more than two nights. There is going to be at least one accurate LW in there, no? Don't care to look. Where did I imply this again? I forget. Stating the obvious. Ugh, you're already pissing me off. Here it is: On September 09 2016 06:45 NeverUnlucky wrote: I'm not sure how games are started here, so I will do some setup speculation. The "Death Whisperer" is a heavy counter to TPRs. + Show Spoiler + Death Whisperer Win condition: Win anytime living mafia members equals or outnumbers living town members. Ghost curse: Once per game at night, you can target one player. If that person is protected by the benevolent ghosts' protection, he will die. If that person is targeted by the spirit's KP, he will protected from it. Death tracker: Spectral (can be used even if dead). If you successfully killed someone with your ghost curse, you will have access to the Benevolent Ghost QT after your death. You won't be able to post in it. If you successfully protected someone with your ghost curse, you will have access to the Vengeful Spirit QT after your death. You won't be able to post in it.] Using a TPR ability unwisely can backfire terribly if countered by the DW. Do you think TPRs should act every night? If we ML today, the Vengeful spirit should not use his vigilante shot today as the DW will 100% target one of the three mafias. He has no reason to target townies as the Benevolent Ghost won't exist by then. Therefore, using the sole vigilante bullet N1 has the most chance of it going to waste. It is preferable to do an alignment check on any player and keep the shot for the following nights where the DW won't necessarily target a mafia. Your thoughts? You implied this in your first post. You said: "Names aren't allowed in Last Wills but if you wanted to reference a player (e.g., say you're a Sheriff-Vig who wanted to say "I checked X/ this player is innocent/ guilty")" [/QUOTE] Ah yes, because the person who tries to meta-read me right off the bat is the person who deserves to be pissed off between the two of us. Yeah no. I still think TPRs should use their actions every night. Agreed that Vig shouldn't shoot N1 - it's a mid-game thing given that Vig cannot shoot if the game hits five players. Pretty sure someone already said that TPR-directing = bad so won't harp on about that. You get a Sheriff-Vig when someone is lynched, yes? They can use their LW to say "I checked X". On N2, the next person to get lynched can say "X is inno/ guilty" (in retrospect, telling people who the Sheriff checked N1 is kind of dumb but that's what I was saying at the time, not implying that town had TPRs before N1) What are you suggesting here? I don't know wherever that's an insult, a compliment or some comment on my alignment. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On September 09 2016 07:48 NeverUnlucky wrote: You do, but they cannot interact with the town anymore. They share a QT, yo. Their LW will be ones they had as Vanilla Townies. Sorry for pissing you off :3 If this is true then most of what I've been saying is inaccurate because I assumed that when someone died they immediately turned into a TPR... ...but where does it say that the VTs don't get access to the QTs before the end of the night in the setup? | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On September 09 2016 07:53 Vivax wrote: For me Calix remains meh. Emotional doesn't mean town. To make it very simple (since the discussion might seem like we're trying to split atoms here), look at this quote, and tell me why it's good that we have a way of communication BECAUSE scum can manipulate. It just doesn't make sense. There is no causality. Whether you have a way of communication or not, it's not going to influence the manipulation. So I concluded that this looks like text put in here for the sake of putting something in there. Since the scum can only manipulate two of the LWs, I was trying to say that having the legit LWs be presented clearly was a good idea. I was trying to think of a way to make LWs useful to the town despite the obvious handicap of "scum can change them" However I've since been convinced that the LWs are largely pointless given that the dead townies won't be much more informed than anyone else, but I figured I might have been onto something at the time. In any case, I won't be talking about that much anymore. (that's not me saying "oh don't bother questioning me about it because I changed my mind" btw. Even if I was being pretty dumb, I can still talk about what I thought at the time) | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On September 09 2016 08:03 NeverUnlucky wrote: You didn't explain your read on him, LMAO. "Obvious town" doesn't convince anybody (Maybe Eggy). Which points do you disagree with? How are you scum-hunting? I don't recall reading any of your posts with a comment as to why X would be scum nor pointing out the fallacies in people's posts. Explain. Can you cut the crap with referring to Eggy every game? Nobody here knows who you're talking about and it's petty. Pointing out fallacies =/= scum-hunting. Going "oh you misrepped me and made an appeal to emotion" isn't the same thing as detailed analysis. Vivax's post that I responded to is a MUCH better example of legit scum-hunting even if he's wrong. Maybe try emulating that instead of going "boom! Found a scum tell, gg no re" I don't agree with Damdred that he's scum-hunting. He claims to be using POE (with town-reads) but that is not the same thing imo. Otherwise not sure what he would be referring to. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On September 09 2016 08:12 NeverUnlucky wrote: ^ This feels somewhat town imo. I think that scum would either keep on saying that they were right or back off earlier when they were called out for it to avoid interactions. I do not like this though: It looks like you pulled a NU if you know what I'm saying. It's cute that you're using a point I once raised against you in a previous game against me, but no dice. Your post that you refer to (where you went out of your way to call yourself a 'noob' and characterise your contributions as holding no weight) is not the same as my post where I specifically stated "you can still question me about X point" This does the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you're claiming I'm trying to do. (avoid accountability for my posts) For anyone reading this, NU and I are referring to a past game here because NU loves his meta. Expect more pointless references, folks. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On September 09 2016 08:17 NeverUnlucky wrote: Fluff. Fluff. Fluff and shade-throw: My attitude in no way suggests that I am certain that I found a scum and that the game is 'geegee no re ez'. btw you said 'geegee' without the e's, get modkilled, nerd. That's what I said. I was calling you out on making posts such as "fluff, misrep" etc because they're stupid, aren't scum-indicative and persuade NOBODY because you don't explain your thought process when you just post the name of the logical fallacy of the week or whatever...and you proceed to do exactly that instead of listening. I'm done talking to you until you pull your head out of your arse. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On September 09 2016 09:24 Tumblewood wrote: there is one thing I have on Shapelog that makes me feel really smart. I think he is town because of his setup spec early game, because it shows that he is genuinely interested and not doing it for town cred because setup spec is generally something people scumread you for. not 100% but I'm sticking with it. other people: vivax is probably town just for tone and care-ness calix looks town and NU looks scum to me. even though their entrances were the same from a surface-level point of view, calix feels more genuine and helpful. Damdred interests me but I do not yet have feelings toward his alignment "Doing X gets you scum-read so anyone who does X is town because scum don't want to risk the negative attention" - Isn't this argument based around WIFOM? I don't know what this site's view towards setup spec is but I consider it NAI. It's commonplace on my home site. I don't disagree with the conclusion but I dislike the reasoning. Your NU scum-read doesn't make sense. Why would the fact that I 'feel more genuine and helpful' have an impact on what NU's alignment is? You just used someone else to give a scum-read on another player. You say our entrances are the same on the 'surface level' so how do they differ underneath that then? So Damdred's a null? Not sure why you included him - why does he interest you? | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On September 09 2016 09:39 Tumblewood wrote: see, the argument looks like wifom, because it is, but scum!shape is better at looking town than town!shape and is unlikely to do setup spec imo re: NU, I implied that NU did not feel genuine. sorry if that was unclear. and the genuineness was what differed, more or less. and ya Damdred interests me because of how he wants to form a town circle (and also his posting style - more on that eventually) already but I have not yet determined what this means about his alignment. WIFOM and meta, two of my favourite things ever. Well I can't comment further on that read since I've only been in one game with Shapelog (which tells me nothing) and I'd rather remain ignorant so that my reads aren't tainted by subjective interpretations of how someone acted in a previous game. Also I hate being meta-read myself. Can you point me to where you felt that NU was insincere? Or explain why him confusing you so much means he's less likely to be scum? I don't relate to your thought process so far. Personally I think trying to force a town circle just creates friction and increases the chance of scum getting into one. I don't think he was doing that though, just said he wanted to lynch outside of his town circle...which is basically going "I will lynch a null/ scum read over a town read" so I don't think there's much to be found there. | ||
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Calix
3379 Posts
On September 09 2016 10:48 Holyflare wrote: I will never in 1000 fiery years vote anyone other than ticktock today. A* post. I especially liked the part where you followed up on this bold declaration with some solid reasoning and a vote. While that gets worked on, I'm finding Tumblewood ignoring the posts where NU and I pointed out some of his odd reasoning (he reads me as more genuine and helpful than NU so NU is scum and I'm town with no chance of TvT/ WvW? wut) to be increasingly conspicuous. I'll see if he responds but I am 100% expecting a followup. I find it hard to understand where Tumblewood is coming from with his posts which makes me wonder if they're written with a different mindset to mine. What makes Ticktock worse than Tumblewood given this? In any case, 3am over here. I'm taking my leave. | ||
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