• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 05:19
CET 11:19
KST 19:19
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !9Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15
StarCraft 2
General
Micro Lags When Playing SC2? ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! When will we find out if there are more tournament Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $100 Prize Pool - Winter Warp Gate Masters Showdow $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1 RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14!
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress
Brood War
General
Klaucher discontinued / in-game color settings Anyone remember me from 2000s Bnet EAST server? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle
Tourneys
[BSL21] LB QuarterFinals - Sunday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] WB SEMIFINALS - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum PC Games Sales Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
The (Hidden) Drug Problem in…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1631 users

Roulette Mini Mafia

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 Next All
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
May 27 2013 14:15 GMT
#4
lol /in

already got a decent idea for how to play this
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-27 14:43:07
May 27 2013 14:42 GMT
#12
btw 2 protective roles + Town roleblocker could be really brutal for Scum to deal with. Outside of their KP the Rolecop role doesn't really help them here even with the early result reveal.

Maybe RNG every role right after the lynch, and allow Role Cop to send in his/her action during the day so they get result at the start of Night? Would still make it tough to deal with that Town setup but it's something.

random nature of 1 Scum being godfathered vs competent Alignment Cops is also tough

Either way I'm down for this just because it is interesting

On May 27 2013 23:36 kushm4sta wrote:
everyone will claim their role though because there's no reason for town not to


Same thing I was thinking.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
May 27 2013 14:47 GMT
#14
Well after modding Carnival Cruise I'm sure you know why I don't trust people to send in Night Actions

Looks Town favored but I guess Scum will have to work a bit harder with claims and day play to avoid the random worst case scenario. Ah well lets get this show on the road!
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-27 15:11:00
May 27 2013 15:08 GMT
#19
On May 27 2013 23:56 prplhz wrote:
can't eduardo just claim something that one of his teammates got?


yes, but it isn't about 1 night of claims itself. Since the roles are always "live" the Town can collectively vote on someone to be investigated in the case of an Alignment Cop.

The Town will all claim the next day with result of their actions. Say a NK is missing - the doctor and Vet don't care about not being informed. They just speak up on what happened. In the Doc's case it most likely confirms a Town player (barring Scum taking a chance to shoot one of their own members). Since the roles get randomized again next night they don't need to fear dying and depriving the Town of a Power Role

Town does this at the start of every day. Even with Scum getting the power roles the Town isn't concerned with their claims. All they need is a decent pool of suspects before Scum KP takes out the thinkers and investigate down the list and take chances with the RNG due to higher numbers.

ETA: Just to be thorough that "live" means barring getting hit by Scum KP. There are other interesting scenarios that exist but I'd rather not get into all that theorycrafting. This is going to be fun either way.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
May 27 2013 16:26 GMT
#31
this game has the potential for so much rage
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
May 27 2013 22:38 GMT
#55
On May 28 2013 05:16 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2013 01:14 Dandel Ion wrote:
If it's easier to understand, just think of the Nbobo as an instant Rolecop that only gets "power" or "no power" back, not the actual roles.
I thought that was apparant.


If you really want you could probably use it during the day too, i don't think I've explicitly forbidden it. It's just way useless because nobody has powers during the day.


And he's called what he's called because I'm terrible at making up names.

Why doesn't Nbobo get the actual role? That just makes the role rather useless. Scum probably doesn't want to shoot the roleblocker or the godfather. They DEFINITELY don't want to shoot the veteran. Having Nbobo reveal roles seems like a necessity for this to be useful.


this actually is part of the reason it is Town favored. Scum can't risk losing the roleblocker or miller/gf roles . But we'll see when the game starts.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
May 28 2013 01:45 GMT
#62
Dandel I think lynching to remove roles from the pool would make it a bit more neutral. Scum can't counterclaim in this setup. The RNG has a lot of power in who wins and loses, and it's mostly in Town's favor.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
May 28 2013 02:06 GMT
#64
If Scum can't counterclaim a role then how do they get rid of it without shooting? All claims can be taken at face value during the day since the setup is open. Add in 2 roles that Scum don't want to lose and they have less options to advance their win condition than Town.

Scum will rely on the RNG much more heavily than Town who can all keep claiming every day. If Scum KP drops to 1 Town collectively agree that every night the roleblocker and the Cop claim and they decide who to investigate.

How does Scum deal with this potential problem?
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-28 02:47:13
May 28 2013 02:39 GMT
#66
Yes that's the thing - there are no counter claims. Scum can't CC in the setup because the roles won't be taken from the pool. Scum lose a powerful option to stopping the Town here. Every claim is taken at face value now because the Town does not care if it is Scum making it - the role still lives on.

If roles can be lynched Scum at least have the option of counter claiming Cops or Doctors. The game can hit "follow the cop" scenario once Scum KP = 1. Without 5 or more Scum that isn't a far-fetched scenario.

ETA: Game breaking scenarios:

Once Scum KP hits 1 the Cop claims. Medic protects him. Roleblocker claims.

A.) The Scum team can't hit the cop so they are left with looking for the doctor. Since the roles are random every night they have to get lucky and hope they get doctor themselves. There are no good power role hunting heuristics available since who gets the doctor role switches all the time. Scum clearly don't want to kill the roleblocker with only 1 KP as they lose the potential to stop a claimed Cop. They are at the mercy of the RNG heavily.

Every day the Town tells the Doctor to claim. If the Doctor does not claim they know one of the people not claiming was Scum. This is the only option they have to deal with the Cop - pure RNG of getting the role. Otherwise the cop is unstoppable.

B.) With the roleblocker claiming they can choose to RB anyone but the Cop. A roleblocked Cop = roleblocker is Scum. So that option is out of play for them. Scum would need to get roleblocker, hit the medic and shoot the cop most likely through random investigation with their RoleCop. Once again they are at the mercy of the RNG.

No matter what path it takes the Town can ignore the RNG and have everyone claim as it is the most ProTown thing to do. The Scum team's options are limited. Without help from the RNG its a game of numbers.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
June 04 2013 01:48 GMT
#151
Dandel said he changed Scum KP so the plan is a bit harder to cheese with but the beginning stages are still doable. We should still claim after night is over and report results.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
June 04 2013 02:02 GMT
#160
On June 04 2013 10:56 Oatsmaster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 04 2013 10:55 Stutters695 wrote:
Well it's obviously a secondary strategy behind just catching scum but I don't see any reason not to report after each night.


How does it help town.


read the OP? The powers get returned to the pool the next day.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
June 04 2013 02:11 GMT
#167
On June 04 2013 11:04 Oatsmaster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 04 2013 11:02 Ace wrote:
On June 04 2013 10:56 Oatsmaster wrote:
On June 04 2013 10:55 Stutters695 wrote:
Well it's obviously a secondary strategy behind just catching scum but I don't see any reason not to report after each night.


How does it help town.


read the OP? The powers get returned to the pool the next day.


Why doesnt the cop just claim???
Why all the roles????
Why are you not answering my question


If Night KP is stopped we'd want the medic claim yo nearly confirm the person as Town. Likewise with a roleblocker. The original plan was based on Scum with 1 KP but with it easier for them to maintain 2 it's a bit harder. Either way there is no downside to claiming the role and who we targeted in the night.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
June 04 2013 02:16 GMT
#169
On June 04 2013 11:09 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2013 11:39 Ace wrote:
Yes that's the thing - there are no counter claims. Scum can't CC in the setup because the roles won't be taken from the pool. Scum lose a powerful option to stopping the Town here. Every claim is taken at face value now because the Town does not care if it is Scum making it - the role still lives on.

If roles can be lynched Scum at least have the option of counter claiming Cops or Doctors. The game can hit "follow the cop" scenario once Scum KP = 1. Without 5 or more Scum that isn't a far-fetched scenario.

ETA: Game breaking scenarios:

Once Scum KP hits 1 the Cop claims. Medic protects him. Roleblocker claims.

A.) The Scum team can't hit the cop so they are left with looking for the doctor. Since the roles are random every night they have to get lucky and hope they get doctor themselves. There are no good power role hunting heuristics available since who gets the doctor role switches all the time. Scum clearly don't want to kill the roleblocker with only 1 KP as they lose the potential to stop a claimed Cop. They are at the mercy of the RNG heavily.

Every day the Town tells the Doctor to claim. If the Doctor does not claim they know one of the people not claiming was Scum. This is the only option they have to deal with the Cop - pure RNG of getting the role. Otherwise the cop is unstoppable.

B.) With the roleblocker claiming they can choose to RB anyone but the Cop. A roleblocked Cop = roleblocker is Scum. So that option is out of play for them. Scum would need to get roleblocker, hit the medic and shoot the cop most likely through random investigation with their RoleCop. Once again they are at the mercy of the RNG.

No matter what path it takes the Town can ignore the RNG and have everyone claim as it is the most ProTown thing to do. The Scum team's options are limited. Without help from the RNG its a game of numbers.


So what happens in scenario A when the doctor doesn't claim? If everyone plays innocent we have a dead cop and still hidden mafia. Same in B, if mafia RB'd the cop.

I.E. we know there's a scum holding the role but we don't know who is holding it and is therefore scum, hence it doesn't break the game.



It wouldn't kill us outright but it would be an anti-town move not to do so. Especially if a hit is stopped. If no one claims we'll just take the actual claimers as more likely Town than not. But once again it would be really stupid of us not to claim.

If Scum RB cop same thing - we just have a narrower pool of suspects to look at. We'll take that small win in a random bad scenario happening every time.



Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
June 04 2013 02:17 GMT
#170
On June 04 2013 11:13 Oatsmaster wrote:
Ok sounds good.

Ace whose scum?


Don't know yet
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
June 04 2013 02:29 GMT
#172
we could randomly start voting people off and see who goes apeshit
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
June 04 2013 02:42 GMT
#175
On June 04 2013 11:30 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 04 2013 11:16 Ace wrote:
On June 04 2013 11:09 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
On May 28 2013 11:39 Ace wrote:
Yes that's the thing - there are no counter claims. Scum can't CC in the setup because the roles won't be taken from the pool. Scum lose a powerful option to stopping the Town here. Every claim is taken at face value now because the Town does not care if it is Scum making it - the role still lives on.

If roles can be lynched Scum at least have the option of counter claiming Cops or Doctors. The game can hit "follow the cop" scenario once Scum KP = 1. Without 5 or more Scum that isn't a far-fetched scenario.

ETA: Game breaking scenarios:

Once Scum KP hits 1 the Cop claims. Medic protects him. Roleblocker claims.

A.) The Scum team can't hit the cop so they are left with looking for the doctor. Since the roles are random every night they have to get lucky and hope they get doctor themselves. There are no good power role hunting heuristics available since who gets the doctor role switches all the time. Scum clearly don't want to kill the roleblocker with only 1 KP as they lose the potential to stop a claimed Cop. They are at the mercy of the RNG heavily.

Every day the Town tells the Doctor to claim. If the Doctor does not claim they know one of the people not claiming was Scum. This is the only option they have to deal with the Cop - pure RNG of getting the role. Otherwise the cop is unstoppable.

B.) With the roleblocker claiming they can choose to RB anyone but the Cop. A roleblocked Cop = roleblocker is Scum. So that option is out of play for them. Scum would need to get roleblocker, hit the medic and shoot the cop most likely through random investigation with their RoleCop. Once again they are at the mercy of the RNG.

No matter what path it takes the Town can ignore the RNG and have everyone claim as it is the most ProTown thing to do. The Scum team's options are limited. Without help from the RNG its a game of numbers.


So what happens in scenario A when the doctor doesn't claim? If everyone plays innocent we have a dead cop and still hidden mafia. Same in B, if mafia RB'd the cop.

I.E. we know there's a scum holding the role but we don't know who is holding it and is therefore scum, hence it doesn't break the game.



It wouldn't kill us outright but it would be an anti-town move not to do so. Especially if a hit is stopped. If no one claims we'll just take the actual claimers as more likely Town than not. But once again it would be really stupid of us not to claim.

If Scum RB cop same thing - we just have a narrower pool of suspects to look at. We'll take that small win in a random bad scenario happening every time.



But it wouldn't be gamebreaking like you said it would be. Hypothetically if I'm scum and me or my other scum (since 2 scum = 1 KP) roll the Doctor, we can shoot the Cop, and if we play as townily as possible we can claim either of the other roles later on and play along with town plan. Assuming we can survive the day we shoot the cop, we simply blend in afterwards and win by pure attrition.

I agree that claiming does help town, but scum can still pull the situation to their advantage and win so it helps them a bit too.

Guess it all comes down to the RNG after all. Greater probability of townies getting X role, so I guess it does benefit town after all.


Once Scum KP dropped to 1 = Cop can claim at night, roleblocker claims at night. If RB doesn't claim we know he is Scum. Match that up with previous innocent investigations = Scum have limited moves. They can't counterclaim anything either. So it becomes a game of numbers which the Town will win.

IF the Scum roll the doctor it isn't as bad as you think. We'd still know where they are. That's why I said for the Scum to succeed it would take the RNG to make them lucky whereas the Town can safely ignore it. That's how it was game breaking.

Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
June 04 2013 15:15 GMT
#207
##vote WaveofShadow
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
June 04 2013 15:28 GMT
#210
not yet. Game seems so blase' right now
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
June 04 2013 16:51 GMT
#218
Every claim is going to be taken at face value anyway so there won't be anything to base off reactions.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
June 04 2013 16:56 GMT
#220
oh, well of course

I was thinking someone would be like "that claim is bullshit!" then we have to force people to read the OP. Again.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
1 2 3 4 5 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Sparkling Tuna Cup
10:00
Weekly #116
CranKy Ducklings77
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 75
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 3681
Rain 2295
Calm 695
GuemChi 688
Stork 557
Horang2 478
Shuttle 436
Sharp 320
Soma 315
Rush 276
[ Show more ]
hero 227
Dewaltoss 126
Killer 87
Last 67
Mong 62
NaDa 45
EffOrt 38
Light 33
Movie 22
Terrorterran 22
GoRush 14
SilentControl 7
zelot 4
Britney 0
Dota 2
XcaliburYe565
NeuroSwarm66
League of Legends
JimRising 446
Counter-Strike
oskar149
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor268
Other Games
Fuzer 256
Mew2King77
febbydoto10
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH338
• LUISG 30
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV897
• lizZardDota298
League of Legends
• Jankos1620
• Stunt876
Upcoming Events
WardiTV 2025
41m
Reynor vs Solar
Clem vs MaxPax
Classic vs SHIN
Ladder Legends
6h 41m
BSL 21
9h 41m
StRyKeR vs TBD
Bonyth vs TBD
Replay Cast
22h 41m
Wardi Open
1d 1h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 6h
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
ByuN vs Solar
Clem vs Classic
Cure vs herO
Reynor vs MaxPax
Replay Cast
5 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Offline Finals
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 1
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.