EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/iS1NH.jpg)
While covering the Auction All-Kill OSL KeSPA preliminaries - myself, kjwcj and MrHoon managed to bump into TheMarine and after introducing ourselves, were able to secure an interview with him. TheMarine is one of, if not, the most respected Starcraft colour commentator in Korea - with a storied past as a first generation professional gamer playing with teams such as GO (now CJ Entus) and KTF MagicNs (now KT Rolster). After retiring as a player in 2006, he quickly transitioned into broadcasting, joining OnGameNet's Proleague team, where he has been a staple in their commentating crew for the past 7 years.
We met up with him a week later at the prestigious Namsan Hyatt hotel on a very hot Korean summers day. Here is the interview that we conducted with him.
Introduction
MrHoon: Let's get started then. So, if I recall correctly, you started as an amateur in 1998?
TheMarine: StarCraft came out in 1998, and I first won a major tournament in 1999. Ever since then, I just continued my path.
MrHoon: There were many games during that time in Korea that were very popular. Is there a reason you took StarCraft over the other games?
TheMarine: Before StarCraft, I had not played any PC games at all. But because so many Koreans said it was the number one game to play I was curious. All my friends were playing it and I thought to myself, "I wonder if it's really fun." If I recall correctly, the game came out around March in Korea and I didn't try it at all until June or July and I loved it. Within a week, I was reading up on build orders and strategies to improve myself at the game. Unlike my friends, I wanted to learn all the depths of the game. I don't think I even did comp-stomps and team games, I just went straight to ladder.
MrHoon: So I guess you are an old school US West player?
TheMarine: If I recall correctly, during that time an Asian server did not exist. Also US West was the first one on the list. But when the Asian server was made, a lot of the US West Koreans migrated there.
MrHoon: Weren’t you also the leader of the famous [NC] clan?
TheMarine: (laughs) It seems like everyone gets this confused. I was never the leader of the [NC] clan, as that was [NC]nO.1 (Yoo Dae-Hyun, now a commentator). However, my ID while on [NC] was [NC]Leader. I know it's confusing, and because of that everybody thought I was the leader of the [NC] clan.
MrHoon: How did you join the [NC] clan?
TheMarine: [NC] was a clan that had the best players at that time. I was close to [NC]nO.1 in real life, so I asked him about joining the clan. At the same time, other players like YellOw and ChoJJa wanted to join as well. Fortunately, I had already won a world tournament by then, making it easier for me at least apply to [NC]. Before had I won that tournament, I was nothing but a no-name amateur. The tournament win helped me more than anything.
MrHoon: Back then, PC bang teams appeared and a lot of minor tournaments turned into larger tournaments with a decent prize pool. Did it occur to you at all that progaming was becoming a bit more serious?
TheMarine: 1999 was the year when I felt that Starcraft was becoming a bit more serious. I was still only in high school so I wasn't mature enough to think through the whole pro-scene thoroughly. I was too young and as a young guy all I knew how to do was enjoy it. Back then, there wasn't a such a thing as having a profession as a progamer, but suddenly amateurs were being called pros and people like SSamJang were getting national recognition and I thought, "wow that's really cool." Then came tournaments with prize pools of $10,000 at least, which was much higher than the average $2,000 prize pools.
MrHoon: During that time, that was a lot of money.
TheMarine: Indeed! I was pretty famous around the Jamsil area, as an amateur of course. Then, I won that tournament and earned $10,000. I was shocked to learn that, "wow I can earn money by playing games."
MrHoon: It was very new to not only Korea but to everyone. I remember when you had to wear the spacemen suits.
TheMarine: (laughs) Those were the days.
MrHoon: Watching it as a kid on Tooniverse - you guys looked so cool. So after winning that tournament, did you officially become a progamer?
TheMarine: We gamers gathered and made a team for ourselves in order to practice with each other and to participate in tournaments. Back in those days, we didn't even have a proper sponsor. We were just going to the tournaments so that we could eat and live. For example, in a month we would go all over the nation... Busan, Bangjoo, Jeonrado...
MrHoon: Wow, you guys you traveled a lot!
TheMarine: Since the first place prize for even small tournaments was $2,000, I went to many of them and got a few first places. As a high school student, it was a lot of money. Then, suddenly, our team got ourselves a sponsor and we signed a contract. After that, companies approached other teams to sponsor them too.
Greatest Ones
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/f5vGB.jpg)
MrHoon: Was G.O. (The Greatest Ones) the first official team?
TheMarine: In the history of esports you can label G.O. as the part of the second generation of teams. The first generation was SG with SSamJang, and the first team I was in was CIMA. We had TheBOy (Guk Ki Bong, now works for Blizzard Korea) and Love (Kim Gap Yong, now a LoL coach). We were a clan team back then, but then it disbanded. After that, I joined the G.O. Team.
MrHoon: Your time at G.O. is considered by many to be your prime, and you were frequently compared to BoxeR. You were famous for your "30,000 Year Leap Frogging technique."
TheMarine: Haha, yes.
MrHoon: I read in an interview once where you said that you hated the nickname, "By the Book Terran." You hated how people associated you with safe and standard plays.
TheMarine: It wasn't that I hated it, but it seemed like I was the 'boring' guy. A player needs to be very active and creative to be enjoyable to watch, and being the standard guy didn't help my cause at all. I had a lot of fans too, so I felt some pressure to provide entertaining games. That's probably why I had a slump as well.
JSy (photographer): You also did builds like seven barracks and two factory against Zerg to mix it up if I recall correctly.
TheMarine: Yes, I did weird builds to show people that I could shake things up too. It was unfortunate because while I could do other builds aside from standard, the image of me being a standard player stuck onto me to the public's eyes and it stressed me out.
MrHoon: Being compared to BoxeR is a tough life
TheMarine: I know, it's like I had no say in the matter (laughs). BoxeR was already a superstar and I wasn't even good enough to be his rival. I consistently got second place, and back then I thought that being second place was not impressive.
JSy: Were you nervous at all when you were a progamer? Going to the broadcast studios to record and all.
TheMarine: Oh yes, very nervous. When I was a progamer, that was one of my negative traits. Also, when I first started casting, being nervous did get in the way a little. But people around me told me that it fits me. I think I can control it enough to be alert.
MrHoon: I bet there are a lot of players like that, they're very skilled but because of being nervous on stage...
TheMarine: Oh yes. For players that are good during broadcast, they need skills and a little bit extra. It's not enough just to be skillful. You know 'cheese' strategies. If you have a weak mindset, you'll be broken by a few cheeses. When you prepare for someone better than you, you prepare a better cheese to beat him. So he loses then he develops stage fright because of that game and become useless on stage. There are a lot of cases like that.
MrHoon: You're very close with the “Perfect Terran”, Seo Ji-hoon (Xellos) and I heard that that you recommended him to be in G.O.
TheMarine: He was so skilled. It wasn't only me, as many other veteran G.O members such as Nal_rA also recommended him to be in GO. The second I saw him play, I was so impressed and I knew he had to go pro. He had so much talent and we said we needed someone like him on our team. Xellos was very famous as an amateur too, and I knew he would surpass most Terrans in the pro-scene.
One weakness Xellos had was that his mindset was very weak. Mechanically and strategically, I think he was on par with NaDa at that time. But the big difference was NaDa had a very strong mindset that complimented his other skills nicely too. If you can win tournaments with only your skills at the game I'm pretty sure Xellos would've won it all. It's a pity his mindset couldn't compliment his skills.
MrHoon: From what I know you taught a lot of things to Xellos.
TheMarine: As a gamer I thought I was good, but there were two players that I thought they were better than me, and they were Xellos and Nada. These two players had the gift and skills, and I could tell that just by watching them play. They were the two players that left the biggest impact for me.
MrHoon: G.O. was a stacked team. A team where many could say had the best roster hands down. You had many star players.
TheMarine: There were so many good players on the old GO team who were not only good at the game but could also maintain good public relations, and I felt they were generally smarter than others. One thing I will say though is that all of the old GO team members are currently doing very well in the pro scene. For example, they are either a commentator or like Xellos, who entered the CJ company. That’s not an easy company to be accepted to. GO members who left progaming are all doing other eSports work or doing something even better. Nal_rA, Rookie, and I are doing commentating work. fOru is a coach. It's quite intriguing and I think it's all thanks to our old coach Coach Cho.
MrHoon: How is Coach Cho is currently doing? A lot of fans overseas are very curious.
TheMarine: Ah, he's doing well. He started a small business for smartphone applications. In fact, he was the one who made the Fomos App on the Fomos store for free. The last time I saw him was couple months ago.
MrHoon: That's very good to hear!
TheMarine: He still loves the esports scene!
MrHoon: Speaking of Coach Cho and Team G.O., there was a dark period for you guys where there were many problems concerning finance and had to...
TheMarine: (smiling) ...get our teammates stolen?
MrHoon: (laughs) Well I don't know the details so I can't say 'stolen.' Most of us thought of it more as a, “they had no choice” situation.
TheMarine: We really had no choice because a player of the same caliber on a different team would be getting better housing and treatment.
MrHoon: Nal_rA, Gorush, and Midas...
TheMarine: Such good players...
MrHoon: Eventually G.O became the sponsorless team. It must've given everybody pressure.
TheMarine: It was very hard on my teammates, yes, but I was the first one who was out of G.O. because KTF bought me out first.
MrHoon: Oh really?
TheMarine: Haha, yes, KTF bought me out. After that Nal_rA left the team, then Gorush, then Midas, and so on. G.O. was in deep trouble but, fortunately, Xellos was such a star player and top Terran. It worked out well in the end for everybody.
KTF MagicNs
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/KQzPR.jpg)
MrHoon: What team do you refer to as your home team if I may ask. Was it KTF? G.O?
TheMarine: I can't really say. But as a progamer, the most meaningful time for me was with KTF. The reason is that when I was judged as having no more potential, I said to myself “I'm not giving up and trying again,” and I was treated really well by KTF. For three years and going to multiple finals stages, it was the most exciting years of my career. I was standing in the middle of the golden age of esports. The SKT/KTF rivalry helped escalate that excitement.
Even when I was in the army. Lots of Korean men have memorable times during their service but my time on KTF was more memorable. I was so happy. It was the most difficult and happiest part of my life.
MrHoon: KTF was really a strong team back then. They always won their 2v2 matches and you had several ace players. Anything was possible for you guys back then. The team had a legendary 22 game winning streak. While there was a painful memory for you at the finals, you must've thought you were invincible during that streak.
TheMarine: I thought we were the best. If you don't believe that you're the best, how can you perform the best? During that time I thought we could be confident in our skills. Meeting SKT in the finals, I think SKT were more professional in their game preparations. They made a profile for each of us, our traits and weaknesses. SKT was really efficient at that. So in the end we lost. Even though we had a 22 win streak, they won in the end so it proved that they were the better team.
Casting
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6mjh4.jpg)
MrHoon: When did you want to become a caster?
TheMarine: For me... when I felt my limits. Originally my goal as a progamer was to be one for at least 10 years and after that to think about what to do afterwards. On the broadcast stage I did a lot of teamplay. By doing so much my individual skills started to decrease. Within the teams there were ranking tournaments, and while I didn't have a bad record, l I focused on teamplay. After doing lots of other things I developed stage fright and couldn't adapt to playing on stage. So in the Dual Tournament, before the Starleague, I would just play up to that and then I finished. Also, I had good offers in my surroundings. My desire to continue as a progamer was getting weaker at that time.
I wasn't really a good talker but I got a few offers. I had an offer from MBCGame and OnGameNet as well. MBCGame's offer was nice as well because they were starting with a small league and building up. It was a great offer. I was a beginner, and they put us on a stage without a guarantee of our skills. OGN offered a huge deal. They gave me an exceptional offer to put me straight into Proleague and they said that would I treat me better than when I was a progamer. To me, it didn't matter whether or not they kept that promise because I was really thankful to work there with their generous offer.
MrHoon: When you became a caster, many people around you must've been envious.
TheMarine: I hear that a lot. The job that progamers want to do the most is to become a commentator. However, while there are many who want to do it, there are only a few spots. So even if you wanted to do it, you couldn't.
MrHoon: Especially after MBCGame shutdown.
TheMarine: Yes, and even more so because of that. If MBCGame was still here there could've been many more spots. But it's so limited right now. My juniors say sometimes that they're envious of me.
MrHoon: I see on FOMOS that you're always voted the most popular commentator. Right after you is Lee Seung Won. I see you took 60% of the votes.
TheMarine: It's all similar.
MrHoon: Your commentating was so impressive, almost everything you said appeared on screen. Because you've been a progamer, the only thing you're good at is gaming. There's something about people who are good at only one thing. In your case you did everything well. Your debut as a commentator was shocking back then.
TheMarine: As a first generation progamer, I think about these things: whenever I do an interview, don't be foolish; I don't want to be perceived as a stupid person.
I do lectures in front of progamers as well. You can say it's Korean-style moral training, communicating with the players like that. When the teams do a team workshop they call me often. I give the players words of encouragement, because I've been through what they're going through.
MrHoon: When you first started commentating, did you ever have thoughts of returning as a progamer?
TheMarine: No, I did not.
MrHoon: Oh, really?
TheMarine: The reason why was because in that time I was too busy. I started commentating a few days after I stopped being a progamer. There was no time for leisure. I was constantly busy. We broadcast every day so I've never had a vacation day. So, I never had thoughts of returning. I wasn't lonely and I liked my lifestyle. I am happy.
MrHoon: That's great to hear.
MrHoon: In your thoughts, as a caster what area do you excel in?
TheMarine: It's hard to say, but I'm very good at researching the internal workings of the game. I think it's boring to keep being right. I think it's important to be entertaining while being right at the same time. Creating a heavy atmosphere, when it's not needed having a light atmosphere, showing the game's depth. to control all that. As I get older I think I'm good at those things. In the past, my range of understanding and my thought processes were limited, but now I think I'm skillful at those. I'm confident at watching the game.
MrHoon: In Korea you have two commentators and one caster. Outside of Korea there's usually only two casters and some people say that the casting feels very dry. I think English is sort of boring in tone, very fixed.
TheMarine: I've heard a lot. When I watch, I just watch. I don't know what language it is in but there are entertaining people out there too. There are cases where they're very quiet and just converse. They have a set tone.
MrHoon: I think the reason why some foreign fans like Korean casting is that you can feel lots of energy. 'Ah playgu playguuu', casting like that while losing your voice, we think it's awesome.
TheMarine: For us that's how we've been casting. We try to put our emotions into it. You can't force yourself to be emotionally attached to the game. Preparing in advance, cooperating with your team and having the same train of thought is the best way to communicate with the viewers. It's the only way for me, and the way I was taught. That kind of atmosphere is different from other countries.
MrHoon: Isn’t it bit worrisome that you could damage your voice like that, though?
TheMarine: Delivering the game's flow perfectly is a requirement for us, if we can't do that we get a lot of criticism. If we can't do that while creating a dramatic show, the Korean audience will just think of the game as only 'just' a game. We don't like that. Our goals for casting are higher than that. We feel that we have a big responsibility to take it beyond what a sport can be, to try to give meaning to the game, to show how this player reached this conclusion, to help the viewers feel the drama inside the game, and to show why the game is entertaining.
We have detailed records of everything we've done for the past ten years. We have record writers as well. They know everything. They know what kind of winning streak a player had years ago. For example, Lee Jae Dong that had a 17 game winning streak versus Protoss. You have to know everything. Things like if Jaedong wins three more games, it will break some record. Or that this is a player that could break Jaedong's record. We look at it like that because it's not entertaining if we just look at who's good and bad. If we cast like that the game becomes stale. We give meaning to the match and a reason to cheer on the player to win. While we cast we do our utmost best. Everybody. One person won't just coast it out because the competition is so fierce.
We have to be good at the game as well, or we won't get recognized as good casters.
MrHoon: Which co-caster are you most comfortable with?
TheMarine: I've been doing this a long time. I've been with the same casters forever. There is no personal preference now. They're all different. Each of us adapt to each other's traits so there isn't any good or bad chemistry. We have a female caster (Jung Sorim), Jeon Yong Jun, Sung Seung Hun, and Kim Chul Min. They each have their own color, and if they shared a similar style it wouldn't work. The casting has to taste different.
But Jeon Yong Jun did teach us the most. He is probably the definition of energy. I just follow him, if we have finals together. After a finals are over, I'm depleted of all strength. After we go out to eat, on the day after it's hard to wake up from bed.
MrHoon: When you cast everything is live. It must've been tough at first since when you were a progamer all you had to do was play.
TheMarine: In that area, I think I'm gifted as well. I didn't really care if it was live or not. Because next to me I had great seniors and people who've been broadcasting for a long time, instead of worrying about being live I worried that I couldn't keep up with the rest. It wasn't a big problem, since everyone around me were veterans of their work. Even if they got a new rookie like me, they could carry me fine. They know how to teach someone well. It was focused on me, if I made a mistake they would laugh, if I got it right would give me a compliment so I got absorbed into the atmosphere, not that I was the one who did well. It was so fun.
Transition to Starcraft II
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/RMqfi.jpg)
MrHoon: When you finished your service you went straight into casting SC2 at the World Cyber Games. You probably didn't have much time to prepare.
TheMarine: In the two years I was in the army, I couldn't play or view any games. Both Brood War and Wings of Liberty. I couldn't see anything because I was a regular combat troop, a regular infantryman in a squad. So I didn't have any time for a computer, and I was too busy. Not an environment to keep up with things.
MrHoon: You came back in such a short time?
TheMarine: There's no other choice. I wasn't satisfied with my casting at the start. But with the time I was given, I did everything I could and I prepared the best I could. I didn't hear anything bad from people, but still I felt sad. Still, it was fun during WCG and everything.
MrHoon: You had to learn SC2 in a short period of time. How did you learn? Did you just continuously game or watch GSL?
TheMarine: Watching GSL was a requirement, I saw all the games. I watched the qualifiers, the side programs like Ready Action, and even the SC2 tutoring programs by Superstar (Shin Jung Min) because I had to learn quickly. I went to the oGs team house three times. I couldn't learn a lot from that though. Didn't have too much time to communicate with the players. A few words. MC (Jang Min Chul) taught me the basics of Protoss.
I learned some stuff about the big picture so I was thankful to them. Majority of the prep was just gaming alone. While playing the game, my rank kept rising. The problem is the short prep time. Having points is not knowing the depth of the game. My game skills improved fast, but I didn't have a deep understanding of the game when I casted WCG. Watching the GSL vods the most. That was the reason why I went into Teamliquid so much. Bigger than GSL, I got more helpful material from Teamliquid.
The reason was, I had to study why the players using this build in a certain way. GSL needs to show both sides of the battle to learn. But a first person view, I had enough skills to analyze why this player is doing this build. Why this certain build. I keep watching. Because I need understanding. It is the same now, from last Summer till now I've always went on TL, even now.
MrHoon: A lot of foreigners come to Korea and see Korean teams practice. They take that back with them trying to compete better, what do you feel about that?
TheMarine: That's fascinating. My first thought of foreign players was that they were playing to enjoy the game. I don't think that's bad, since it's their style. There's no reason to be like us. If you look at it from a Brood War perspective, I feel that the passionate foreigners that came over to [Korean] teams but didn't have the best endings were the most admirable. The reason is that they come over to a tough and new environment, a different culture, in order to try to win over here. It was tough for them to beat us, after ElkY.
MrHoon: Almost impossible right.
TheMarine: I think up to Elky they did well. Grrrr... was the best when he came over. I thought foreigners wouldn't do well in SC2 as well. At first I still had the stereotype that Korea was the best. But as time went by watching HuK play I thought, “wow foreigners can play the game like us too in RTS.” Personally, I love Thorzain. Since he's Terran, it seemed like there weren't too many foreigner Terrans. People say Demuslim was really good and watched him a bit. From the Terrans I think Thorzain is the best. When he beat Polt at Dreamhack, I was impressed.
MrHoon: What do you think about how some players stream games online?
TheMarine: For Koreans if they show their habits and strategies, I believe it's bad for the player in the long run. For example, if Jaedong streams his games. Over a long time you can see his habits. I think it reduces the player's career life. He has to hide his strategies too.
MrHoon: So there was the last Brood War OSL, were you saddened?
TheMarine: Very much. I thought this would be absorbed into our culture completely. When you were bored and wanted to do something, I hoped it would be part of our culture to want and play it. I was so sad and disappointed. If it's unavoidable, I thought to myself don't try to solve a problem that can't be solved. Right now I think it fits this situation. I believe I need to be a source of positive energy for the people around me. It's a terrible shame for BW. If it became a better environment for other countries outside of Korea to enjoy BW. You're really good even if you climb up the ladders on Battlenet by yourself. Only if there was a better environment to support these players. It could've been a global game. It is one of the best in the history of e-sports, it's such a shame that it couldn't spread out. Even more thinking about it now.
MrHoon: There were many talented foreigners too.
TheMarine: Outside us the rest of the people stopped playing it. To break into our player base just with passion alone, it was too tough.
Final Words
MrHoon: Thank you for speaking to us for such a long time. Do you have any final words to say to the foreigners?
TheMarine: It was awesome to get such an opportunity to have an interview with a website that I go to every day. I agreed immediately when I got the offer. I hope TL grows along with the growth of SC2. TL is one of those sites that helps me enjoy SC2. If I spoke better English, I could be casting.
MrHoon: Do you have a twitter?
TheMarine: It is @TheMarine82.
MrHoon: Thank you so much for your time.
MrHoon: Interviewer, Transcriber
JSy: Photographer, Transcriber
Kimoleon: Transcriber
kjwcj, GTR: Questions
JSy: Photographer, Transcriber
Kimoleon: Transcriber
kjwcj, GTR: Questions
