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Vivax
21682 Posts
tryhard mode engaged | ||
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Vivax
21682 Posts
I realize some of this stuff might have already been said I hoped this game would be different, less conversation pulling you into an endless circle of impulsive-responsive answers to the last questions, burying information faster and faster while your intention to go back and dig something up correlates negatively with the amount of new, possibly pointless questions that arise on the newest pages. Seems like we're back to what I've seen in most of the latter games and I'd like if we could change that thanks. Consolidate your posts, don't nitpick. Put huge quotes in spoilers. This for example is not ok: + Show Spoiler + On March 16 2013 16:18 DarthPunk wrote: You say that but in my last game with him he rage quit because everyone else was too stupid 0_o I have the objective to make lurkers post initially, and make roleplayers and trolls play normally. To do so I like to threaten with lynches. But I mostly got called scummy for doing this when it's something that makes sense. Policies are good, cause no one wants to lynch coinflips. But if you vote early for multiple coinflips, you will see which people are more eager to go with specific coinflips, and you will see how these coinflips react to the prospective of a lynch. Force people to play in a way that is useful on D1, so they will have to keep that up throughout the game if it's shown they are able to. That is all on general gameplay I wanted to say. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ I snipped some stuff out from this post, but I want to say I already like goodkarma since he promotes good targets. I'll have to disagree with one thing though: Lurker lynches don't suck (in absence of really strong cases). With this attitude, you encourage D1 lurking. Change your mind before deadline if it need be, but lurker lynching has to be a visible threat for those during the day. The other stuff I agree with, leave setup speculation to D2 possibly. + Show Spoiler + On March 16 2013 16:17 goodkarma wrote: Regarding lurker lynches: Town lurkers seem to be semi-prevalent in these bigger games, and as such imho there will be better people to lynch day one. Leave lurkers to vigis if need be. And as for "randomized lynching," we should be able to get some decent scumreads day one. Sure, day one can be challenging, but it's not impossible to get a solid scum lynch the first day. So again, no thanks. Regarding Setup Speculation: Until such a time we find this game has heavily themed aspects, I highly recommend we don't waste time on setup speculation and focus on finding scum. So far, I like Wade's contributions. He brings up good points regarding peashooter (leaning scum) and geript, although when comparing Wade's points to sciberbia's: + Show Spoiler + On March 16 2013 17:23 sciberbia wrote: I've got some stuff to say about geript The first possibly important thing I noticed in the thread. The phrasing of the first sentence as a question instead of a statement seems a bit odd to me. It's like he's saying "Would you find this explanation acceptable?" rather than "This is the explanation." Seems unnecessarily passive and ingratiating. This rubs me a bit the wrong way. Seems like a crummy reason to go to bed. People accuse you of being mafia so you go to bed? What? Also, seems like he's almost providing an 'excuse' to leave the thread. Overall, leaning scum on geript. I don't think it is especially likely that zarepath and geript are both scum. If zarepath and geript actually were scumbuddies, I think there is an excellent chance that geript would have either gone through with the RNG vote (with the knowledge that it is very unlikely to lead to a lynch and with the devious hope that town would later get confused by WIFOM), or just drop the RNG thing all-together. First point is about phrasing. I agree that it's strange that geript doesn't simply go for Zarepath without telling us about his awesome RNG stuff and waiting for us to jump on it (as if one ever would), it feels to me like he knows himself how useless it is and just saw other people doing it and getting away with it. I don't think it's a matter of phrasing though. I feel like scib's points aren't very aggravating. I'm used to scum getting nervous when called out, not leaving the thread. Then there's this weird connection case that reads too much into this hipster RNG-thing and doesn't really tell us anything useful about geript or Zare. In summary, I agree with sciberbia's target as being a subject to scrutiny, but not with most of sciberbia's arguments. Go read LX first if you want a meta read on geript cause he got mislynched there for some strange play (I think he's rather new here, it's ok) Sciberbia: Then there's the interaction between VE and sciberbia which left me slightly scummish on sciberbia for the reasons VE pointed out, mainly. I'll wait to see how he keeps performing. In the last mafia game with him in team he usually made huge posts with really good reads and posted very few, but accurately. He is a guy who knows how to position himself read-wise to look good while sounding good. Sandro: I don't like this post. Quick conclusions. No arguments, no read on BH and VE (just being silly) and conclusive reads on people I actually find scummy. Townish reads on a guy who contributed something pointless. Not the sandro I would expect as town. Leaning red. + Show Spoiler + On March 16 2013 22:24 sandroba wrote: Geript and sciberbia are both town. BH is trying to emulate his previous behavior. VE is silly. Peashooter I'm leaning town due to the no name claiming warning, other than that the rest of the speculation is pointless at this stage. He seems to be a reasonable fella though, I'm curious about who he is. Keep up the good work gents. Greymist: Quick in believing Wade would kill Peashooter over such a thing. Putting the thought out there is good play at early stage. Seems to not support the pressure. | ||
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Vivax
21682 Posts
He be lurkin' | ||
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Vivax
21682 Posts
I'll still throw my 2¢ in. My read on sandro hasn't changed but cosmicomics strange entrance into the thread in connection with sandro is definitely worth a closer look. Will post in detail when i'm at my comp around 7 -8 pm cet. I endorse a tps wagon though and oppose both zarepath and gk as lynch choices. Sciberbia looks better, ve's plan was bad and no one should talk about applying to a circle, they come naturally. That said, i agree with most of what bh says and share his tps and gk reads. I'll give more steam to the wagon of justice in the meantime. ##vote thepeashooter | ||
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Vivax
21682 Posts
Since i think you're the guy i just mentioned i might actually change my mind about you. Could you look at cosmicomics when you have time? Also sandro and especially his town meta. Never seen him make such an entrance. | ||
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Vivax
21682 Posts
A NEW CHALLENGER IS APPROACHING ## Vote: DoYouHas | ||
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Vivax
21682 Posts
For a start, Look at cosmicomics entrance into the thread and wonder: Would this be the first question I make as town? Look at Sandro's town meta: Did he ever come into the game spitting out reads and not-reads without explanation and fucking off? Look at DoYouHas: 1. His posts read to me like he's trying to tell a story, not like he's actively trying to figure the game out, subjective feeling. 2. He was too agreeable towards the SAST thingy from the start. It's fluff and should be treated like fluff. | ||
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Vivax
21682 Posts
The "scumslip": I tried to guess TPS alignment, and it sounds a lot like (a townish) yamato, especially in the two posts after I voted for him. So I actually would like to know if it's really him since he didn't answer to me yet I think. I'm not too bad at guessing smurfs, I like to do that as either alignment (LX as reference for me doing it as mafia, LIX for town where I guessed marv correctly). ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ Sandroba I wrote about him here cosmicomics Let's put ourselves into the shoes of a townie who didn't post anything yet at a later point in D1. You don't know who's innocent, you don't know who's guilty, so you will usually say "I find this dude suspicious cause of x and I agree with y cause of bsbsbsbsbs" after having a read of everything, maybe throw in a few questions to see who agrees with you on something or why someone did a certain thing. I can't remember the last time I popped into the thread asking a question about a dude I don't know the alignment of, and nitpicking while doing so. Look at the question in question. It's not constructed to get a reasonable answer for the purposes of this game. It's constructed in a way that I have to answer with a version of town sandro I have in my head. Maybe town sandro does x and y and z, shortly, it's constructed in a way that it may lead me to say tons of stupid things if I answered it. Thanks to another player I value for his support, he answered this question for me by providing a town sandro filter. But that's not the worst about this question. As I said, I consider this to be nitpicking. I wrote Quick conclusions. No arguments, no read on BH and VE (just being silly) and conclusive reads on people I actually find scummy. Townish reads on a guy who contributed something pointless And this dude picks a cherry and ignores everything I actually said about why sandro doesn't look like town without commenting on the points I made. He doesn't give his own opinion of sandro and doesn't agree on at least a bit of it, cause he should. What I said is true. In the next post, he twists my words: On March 17 2013 08:33 cosmicomics wrote: To clarify, my question is, "what is sandroba like here that you find his playstyle distinct from his other town games?" Either Vivax is leaning red because sandroba's reads differ from his, which is a very poor reason to think someone is scum, especially D1, or he is leaning red because sandroba's playstyle is somehow different, which doesn't make sense because sandroba has a unique scumhunting style that can sometimes make "quick conclusions" and obtain "townish reads on a guy who contributed something pointless" that 'normal scumhunting' may not. This question is specifically directed at Vivax. Again, sandro's reads did differ from mine. But cosmicomics cherrypicks again, since not only was my point that sandro's reads were strange cause they differed from mine, but they were strange cause he gave them without reasoning and they didn't seem to make sense to me. And I said it in the post. Then he proceeds to defend sandroba based on some unique scumhunting style. I saw sandro being wrong and right often enough to not give him an air of legend allowing him to give reads without explanation and fucking off. Cosmicomics seems to be idealizing a guy he shouldn't have a read on this early in the game. After this he makes a quick minicase regarding an inconsistency, with no conclusion as to why DarthPunk is scum, drops his vote and doesn't inquire anything further regarding DP. On March 17 2013 08:45 cosmicomics wrote: You can see in the nested quotes that geript drops RNG for setup spec "I thought I couldn't use it from what was said in pregame and the tarot stuff got me interested." and then moves into asking about a different topic "How do you feel about this being based on some sort of tarot stuff?" So DarthPunk is acting as if geript is still attempting his RNG stuff (he isn't) and trying to lynch him off that, and doesn't actually address him. How do you get so mad at someone you totally dismiss his posting so quickly? ##Vote: DarthPunk This is the guy I want to lynch the most today. It looks a lot like he's posting with an agenda. ##Unvote ##Vote cosmicomics | ||
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Vivax
21682 Posts
We currently have the same objectives for lynch I support either of the three candidates so we should probably pick the best out of them. I feel like DYH has committed himself to posting that way and should not be prioritized. If he stops contributing we will notice and if he keeps it up we only gain more information about him so I think sandro and cosmicomics have higher priority. Given cosmicomics strange defense by offense I think these two are possibly scumbuddies, more people might be opposed to lynching sandro cause he's considered (grrr...) a vet so maybe we should agree on cosmic? Can you give your insight on what I wrote about him? | ||
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On March 18 2013 01:50 GreYMisT wrote: I am not willing to lynch sandroba today. The only evidence people are at all able to present regarding him is that he has been inactive. This doesn't cut it when we have real discussion happening and some real targets. Everyone voting sandroba needs to tell us why they prefer him over people who we actually have cases against. This is simply not true (and I am sure you read my post), the evidence is that he starts the game much more differently than in his town games. In his town games he starts with questions, says what he finds suspicious or townie, but most importantly, he gives reasons. Reasons, grey, that's the bsbsbsbs after saying something. On March 16 2013 22:24 sandroba wrote: Geript and sciberbia are both town. BH is trying to emulate his previous behavior. VE is silly. Peashooter I'm leaning town due to the no name claiming warning, other than that the rest of the speculation is pointless at this stage. He seems to be a reasonable fella though, I'm curious about who he is. Keep up the good work gents. Two townreads. No reasoning. Neutral statement about BH. Meaningless statement about VE. TPS leaning town for his setup speculation. On March 16 2013 22:45 sandroba wrote: Don't care about your "points", and neither do you. You seem mafia to me. Last sentence gave you away. I think it was Ryu(?) who pointed out that this post is strange. It's actually hard to tell if Sandro is trolling or serious but cause of this previously: On March 16 2013 22:30 sandroba wrote: Update: Greymist is suspicious. I'd say he was serious. No explaining behind why Greymist is suspicious for this: While I also think that what he is doing atm is very useless, Why do you think it is worth killing for? I actually agree that Greymist's comment was off (implying BH would kill TPS immediately for the setup speculation, but thinking about it, it sure looked like it), however I don't think it's indicative of alignment at all, it's just that, sounding strange. No particular agenda, rather asking BH in a weird way if he would lynch TPS for that. On March 16 2013 22:40 GreYMisT wrote: Do you disagree with the point that I made? On March 16 2013 22:45 sandroba wrote: Don't care about your "points", and neither do you. You seem mafia to me. Last sentence gave you away. So well, greymist, I don't actually get at all why you feel the need to defend sandro when he attacked you in such a way that doesn't seem genuine to me. Ryu pointed it out in a good way. It looks like sandro was just acting, and you just not caring. | ||
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21682 Posts
Funny that my whole case isn't about activity isn't it? I want to lynch cosmicomics first anyway. | ||
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21682 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On March 17 2013 05:19 WaveofShadow wrote: Maybe to get me to respond you should make up another fake case on me and force me to defend myself.  No excuses here, but of the people I know in this game, very few have posted thus far so I can't read much into meta, and of the people I don't it's mostly speculative bullshit and others jumping down their throats based on a very early read. I'd rather make an educated case than a useless early game read/case that can get dumped on super quickly just to seem towny in your eyes, Zare. This point of view I find pro-town. It's much more townie and transparent than what cosmicomics did with his weak, disinterested case that only helps him to look like he's scumhunting. WoS is being honest and fearless. WoS is rather new here and I saw his performance as town in LX, it isn't wise to judge him by contribution when he's not very experienced. | ||
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Vivax
21682 Posts
I think it's a stupid reason to lynch me although I would probably think something similar in your position. But if you do it, won't be my fault you lose something valuable. | ||
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21682 Posts
On March 18 2013 02:41 kitaman27 wrote: You say that you "tried to guess TPS's alignment" and that you thought he was town, yet the previous post indicated that he was your number one scum read. Finally, how can you possibly come to a conclusion on a smurfs identity like that? When I see TPS's posts, I see some random player. I couldn't possibly guess who it was by the sample size you were given. Regarding this: I wanted to know if the guy is yamato cause if he is, I'd give him a townread (Feeling sure he was at that moment). If you go look, my read on him changed after his two big, abrasive posts (go look them up with the # at my post), where I assumed he was yamato cause yamato has an extensive work schedule and posts like that towards people who accuse him often. Kita, can you look at my cases regarding sandro, cosmic and DYH before jumping to conclusions and tell me what you agree and disagree with? | ||
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21682 Posts
On March 17 2013 13:21 Vivax wrote: Yamato i think coagulation is not a good choice for d1 for reasons wf pointed out, gk isnt either i think. Since i think you're the guy i just mentioned i might actually change my mind about you. Could you look at cosmicomics when you have time? Also sandro and especially his town meta. Never seen him make such an entrance. To all the silly people who think this was a slip (as in, referencing to him as yamato without reason). Should have gone back to this post before starting to explain :| Lynch cosmicomics, kill scum. | ||
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Vivax
21682 Posts
Vigis should take care of him at night. We should find a common lynch target, as pointed out here. Do you agree that Sandro's lynch should be delayed? Could you have a look at cosmic and DYH? On March 18 2013 01:52 Vivax wrote: @ Glurio, trance, Goodkarma We currently have the same objectives for lynch I support either of the three candidates so we should probably pick the best out of them. I feel like DYH has committed himself to posting that way and should not be prioritized. If he stops contributing we will notice and if he keeps it up we only gain more information about him so I think sandro and cosmicomics have higher priority. Given cosmicomics strange defense by offense I think these two are possibly scumbuddies, more people might be opposed to lynching sandro cause he's considered (grrr...) a vet so maybe we should agree on cosmic? Can you give your insight on what I wrote about him? Assuming we delay sandro, do you feel more like cosmic is scum or DYH? | ||
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Hopeless do you think a scum Zarepath would dare to oppose VE's super scumhunting team idea like that? I've been trying to get a read on the dude and I don't get the feeling he's scum. He posts a lot, explains his thoughts, looks spontaneous, series of addenda (that's the plural for addendum), and overall seems to make sense. He doesn't play aggressively at all, but I don't think that is relevant for him. As counter-example I see cosmicomics who replies to a question about DP with a short argument and a quick vote and leaves after asking me scummy questions. I see that as a way to look like he's scumhunting, has a target, a few arguments but doesn't try to do anything else or find out if it's the right target. Then, could you and Wiggles give me an impression of DYH? I suspect the dude is scum. If you're at it and want to, comment on sandro and cosmicomics but doesn't look like they will be lynched today  | ||
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On March 18 2013 02:54 VisceraEyes wrote: Ugh I like Vivax lynch too. Nothing he's said has made me feel townie on him. I'ma go filter him again. Kita why you hatin on GM? I think he's fine for now, and I certainly don't like him for lynch today. Where's the beef? Given that most of the people I find suspicious try to hop onto DP I don't trust the bandwagon. | ||
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On March 18 2013 04:23 RyuSuzaku wrote: I've just finished reading what I missed while I was gone. If sandroba is indeed inactive because of drinking or whatever, I don't think he's a good lynch at all. However, I think greymist is a great choice for lynch today. I so far am not at all convinced that GK or DP or any of the other current names being thrown around are scummier than greymist. I think our best chance to lynch scum today is this guy. There are several major reasons; hopefully my quoting will help here. 1. Greymist excuses his lurking by saying that he was "setting a trap." I seriously doubt there was any sort of trap or intention behind the lurking, seeing as his entry post into the thread mentioned how busy he was. 2. When he was around, greymist didn't do anything other than respond to the host. Surely as a townie, if you know you are going to only be active for certain time periods, you will put effort into pushing your reads, or at least trying to make them. Lurking away your active periods sounds pretty antitown. I know at least for me personally, I do my best to read and post in order to solidify my reads during my active periods. 3. Greymist's posts come off as opportunistic. He accuses goodkarma of attacking "easy targets", yet he himself is guilty of attacking GK, someone I would classify as an easy target. GK also chose DarthPunk and sandroba as two of his four targets, both of which I would firmly classify as "not easy to lynch." GK gave fairly decent reasons for both, and those reasons are understandable from a GK-town perspective. For one, he acknowledges the differences in DP's play between this game and others in which he has played; this type of observation is characteristically rare for mafia players. The fact that greymist is not able to see these reasons is indicative of him being scum. 4. Greymist seems to be overly aware both of his own image and what the town in general thinks. There are a lot of questions to the effect of "what do people think of ____?" and also moments where he calls out players (knowingly) for things he himself is doing. To this end, I give you the following: Note that his response to GK is nothing more than OMGUS. I seriously doubt greymist was setting a trap, given that he himself said how busy he was. He also does exactly the same thing he accuses GK of doing. GK, to me, simply seemed to be stating his reads and his rationale. His rationale appears to be backed up by actual effort-from my independent efforts, I can confirm that much of what he wrote about these players' metas is, on the whole, true. On the other hand, greymist has put no such effort into verifying GK's assertions, nor does he do anything but dismiss GK's reads. In addition, he calls out GK for listing reads so he can allegedly later swap them, yet he basically does the same here: and here: and here: every time greymist posts a read, it's with very minimal effort-not something I would expect a townie to put forth. In addition, his posts are very opportunistic. He only does things under pressure, whether it be direct or indirect. He only attacked GK under the obvious pressure of a vote. Sandro had already claimed suspicion of greymist, but greymist brushed it off-it was only when others agreed with sandro did greymist take the opportunity to attack GK. When kita requested an opinion of greymist on vivax, he did nothing more than regurgitate kita's suspicions and dig up superficialities in how vivax responded. I'm not going to mention why I find greymist to be incredibly suspicious after this last post, since I expect anyone reading thoroughly to be able to discern why. ##vote greymist I'm with this guy ^ He knows what's up. Not to mention the way greymist handled my sandro case (saying activity doesn't matter when my case isn't about activity) and the points previously mentioned by Ryu. I think scum is trying to push a DP wagon. Let's go for Grey, sandro, cosmic or DYH instead.For justice. | ||
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Vivax
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On March 18 2013 04:40 VisceraEyes wrote: So he wants to lynch Grey, sandro, cosmic or DYH, but thinks SCUM are pushing the DP wagon. Presently on the DP wagon: layabout, VE, WoS, glurio. Soooo....several of those things are not like the others.... Not everyone who is on the wagon is scum, and not everyone voted in the voting thread but said they want to lynch him here, like cosmicomics. You should know my reads by now. | ||
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