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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
I'll try to keep the setup speculation brief, but we do have a small amount of information going in to this. We know that it is unlikely that there are more than two investigative roles based on the post in another thread. As such, investigative roles should keep this in mind. We also know that this game will likely contain several masons, based on the discussions from the mafia podcast. If a player like sandroba is masoning a newer player, I feel that he should be providing a pretty good reason for doing so. More often than not, a vet selects a newer player in order to manipulate them via pms. I'm certainly open to anyone that would like to mason myself. <3 VE, I'm totally going to form a rival scum hunting team that's going to destroy yours. On March 16 2013 22:28 GreYMisT wrote: First off, fairly busy today, so I'll be more active in around 5 hours. Second off: Stop doing this. There is no use in forming assumptions based off no fact at all. I disagree 100%. In fact, it was my favorite post in the thread so far. I find the easiest way to townhunt on day one is to look for players that are sharing the same train of thought as yourself. Before even reading this post, I was going to mention that we could try to take advantage of a claim at some point if we have evidence based on flips that evil sounding roles such as the Snake, Devil, or Nightmare are mafia aligned. I suggested something very similar in Chrono Trigger, and while it did not immediately pay off due to mafia fake claims, it put the mafia in a position where they had to claim a role that did not fit their character name. Most importantly, ThePeashooter seems to be trying to come up with a plan that benefits town, showing he likely has the town's best interest in mind. Upon first read, zarepath's reads seem ticky tacky at best. "I'm town" posts should be mostly ignored (Except mine. I'm totally town!). Even though last game, the players claiming town may have been scum, over a much larger sample size, it it pretty irrelevant. Suspecting Coag for joining VE's silly group seems like you want to post suspicious of someone, but you don't actually have anything to go with, so you provide a reason, without thinking to yourself whether its a single bit relevant. GoodKarma's post sounds like a generic, "I need to post, but I don't have much to say". On March 16 2013 23:48 Vivax wrote: ##Vote kitaman27 He be lurkin' Naw just sleeping, though I do assure you that learning to post while sleeping is an utmost priority. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 17 2013 01:36 sandroba wrote: Kita, I love your post. And yes, I will join your team. Heading out, see you gents tomorrow. As long as tomorrow means tomorrow and not hour 46 of day 2.  | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 17 2013 05:31 goodkarma wrote: Regarding Grey: I asked about grey because I could find very little about his meta. I know he hosts many games, but he doesn't seem to have played in many. Best I can tell so far, he seems very detached from this game, posting often, but saying very little... Having a look at his meta would really help, if anyone happens to know a game he has actually played in (and not hosted) I would love to look at it. It's posts like these that set off alarms for me. Even if goodkarma doesn't know about the mafia database contining filter links to all his games, he certainly is aware of the search function. Rather than posting in the thread to tell people you want to look at his meta, why not actually research a past game, come to a conclusion and report back to the thread? It seems to me that you are more concerned about looking town, without doing the actual dirty work. Furthermore you are certainly capable of finding old games. You post a link to sandroba's old town game. So why is it that you are unable to find a GreYMisT game without posting in the thread about it? On March 17 2013 06:00 goodkarma wrote: Here's sandroba's filter for fruity mafia, a game where he was town: Fruity Mafia In addition, where exactly have you established a pro-town atomosphere? All I see is a post about lurkers and a response to VE's irrelevant scum hunting squad. You have overstated your contributions and even reply to Wiggles in an omgus manner. On March 17 2013 05:31 goodkarma wrote: But what I'd recommend you to do right now is to focus some of your energies on getting others to participate (not everyone has even posted yet!), and pursue some of your other scumreads. Because tunneling one read, and going into lurker mode thereafter is in itself pretty scummy... You inform him that tunneling one read and lurking is scummy. He has hardly lurked with the game only being 18ish hours old and you tell him to pursue another scumread, while you yourself are unwilling to reveal a scumread yet, which seems like a double standard. I'm going to throw my vote your way to get things started. ##Vote goodkarma I'm also suspicious of GreYMisT. I'll wait to post about him until later since he promised a contribution when he is less busy today. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 17 2013 06:50 Kenpachi wrote: I welcome myself to this marvelous game. ^^ Doesn't claim town, must be scum. ^^ | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 17 2013 13:21 Vivax wrote: Yamato i think coagulation is not a good choice for d1 for reasons wf pointed out ...is this a scum slip? As far as I know, ThePeashooter's identity as Yamato is not public knowledge. Was it revealed at any point in the thread? | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 18 2013 01:21 Vivax wrote: The "scumslip": I tried to guess TPS alignment, and it sounds a lot like (a townish) yamato, especially in the two posts after I voted for him. So I actually would like to know if it's really him since he didn't answer to me yet I think. I'm not too bad at guessing smurfs, I like to do that as either alignment (LX as reference for me doing it as mafia, LIX for town where I guessed marv correctly). I'm not really buying this explanation. When you addressed to him, you made it sound like a fact as if you knew he was yamato. If you were taking a guess, you could have said something like "hey, are you yamato?" or "This is yamato, isn't it?". Furthermore, TPS posts after you address him as yamato and he thinks nothing of it. If I'm playing a game and someone calls me someone I'm not, I'm going to be awful confused. Even though that happened 10 pages ago, you never brought it up again. TPS had ignored your "guess", yet you never followed up on it. If you were truly curious, why not mention it? You say that you "tried to guess TPS's alignment" and that you thought he was town, yet the previous post indicated that he was your number one scum read. Finally, how can you possibly come to a conclusion on a smurfs identity like that? When I see TPS's posts, I see some random player. I couldn't possibly guess who it was by the sample size you were given. ##Vote: Vivax | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 17 2013 14:38 GreYMisT wrote: Perfect, I was waiting for this! Does anyone else but me find this post odd? let me tell you why you should. First off. I have contributed about 0 things this game. Zilch. Nada. So much so that it honestly should be a null/leaning scum tell on me. Especially considering I have not been around for the last few hours or so. Its not like im spamming or trolling, I have been a non presence. Now normally this would be an OK pressure vote, if thats what this was. HOWEVER, he says that I am his number 1 scumread (he's willing to put a vote on me), saying that I have had ample opportunity to contribute, and am MORE than a lurker. This doesn't make sense. You were "waiting for this"? So are you saying you were setting a trap, being afk without contributing anything, and then when someone calls you out about it, you're going to pounce on them? How do you distinguish between a pressure vote and a real vote anyways? At that point it seemed quite reasonable to vote for you, I was considering it. I still think it would be reasonable to vote for you. So say I voted for you, rather than the guy leading the lynch vote. Would I have fallen for your "trap"? I find this scummy. As for goodkarma, I haven't moved my vote because I was sastisfied with his response. I am still leaning scum on him, though with GreYMisT and goodkarma going after each other, I'm not sure if they are trying to create distance or one of them is actually town. I think Vivax is a more sure bet however, based on the slip early. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 18 2013 02:51 Vivax wrote: Regarding this: I wanted to know if the guy is yamato cause if he is, I'd give him a townread (Feeling sure he was at that moment). If you go look, my read on him changed after his two big, abrasive posts (go look them up with the # at my post), where I assumed he was yamato cause yamato has an extensive work schedule and posts like that towards people who accuse him often. Kita, can you look at my cases regarding sandro, cosmic and DYH before jumping to conclusions and tell me what you agree and disagree with? sandroba is afk, which he does nearly 50% of the time, as both alignments. He did try to buddy me early on, but that was the last we heard from him. DrH said he had a reasonable excuse, so I'm willing to ignore him as null until his replacement comes in. Your post on cosmic is reasonable. I do agree that the topics he feels relevant enough to comment on are quite weak. There are far more interesting things to discuss that he has ignored. I'm not following what you're saying about DYH. Maybe you can explain what you are referencing. I did go back through all of your games in your profile, but I couldn't find any post where you have "guessed" at a smurfs identity before, like you did here. I was worried about your first post already when you started talking about "consolidate your posts" and "spoiler quotes" as this stuff isn't really helpful unless its post game advice and it seems like you were trying to make yourself town. This had me a moderate scum read even before the yamato post. I'm still considering goodkarma though, so I'll have to reread the thread once more before coming to a decision. I would like to hear from TPS about the whole yamato situation as well, whether he confirms or denies it and why he ignored it the first time. On March 18 2013 03:17 Coagulation wrote: well not really but considering the slip would indicate that they are both scum and peashooter is my other best read so far the theory fits at any rate. goodkarma isnt really popping out to me. want me to read his filter? testsubject is same nothing comes to mind. If TPS is your strongest read and the scumslip would indicate that are both scum, why vote for vivax over TPS? | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 17 2013 15:42 goodkarma wrote: My case against you revolved around you contributing nothing when you were there. This is something that made you stand out to me over the lurkers. The last few hours, however, you have made it clear you have an active interest in the game which invalidates my original case points against. On March 18 2013 05:18 goodkarma wrote: Regarding Grey: I really like ryu's case on Grey. With Sandroba being replaced, and these new valid concerns being brought up regarding Grey's posting history, I'm changing my vote back to Grey.: ##Unvote ##Vote: Grey I would ask in the next few hours we find two candidates to consolidate our votes between. As of right now, we're kind of spread everywhere, which is poor form this close to the deadline. These two posts seem to contradict each other. You initially found GreYMisT scummy, but then you changed your mind, thinking he has an active interest in the game. Now, you're back onto GreYMisT, without addressing your previous town read on him. Is he no longer interested in the game? What in particular about Ryu's case do you agree with? | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
There does seem to be a heck of a lot of pushback on goodkarma though. There were quite a few players that all seemed to agree he was suspicious, yet there are only a couple of votes on him at the moment. Unfortunately, being awake for the 3AM deadline when I have to get up at 6AM isn't an option. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 18 2013 12:21 geript wrote: Sidenote: how do you find the games someone's been in? Just by manually looking into all the games or is there another way? You could try using this. It doesn't include games finished in the last month though. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=390080#2 | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 18 2013 11:43 sciberbia wrote: Kitaman, do you have an opinion on zarepath? Like I mentioned earlier, I think his first big post was more of a "post for the sake of posting" than anything actually meaningful. I am bothered by his swap to GreYMisT, after failing to mention him at all earlier than the day. Between the two, I'm sticking with GreYMisT though. Time for bed. Hope to start the work week off with a scumflip. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Then you'll have to avenge me...unless we both die. -_- | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 19 2013 17:09 Ace wrote: Why would you claim Vet though as Town? Even if the Scum clearly know they shot you, they have no idea how the hit failed. Roleclaiming serves no purpose here. To be clear, are you inferring that you believe VE isn't town because a town VE would have no reason to claim vet or are you lecturing VE for a poor decision? Unless someone else claims a hit, I see no reason to doubt the hit with only one flip. Keirathi could have been a doublestack, but its pretty unlikely. Unless VE is still around 5 cycles from now I imagine the claim will take care of itself. On March 19 2013 12:48 VisceraEyes wrote: Kita what do you think of BH this game? TELL ME THE TRUTH!!! *hexhexhex* I'll get back to you after I get a chance to read through the logs. If I don't, remind me. I'm having trouble looking for a post if someone recalls it. There was a player who posted a bunch of links to a past game, without commenting on the content. I looked 3 times through the thread and couldn't find it, so I might just be crazy, but I was hoping to see if they ever followed up with it. @TPS. If you can confirm/deny your identity as yamato, I believe it will give me a clue to your alignment based on one of your earlier posts and it is something not related to the Vivax guess. If you are town, you would surely be willing to reveal this small piece of information. I'll come up with a much larger post tonight when I actually have more time, without getting interrupted every 3 minutes. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
WaveofShadow The first player I'd like to bring up is WaveofShadow. Whenever I try to look at a player, the most important thing to look at in my opinion is motive. During the first few cycles of a game, it can be quite difficult to differentiate a townie post and a mafia post. The easiest way to tell the difference is to ask yourself, what is a player trying to accomplish with these posts and what does this player care most about. When I read through the filter of Wave, I can't help but notice that he is much more willing to play through others, than to put himself out there. On numerous occasions, we can see him prodding other players with questions, but there has been very little follow through. He questions other players reads, but fails to come to significant conclusions. Wave has approached the first two cycles in a way that shows me that he has little interest in being the guy that gets a player lynched. He is more interested in selecting a bandwagon based on the arguments of other players. In his support for the day one lynch, he posts the following: On March 18 2013 04:16 WaveofShadow wrote: I CAN, however get behind a vote on DP. I support VE's case though I do not necessarily support his town circle; call that scummy if you wish but having never seen one in a game before I have no idea of their risks or benefits and it just seems manipulative to me. Vote: Darthpunk This is the first time in the game he actually mentions Darthpunk. He states in a single line that he supports VE's case, yet provides no reasoning for why he agrees. Notice how defensive he gets with his vote. In reference to his disapproval of VE's circle he states "Call that scummy if you wish." At a point where he has selected his preferred lynch candidate, he is still spending more time discussing VE's completely irrelevant circle. For the sake of keeping this post legible, I've edited out the previous part of this quote, but he spends a whole paragraph discussing the deal with yamato. Why is it that he is spending more time discussing events not relevant to his scumread, than the actual vote itself? It would be one thing if VE's case was so convincing that he had nothing to add. However, when I ask myself, does he care about this lynch, I come to the conclusion that he does not. On March 18 2013 12:00 WaveofShadow wrote: I can also see it isn't likely that DarthPunk is goin' down but I want a chance to re-read before changing anything. I remember thinking that zare isn't scum but I don't remember why. DarthPunk is his preferred lynch candidate, but at this point he has put absolutely no effort in pushing his selection. He is more than willing to comment on unrelated issues, but when it comes to the part of the game that should be most relevant, he shows little interest. This post shows me that his scum read is influenced by whether or not he believes the town views it as a viable lynch. When a mafia player selects a bandwagon, they often due it based on where the town's sentiment lies. Once he realizes that DarthPunk isn't going to get lynched, he backs off, simply stating that he has responded well to pressure. On March 17 2013 05:19 WaveofShadow wrote: No excuses here, but of the people I know in this game, very few have posted thus far so I can't read much into meta On March 18 2013 13:18 WaveofShadow wrote: My meta reads are overall fairly weak thus far into my mafia career though so I'm not yet comfortable lynching zare based on that evidence. On March 18 2013 04:16 WaveofShadow wrote: Meta reads are going to be something I will not be very good at until I play quite a few more games with all of you guys, so I can't look back at Yamato and try to find out if Vivax's claim is legitimate. On March 18 2013 23:17 WaveofShadow wrote: My meta reads are very weak as I have stated earlier. Back to my point about his "defensive" phrasing of his vote, he has been acting quite defensive during the first two cycles. While a town player plays with confidence, Wave seems quite careful with his actions and is quite concerned with other's view of himself. Look how important it is to him for others to realize his meta based scum-hunting skills are sub-par. On four different occasions he makes this statement. On March 18 2013 22:50 WaveofShadow wrote: It's also nice how everyone is going to be real fucking quick to jump down my throat thanks to GM randomly naming me before he dies (multiple times) without anything to back it up. I love how just like in LX I get ignored half the game and no one responds to anything I say, and as soon as somebody randomly decides to point fingers at me suddenly the whole fucking thread is up in arms. (Expletives deleted, don't want DrH yelling at me), I'm lone wolfing this game. In response to suspicion, he reacts quite strangely. Look how worked up he gets when GM names him as a scum read. There is essentially no pressure or votes on him at this point, yet he is responding as if he is about to be hammered. On March 18 2013 23:17 WaveofShadow wrote: But please, by all means keep it coming and tunnel me instead of hunting for real scum. It's not like this is a distraction or anything from the real point of the game. On March 19 2013 03:28 WaveofShadow wrote: Wat. GL with that. And as for responding to post-flip pressure, it just pisses me off that I don't get listened to at all on certain days; people only tend to pay attention to me when they think I'm scummy which has been...let's see....NEVER. These are more examples of how important it is to him that he is seen in good light. Note how he has spent more time talking about his annoyance of getting suspected, than he does about DarthPunk earlier. His vote of GreYMisT also occurred at a time where GreYMisT was suspicious of him. On March 19 2013 03:34 WaveofShadow wrote: Haha wow I guess I really do have to be more careful what I post in these games...I make mistakes wayy too often that get seen as scummy. I guess it's good that people are pointing this shit out 'cause I didn't notice, and eventually I'll stop fucking myself over with these mistakes. I dunno, not much to say about that. I'll blame it on lack of sleep due to 3 month old baby. Finally, I come to this post which is what caused me to look at him further. Look how squirmish he is in his response. This is at a point where he accidentally mentioned to a lynch, rather than a night kill. It was a 100% typo and a non-issue. Yet here is his talking about how his has to be more careful about not making mistakes and coming up with more excuses. Wave has show that he cares more about himself, than town. He is willing to share opinions on less important issues, while skimping in pushing town objectives when it comes to the lynch. He responds in a mafia manner to suspicion and posts with an attitude that lacks the look of a town player. I think he would make an excellent lynch today. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
I had a town read on VE prior to the claimed hit, due to the interest he seemed to put into the game on day one and I see little reason why claiming a hit should change things. There shouldn't be two votes on him and discussing him today is wasting time that could be diverted to other individuals. The notion of BH posting fake logs is silly. As someone who has posted created fake logs in the past, they take hours and hours to fabricate. At this point in the game, you gain very little town cred for a set of mason logs between two players that haven't flipped. I don't understand why people think he would take a post from his mafia quicktopic and copy it into his mason quicktopic. We know that quicktopics are provided for masons, so if that were the case, there would be no reason to fabricate logs. GK and BH could have simply used the quicktopic to create a conversation between two mafia members. The logs posted seem legit and look like they correspond to each player's thought process in the actual thread. | ||
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