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Boardwalk Empire Mafia: Pick Your Power

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
March 19 2013 03:35 GMT
#6
/in
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
March 19 2013 17:04 GMT
#11
There are also a bunch of roles that stop lynch KP, so don't forget to factor that in.

Question: does the bodyguard prevent lynches as well as other KP?
Do the rockstar's bodyguards work like the bodyguard in this game (he can't die until they do) or do they work like a normal bodyguard (they die instead of him)
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-23 21:16:20
March 23 2013 21:07 GMT
#37
nonono i want to be inventor

can the inventor name his invention anything he wants or does the name have to be related to what the item does?
can the inventor give himself an invention?
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
March 23 2013 21:22 GMT
#41
I should invent the "I GAVE GONZAW A PUBLIC SELF-DT CHECK LYNCH HIM IF HE DOESNT USE IT"
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
April 03 2013 04:26 GMT
#96
NO GONZAW I WILL BE INVENTOR
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
April 03 2013 13:49 GMT
#103
On April 03 2013 21:00 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 03 2013 18:42 Mocsta wrote:
On April 03 2013 18:33 Oatsmaster wrote:
On April 03 2013 13:53 Mocsta wrote:
On April 03 2013 13:35 Oatsmaster wrote:
/in

Not you!!

Im trying to reduce the spam OK!


I honestly dont spam.

None of my filters go over 15 pages IIRC.

Sigh this is Tue shit I'm talking about lol

U never get what I mean and we end up starting shit feasts.

I give up lol


Disgusting.


BigDong Studios
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
April 04 2013 03:39 GMT
#143
Hhhhhhokay.

Ima make a bad case at some point during day 1. Just wanted to put tha out there. It will almost certainly be serious tho.
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
April 04 2013 10:33 GMT
#198
Afaik pyp games are often determined by "this bullshit". The picking phase strategy is a big part of the game.

And I sort of agree with denying scum roles, but we should limit it to one or maybe two roles, because if we have strong consensus townies early in the order then giving them actual good roles could be very powerful.

Also oats the draft order is public knowledge.
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
April 04 2013 20:34 GMT
#480
On April 04 2013 22:47 Oatsmaster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2013 22:46 Restraining Order wrote:
On April 04 2013 22:44 Oatsmaster wrote:
On April 04 2013 22:41 Restraining Order wrote:
On April 04 2013 22:39 Oatsmaster wrote:
On April 04 2013 22:36 Restraining Order wrote:
On April 04 2013 22:35 Caller wrote:
oim tellin ya gits just do wot i say. any mo discussin' of deez bad scummy planz iz gonna be a big' ol scum flag fo me. so if you don' wanna incur da wrath of khaller i sugest ya gitz find somethin' else to dizcus. in meantime, just folo mah straterjee, oite?

You mean, as opposed to claiming, you want people to claim. After you said claiming is nonsense and doesn't work.


New rule, whoever tries to get someone lynched of a joke is scum.

RO is scum.

Am I mafia independently of the first sentence, or did I already try to get someone lynched without myself noticing?


Pointing out contradictions is pointing out that the dude is lying and therefore scum. So yeah.

Also WHO ARE YOU

If I wanted to point out a person is mafia, I would have pointed out a person is mafia. However, I did no such thing.


pshhhh

words.

Intention is far more important than mere WORDS.
Why did you phrase that 'question' to Caller in a way to appear like you are discrediting him?

it's not the facts that matter, it's the meaning behind the facts.
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
April 04 2013 20:44 GMT
#481
On April 05 2013 02:53 Caller wrote:
wait how does vivax know there are five mafia

hahaha
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
April 04 2013 20:46 GMT
#482
this whole discussion is stupid until we get the drafting list btw
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
April 05 2013 22:27 GMT
#847
So I guess I should assume that someone higher than me in the draft order is taking inventor ...
I know I'm decently high but I think Ryan or someone said they were going for it

I'll just have to share some of my super awesome townie invention ideas
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
April 06 2013 21:07 GMT
#1120
Lol when did I consider the number picking strategy to be very important

Afaik i haven't posted anything of substance since the game started, but I'm a little confused about what you meant by "concerned about roles" when the game started?
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
April 06 2013 21:09 GMT
#1121
On other news shelvocke is scum?

How has VE been refusing to play? A vote on ve at this point needs way more justification than the sentence he posted.
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
April 07 2013 19:30 GMT
#1378
hey guys im grading problem sets right now but i took some time off to read the thread (lol 250 new posts) and heres what i got

gonzaws artanis case:
- accurately attacks his bad case on geript
- accurately attacks artanis for "out of place complaints about the town/thread", something that seems like a decent scumhunting heuristic but i hadn't really thought about before
- "other people are ignoring him" is a bad point, there hasn't been much reason to focus on him until now
- "fake aggression" really is more of a meta point, i would need to see examples of previous cases


i really don't like oatsmaster's post (18223749), it's pretty terribad. if artanis is scum i could see oats being scum too. or even if artanis isn't scum.

i like how gonzaw is actually trying to get people to pay attention to his big post#3000 case



in here is my answer to the case on me

obviousone in his post 18223896 makes the correct distinction, what i meant when i said "picking phase strategy" was the actual role picking, all the number picking strategy was stupid. basically, the only reason the attacks on me make sense is because i said that thing about the picking phase strategy being important, and then wasn't around to actually talk about or make plans during the actual picking phase. Well, the reason i wasn't around is that i wasn't around. i have at least three other time-occuping activities (girlfriend-having, apartment-hunting, and homework-doing) that are more important to me than mafia and i was doing those things friday and saturday.

now, that angle of attack is legitimate. it's incorrect because just being afk for a few days doesn't make me mafia. but it's legitimate.

the people who are attacking me for being off my meta are just ridiculous and/or lazy. if you actually want to look into my town meta, you need to look further back than just one game. criticizing bad posts is something i quite enjoy, and if you think me doing it makes me scum then i lol. lurking on occasion is also something i do, and if you think that makes me scum then i also lol.


post 18223971 geript votes for ryan for what appears to be no reason at all, weird because i remember seeing some townie stuff from geript earlier in the game. but this post is, what, an association case between ryan and meapak, without actually saying why he things meapak is scum? and also the fact that ryan doesn't comment on gonzaws artanis case? hmmmmmm, what is geript's comment on that case?

oatsmaster wants to lynch vivax why?

artanis's response to the gonzaw case - unconvincing but not obviously wrong, not sure here.

vivax: "anyone else finding s & b scummy" lol

oh my draft numbers were [4][2]

visceraeyes 18227911 what a terrible post
deconduo had just made a case on me and was following it up with a vote
completely different than what vivax did
visceraeyes Y U NO PAY ATTENTION

gonzaw says vig shot me VIGS DONT SHOOT ME I WILL DO GOOD THINGS FOR TOWN!!!!!!!!
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
April 07 2013 19:37 GMT
#1379
okay hey austin so i still think that post where shelvocke votes for VE is like super insufficient, apparently his case was "VE is usually rash with KP but he's telling people to be rash with KP therefore he must be scum"?

he hasn't said much about much else except for a town read on ryan that doesn't make much sense but that's fine

hmmmmm, how about this as a point: he's been around a decent amount and posted a decent amount, but his posting has been very narrowly focused and he hasn't said anything about anything except for his current "focus" - first his focus was "make a case on VE" for several posts, and then he changed over and his next several posts were focused on "have a town read on ryan" - seems kind of like a scum who is very carefully parceling out his "positions" and making sure to milk each of them for posts and attention without actually doing very much, or as someone said in red mini mafia, like he's scum trying to play a "clean" game?

idk, something still feels weird about him to me
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
April 07 2013 19:39 GMT
#1380
On April 08 2013 03:43 Vivax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2013 02:45 deconduo wrote:
Seeing as you are having trouble with this Vivax:

-I think X is scummy
-Y votes for X

You seem to think that means I should assume Y is town. This obviously completely wrong. There is nothing stopping Y being scum and X being town.


Your own read should be stopping X from being town from your perspective. But you still mentioned it, and that's what I'm holding against you currently. Attacking people for jumping on a bandwagon against your scumread in that way doesn't seem to be one of the objectives you would have if you had S & B really as scum, cause you mentioned an argument for my play being potentially scummy.
An argument that should only concern you if I were joining a bandwagon against someone you don't think to be scum, and not against a scumbuddy.

Should I ever see more reasons to think you're scum, I'll bring this up again cause it's a valid point in my opinion. But for now, I'm not expecting you to reply to this, cause you won't be able to dissuade me from this argument.



T_T vivax

decon isn't trying to "push a lynch" on me

he's trying to determine my alignment

and simultaneously trying to determine your alignment

you need to get out of your "everyone has to push their lynch all the time" mentality, it's only important to fixedly push a lynch like that if you have a really strong scum read or if it's getting towards the end of the day and no one or the wrong person is getting lynched.
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
April 07 2013 19:48 GMT
#1384
On April 08 2013 04:41 gonzaw wrote:
People HAVE been talking about Shevlocke. Meapak, you, and some others, ever since D1 started.

Scum can "push" any pro-town setup plan they want if they know it will never be implemented. It's also about roles so if implementing that plan gives them enormous town cred why not do it?
He didn't push it hard either so that's moot, he just proposed it, and mentioned it in passing in those "fluffy posts" here and there.

I won't really comment on Artanis "backing off". It did feel a little off to me if he was scum, but I can't take that as sole evidence he's town or some shit.
In MTG 2 Aperture did some stuff that made me back off my scum read on him (there was some stuff that made me and Prome go "Yeah this guy town", like him PMing us out of the game to tell us one of our jokes was funny or something like that)
Scum are totally able to do stuff that makes it feel "off" they are scum.
Reading his whole play though, it makes me think I should ignore that.

I don't mind shevlocke being a lynch candidate or being discussed (hopefully he shows up and does something as well), but I have no reason to lynch him over Artanis today.

I also wish someone vigs snoman and/or S&B tonight. This shit is getting ridiculous in terms of activity/caring about the game.
I'd prefer sno man dying before S&B though, for reasons previously stated.

I also want to know what Obvious concluded about Artanis when he checked his game history. He hasn't concluded anything yet



gonzaw did you read all that stuff i posted?

is there any reason you think i should be vigshot other than that i haven't been posting very much? Do you think that makes me scum or do you just want vigs to shoot lurkers?
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
April 07 2013 19:52 GMT
#1386
anyway before i go back to grading problem sets let me make my positions clear:

at the moment, i am willing to lynch shelvok because his filter reads to me like he's being very "on track" but his justifications for those things are super insufficient.
i am also willing to lynch artanis because gonzaws case seems good and artanis's response doesn't convince me he's town
out of other people who have votes at the moment, i won't support killing palmar or keirathi or ryan.
i would think about killing VE because of how bad his vote on deconduo is but it would take some persuading for me to do that.
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
April 08 2013 01:30 GMT
#1494
On April 08 2013 09:46 Sharrant wrote:
Well, I can't think of anyone who commented on my Keirathi case, but here's an update for no one.

+ Show Spoiler +

He's off my scum list after these posts. They look much more like his town games. In his scum games he's more political in his posts. In his two scum games he's had disagreements but always contested things conservatively, compared to his town games like Red where he called bullshit twenty or so times on the first day.
On April 07 2013 14:57 Keirathi wrote:
EBWOP:

Oh, what the fuck.

Show nested quote +
On April 07 2013 14:48 sinani206 wrote:
StrongandBig: Actually looks like he could be scum. Playing very differently than he did in RTP and I agree with the cases made on him. He seems to be playing a typical earlygame conservative scum strategy, skirting discussion and leading people in the wrong direction. I'll slap my vote on him for now.


Explain the bolded. Because it sounds like made up bullshit.



On April 07 2013 15:28 Keirathi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2013 15:09 geript wrote:
Honestly Keirathi, I don't feel great about Rayn, but I don't want to put too much stock in a meta read from one game especially when I don't know much of anything about Rayn. I could see someone going for a plan that puts them early in the draft order regardless of alignment.

As for S&B I'd like to hear his response, but I like your points about how he seems to find the draft/picking phase important but doesn't actually contribute anything to them at all.

So go look at his filters from past games. Dismissing a meta read because you're too lazy to look at the meta yourself is just...wtfboggle.

And my point wasn't that he was just pushing a plan to get himself high in the draft order. Yes, a townie could do that too. What I don't think a townie would do is specifically say that one plan was undeniably the best plan for town, the immediately flip flop on it and say that its a bad plan now, just because a new plan came up that benefits himself more. He's putting himself above the town as a whole; suddenly and for not much reason. (Which I also contend is completely different from what town rayn just did last game.)

On April 08 2013 07:54 Keirathi wrote:
@rayn: good, you're back

First: ##Unvote

Now, let's talk a bit:

Show nested quote +
On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
1) How much time i devote to the game depends on how much time i have available. I have not ahd much time this weekend.

What are you defending here? WHY are you defensive? I didn't call you out for lurking/not contributing/whatever. Weird opening statement.

Show nested quote +
On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
How i play also depends on the setup. It's very different when everyone is vanilla or when everyone has roles. You are making a meta case and later on you say you are not even sure about my meta. How do you think anyone is going to believe you if you are not sure yourself?

You're right to an extent. I said that I hadn't read your scum meta. But everything about your play has been so glaringly different from the way you JUST played as town. Why? "Because the game is different" isn't an excuse for thinking and behaving completely differently.

Show nested quote +
On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
2) That's bullshit. I never said "abandon Geript's plan, it's dumb". I wanted to implement Geript's + Vivax's plan and use them both. Here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766&currentpage=19#362
I don't know why you even bring something this ridiculous up..

You didn't specifically call it dumb. I was...paraphrasing, a bit. And that post you just linked came before the post where I said you were calling geript's plan dumb, which is even weirder.

Let's look at the progression, exactly:

Show nested quote +
On April 05 2013 02:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On April 05 2013 01:20 geript wrote:
New plan: Instead of having a set 'draft list' in that say people drafting from 1-4 need to choose from a list of ABCD roles. People drafting from 5-8 need to draft from a list of EFGH, etc. etc. This makes it very risky for Scum to draft both outside of their own list and inside of their own list.

This is absolytely the best plan and the only one i'm going to support. We just need to find out what the roles are that we put to 1-4, 5-8, etc.

Show nested quote +
On April 05 2013 02:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I also support Vivax' idea if i get to be #1, Geript #2, and yamato, Mocsta, Sharrant #3-#5.

Show nested quote +
On April 05 2013 02:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Combine Vivax' + Geript's ideas and let these guys pick [1][1], [2][1], [3][1], [4][1], [5][1] (everyone else picks [6->] [X]):

Then:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2013 03:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles.


geript's plan was exactly that: the people in the first 4 slots (aka pod, in this case) would be limited to a certain pod of picks. You said that was unarguably the best plan for town. Then changed your mind and are saying it's a bad plan. That's what I was getting at, here.

Show nested quote +
On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
There is no reason to push any plans further when people reacted to any plans like they did. 3/4 of the people said "fuck all the plans", "i'm gonna do whatever they want so fu" or "it takes all the fun out of the game". What's the point of discussing any plans further when you already know it's not gonna happen anyways? At least i fucking provided a plan that had four town reads in it for people to discuss but no.. Everyone just hopped right over that part..

Ugh, I hate this kind of excuse. "No one else was doing anything, so I refuse to do anything too!"

YOU were the one saying that the top picks needed some kind of cooperation. Why didn't you try to get any? You just got your top pick, and buggered off.

Show nested quote +
On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
TLDR;
- Strange reads with no progression or reasoning - maybe you should have asked me about those reads then if you do not know where my head is at. Now you are just calling me scum because you think i have not reasoned my reads well enough yet you have had no intention to even find out why my reads are what they are.

It's not my job to find out why you spew out bullshit reads with no explanation. The onus is on you to explain yourself. But again, that isn't even my point AT ALL. My entire point was that the way you are acquiring those reads is entirely inconsistent with how you acquired reads in Red Team. In Red Team, you saw something you didn't like, and either made a case right there, or you started poking and prodding at the person, questioning them and their motives. This game you just drop a name. Why so different?

Show nested quote +
On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
- uncooperative - I see myself being the most cooperative peron before we got our roles. there are a lot of people who are way more uncooperative. After the roles were out i have had basically no time to think about the game, but that's gonna change now.

Again, missed the whole point. You said that the top picks needed to be cooperative with picking powerful roles/denying scum roles. But didn't try to cooperate at all with the top picks once the draft order came out.

Show nested quote +
On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
- excessive posturing to attempt to get himself in the top picks - rofl, why wouldn't you want to be #1 person picking? How is this alignment indicative at all? Actually, scum would more likely try to avoid being the #1 picker because that automatically gives you a lot of attention and less chances to fakeclaim later if needed. Also the top guys are gonna get killed anyways early on as they probably have the "best" roles in the game. If they do not die it brings more attention to them.

I already addressed that.

No, trying to get yourself in a top pick isn't scummy, in itself. Rapidly changing your mind to a plan that benefits you more, personally, than town, and then refusing to back up your opinions on cooperating with the other top picks is scummy, though.

I'm looking forward to seeing what you contribute today, though. Hopefully you can change my mind.



##Unvote: Keirathi

Regarding Artanis I'm going to do some more reading tonight, but he has some posts that I find quite townie. I think they show that he is trying to contribute, as well as a clear thought process in attempting to help the town determine what is best in the draft phase.

Show nested quote +
On April 04 2013 17:45 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
So if I'm getting things right we plan on giving strong town reads effectively VT roles, correct? Though the idea of stopping strong scum roles is appealing, there are a myriad of strong roles in the game and I don't think sacrificing strong townreads that can pick early (and therefore are unlikely to be blocked by anyone) VT roles just to stop scum from picking certain roles is good.
1. They'll know exactly what X players before them picked so they can dodge roles that would otherwise make them VT.
2. Strong townreads end up with a public VT role rather than being able to help town beyond their scumhunting.
3. The townVT to scumVT balance will shift heavily in scum's favour
4. If there's scum before the last strong townread assigned to a scumrole, it could easily be sniped anyway.
I think it's best if everyone hides their picks since it'll give scum the least amount of information and prevent them from having safe picks.


Gives critical input on a plan as opposed to negative input, and has his first iteration of a plan: Everyone pick as discretely as possible.

Show nested quote +
On April 04 2013 18:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I have a better plan for the Yamato plan, if you do decide to go through with it. If we have people that look suffeciently town, are early in the list and are willing to follow the plan, they could RNG between blocking a role and taking a 'real' role themselves without revealing which one they'd want to pick. It would create a risk too great for scum to pick that role unless they're going to WIFOM about if the town player would actually do it or not, and it'd give a 50% shot for the town player to actually still get a useful role. It's less certain than the Yamato plan but I think it puts town in a better position. It could have the same net effect yet have a higher chance for town to get more blues.


Again giving critical input and creating a new plan, or at the very least a new iteration in Yamato's plan.

Show nested quote +
On April 04 2013 22:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On April 04 2013 18:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I have a better plan for the Yamato plan, if you do decide to go through with it. If we have people that look suffeciently town, are early in the list and are willing to follow the plan, they could RNG between blocking a role and taking a 'real' role themselves without revealing which one they'd want to pick. It would create a risk too great for scum to pick that role unless they're going to WIFOM about if the town player would actually do it or not, and it'd give a 50% shot for the town player to actually still get a useful role. It's less certain than the Yamato plan but I think it puts town in a better position. It could have the same net effect yet have a higher chance for town to get more blues.

No one's actually addressed this yet, especially Yamato which I find strange as it's an improvement upon his plan. I'd propose we use it for 2 roles at the most though. Past that, it just becomes too unreliable.

I don't like the VT claiming idea. Players that ended up with a VT role are still important to town in one way: Taking hits that would otherwise land on blues. I don't think the info gained on roles is worth this downside. There might be exceptions in certain situations (such as a player high up in the list claiming VT when he tried to pick a scummy role), but as the norm I'd be against it.


Brings up his idea again, stating he believes it's an improvement to the plan, and again is applying critical thinking about the picking strategies that others are proposing. I don't see this as "hiding in set up speculation" I see this as someone applying critical thought as to how the town can start the game off with the most advantageous, and start the mafia off with the least.

Show nested quote +
On April 05 2013 08:21 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
The accountability is a good point actually, I hadn't thought about that yet. Hm. Still think it's better than doing nothing at all though since without any rules at all there's no accountability anyway.
Will sleep on it.


He takes criticism on his plan well, says he'll take time to think about it. To me it reads really townie,especially because of a later post where he brings up that the route town was going had no accountability. His posts to me show the thought process of someone trying to min/max the drafting system, and follows a plausible planning process.


As I said earlier, I'll take a further look into him, and read the cases more thoroughly, but to me he reads as at least decently townie.


I'm going to post this now, I'll be reading and writing for a (hopefully) larger post, so if anyone else is going to be on for a bit, let's chat about someone, I'll even let you pick who.


hi sharrant
i don't think you are right in interpreting those posts as townie, those are things scum could do as well - both because setup discussion is always fertile ground for scum to grow the rare towncred-flower, and because it was (or at least, it seemed to me) clear that this town was too fractious for a real plan to come together.
that said i like that you are taking this seriously and giving real thought to what you're saying

it seems like you haven't been commenting much on stuff since the end of the setup phase but that may be because you play more like i did when i was a new player, with a lot of full sentences and capitalization and well-thought-out posts

so how about lets talk about a player? I randomly chose obviousone. i wrote up a few sentences about his post about artanis, how about you do the same and then we can both post ours after i finish my next dota game?
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