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RyuSuzaku
Japan139 Posts
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RyuSuzaku
Japan139 Posts
On March 16 2013 22:24 sandroba wrote: Geript and sciberbia are both town. BH is trying to emulate his previous behavior. VE is silly. Peashooter I'm leaning town due to the no name claiming warning, other than that the rest of the speculation is pointless at this stage. He seems to be a reasonable fella though, I'm curious about who he is. Keep up the good work gents. On March 16 2013 22:30 sandroba wrote: Update: Greymist is suspicious. On March 16 2013 22:40 GreYMisT wrote: Do you disagree with the point that I made? On March 16 2013 22:45 sandroba wrote: Don't care about your "points", and neither do you. You seem mafia to me. Last sentence gave you away. I find this interaction forced-there seems to be something off about how sandroba and greymist confront each other here. I wouldn't even call it confronting, really. I dislike sandroba more for the lack of reasoning, but I think it could be possible they are both mafia. ##vote sandroba | ||
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RyuSuzaku
Japan139 Posts
Is sandroba's accusation not worthy of a response? Greymist was clearly around after, since he corrected the host just a while ago. | ||
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RyuSuzaku
Japan139 Posts
On March 17 2013 04:40 layabout wrote: Ryu there isn't much to respond to if your greymist. Are you suggesting sandroba is not a good town player and so his accusation should not be treated seriously? I don't understand this line of thought. | ||
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RyuSuzaku
Japan139 Posts
On March 17 2013 05:31 goodkarma wrote: Regarding Grey: I asked about grey because I could find very little about his meta. I know he hosts many games, but he doesn't seem to have played in many. Best I can tell so far, he seems very detached from this game, posting often, but saying very little... Having a look at his meta would really help, if anyone happens to know a game he has actually played in (and not hosted) I would love to look at it. @Mr. Wiggles: Sowy, but I'm not giving you any scumreads until I'm ready to. You claim I haven't been scumhunting, but if you were to look at my posting so far I have: 1) Worked towards establishing a pro-town atmosphere, a reasonable early goal 2) Been pushing others for reads to get a better understanding of their motives and thought process, which is very important to getting scumreads As far as cases go, which aren't the only component of scumhunting: As I said, when I'm ready. And I promise you it will be long before the end of the day. But what I'd recommend you to do right now is to focus some of your energies on getting others to participate (not everyone has even posted yet!), and pursue some of your other scumreads. Because tunneling one read, and going into lurker mode thereafter is in itself pretty scummy... @Ryu: Would you mind going a little more in depth on this case for me? From what I've seen in his past games, sandroba has been pretty lazy as both town and scum. The difference being the quality of his reads. From what I've seen so far, I'd say his assessments have been reasonable. What about his reads do you disagree with, or is this really just about his lazy posting style? it's mostly the interaction between greymist and sandroba. It felt forced-I am not entirely sure which player (or if both) are causing that feeling, or why. I want to hear sandroba and greymist explain themselves. Clearly greymist is around, but sandroba might not be. Greymist doesn't seem to care what sandroba thinks. | ||
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RyuSuzaku
Japan139 Posts
sandroba hasn't responded to my vote nor has he done anything since his initial comments. I think he has a very good likelihood of being scum because of this. I'd expect him to at least do something in the meantime, but he's simply lurking. While greymist is still a bit suspicious, he at the very least seems to have put in some effort toward finding scum. His target is not very great IMO, but at the very least he is not still lurking. | ||
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RyuSuzaku
Japan139 Posts
There are several major reasons; hopefully my quoting will help here. 1. Greymist excuses his lurking by saying that he was "setting a trap." I seriously doubt there was any sort of trap or intention behind the lurking, seeing as his entry post into the thread mentioned how busy he was. 2. When he was around, greymist didn't do anything other than respond to the host. Surely as a townie, if you know you are going to only be active for certain time periods, you will put effort into pushing your reads, or at least trying to make them. Lurking away your active periods sounds pretty antitown. I know at least for me personally, I do my best to read and post in order to solidify my reads during my active periods. 3. Greymist's posts come off as opportunistic. He accuses goodkarma of attacking "easy targets", yet he himself is guilty of attacking GK, someone I would classify as an easy target. GK also chose DarthPunk and sandroba as two of his four targets, both of which I would firmly classify as "not easy to lynch." GK gave fairly decent reasons for both, and those reasons are understandable from a GK-town perspective. For one, he acknowledges the differences in DP's play between this game and others in which he has played; this type of observation is characteristically rare for mafia players. The fact that greymist is not able to see these reasons is indicative of him being scum. 4. Greymist seems to be overly aware both of his own image and what the town in general thinks. There are a lot of questions to the effect of "what do people think of ____?" and also moments where he calls out players (knowingly) for things he himself is doing. To this end, I give you the following: On March 17 2013 14:38 GreYMisT wrote: Perfect, I was waiting for this! Does anyone else but me find this post odd? let me tell you why you should. First off. I have contributed about 0 things this game. Zilch. Nada. So much so that it honestly should be a null/leaning scum tell on me. Especially considering I have not been around for the last few hours or so. Its not like im spamming or trolling, I have been a non presence. Now normally this would be an OK pressure vote, if thats what this was. HOWEVER, he says that I am his number 1 scumread (he's willing to put a vote on me), saying that I have had ample opportunity to contribute, and am MORE than a lurker. What makes this an accusation post rather than just a defense post by me, however, is when we look at the rest of his reads. Instead of just pushing me and trying to convince town to get behind my lynch (something you can see every other town player doing, after all the goal of this game is to reach a majority on players), he goes on to make sure the town knows he MIGHT be swapping to another person, thereby setting himself up for a future vote swap. This is not only to mention the content of his reads here. Notice that he really doesn't have anything to say, and picks on the easy targets. More notably, is that he picks on targets with the same sins as me this game, yet not mentioning why he is voting me over them. I can tell you why, Its because my lack of thread presence, to a scum player, would basically have them salivating for a day 1 miss lynch. I am an easy, low risk lynch with almost no thread presence to back myself up. I find this post suspicious because it is a cookie cutter, "here are a few reads" post that has no interaction with other players, no real pushing, no new information, and in my eyes makes more sense from a scum perspective than a town one. I will be voting goodkarma until I can be convinced otherwise. Note that his response to GK is nothing more than OMGUS. I seriously doubt greymist was setting a trap, given that he himself said how busy he was. He also does exactly the same thing he accuses GK of doing. GK, to me, simply seemed to be stating his reads and his rationale. His rationale appears to be backed up by actual effort-from my independent efforts, I can confirm that much of what he wrote about these players' metas is, on the whole, true. On the other hand, greymist has put no such effort into verifying GK's assertions, nor does he do anything but dismiss GK's reads. In addition, he calls out GK for listing reads so he can allegedly later swap them, yet he basically does the same here: On March 18 2013 02:28 GreYMisT wrote: I'm still voting for goodkarma for the moment, but what do people think of WaveofShadow? I just went through his posts and noticed that literally the only thing he has done this game is discuss meta, and not in the good way. To me it seems as though he is yet another player promising an opinion and saying he will look into things, but preparing excuses for a later sheep. I'd like to see a vote from him soon. and here: On March 18 2013 02:42 GreYMisT wrote: layabout I did just look at DP's filter again, and noticied that he commented on the same post that I did of goodkarma's. Something strikes me as odd about that post, with him seemingly calling him out on it, but then giving a fairly weak reason why he doesnt want gk lynched. I am wary of such stances. and here: On March 18 2013 03:01 GreYMisT wrote: Kita I think its possible that vivax slipped up. I can definitely see that scenario happening in this game. I am not sure I am confident enough in the risk of lynching him based off only that though. Let me look over him for anything else. every time greymist posts a read, it's with very minimal effort-not something I would expect a townie to put forth. In addition, his posts are very opportunistic. He only does things under pressure, whether it be direct or indirect. He only attacked GK under the obvious pressure of a vote. Sandro had already claimed suspicion of greymist, but greymist brushed it off-it was only when others agreed with sandro did greymist take the opportunity to attack GK. When kita requested an opinion of greymist on vivax, he did nothing more than regurgitate kita's suspicions and dig up superficialities in how vivax responded. On March 18 2013 03:17 GreYMisT wrote: Alright kitaman, I'm willing to lynch vivax or gk today. I think vivax might be scum not only because of the slip, but because of his 2 posts where he responds to your pressure. One thing that strikes me is Vivax's explination of being sure.. He says he was "so sure it was yamato" but in his followup post he gives an extremely weak reason of being so certain. Also another small thing in addition to what kita pointed out, is this line "I think it's a stupid reason to lynch me although I would probably think something similar in your position. But if you do it, won't be my fault you lose something valuable." Its subtle, but Vivax is essentially blaming his slip on us, even though he says that he would think the same thing in our position. He says that it wouldnt be his fault, when it very clearly would be. I'm not going to mention why I find greymist to be incredibly suspicious after this last post, since I expect anyone reading thoroughly to be able to discern why. ##vote greymist | ||
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RyuSuzaku
Japan139 Posts
On March 18 2013 04:31 VisceraEyes wrote: I filtered you and decided I didn't want to lynch you. So I filtered someone else that layabout suggested. I don't see what the problem is. Could you maybe address my case instead of give bullshit association reasoning for not voting for DP? you should read my recently posted case on greymist. I'm probably not going to be back until maybe an hour before deadline, if at all, so I suggest that you all consider voting greymist. | ||
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RyuSuzaku
Japan139 Posts
Obviously I was wrong, but I'm town and I had completely valid reasons for attacking GM. On March 19 2013 03:19 DoYouHas wrote: Grrr, that was a painful role to lose. - I am still confident in my zarepath read from day 1, but that has been rehashed enough already, and it seems fruitless to pursue that further until there is more content or until we get to day2. - WOS hadn't really caught my eye as particularly suspicious until he started responding to post-flip pressure. I found that particularly scummy (something I will get into in my next post). - Ryu deserves a good bit of consideration. Remember when BH was attacking TPS for his tunnel on Coag, an unproductive target, and thought that he was using that tunnel to avoid other topics/being constructive? Well that is exactly what Ryu did day1, and it is a scummy trait. He pointed out 'fishy-ness' in the interaction between Sandro and GreY, speculated that they might both be scum, and never moved on from there. He pushed Sandro until Sandro's afk was explained, then he made a case on GreY. A case that, while described by a few people as 'good', contained 2 blatant misrepresentations+ Show Spoiler [Misrepresentations] + Misrepresentation #1: At no point does GreY refer to his "gotcha" moment on GK as a trap. Someone else described it that way, and it stuck. As someone doing a PBPA on GreY, Ryu should have seen this, but he didn't. Instead he runs with this 'setting a trap' mentality as something scummy GreY did, when GreY never actually showed that behavior. Lazy case making. Misrepresentation #2: Ryu describes GreY's response to GK as "nothing more than OMGUS", which it absolutely wasn't. This is completely false. I did not vocalize any of my other reads because they were not as sure as greymist. The longer I looked at the interaction between greymist and sandroba, the more I became sure that greymist was scum. I chose to ignore sandroba because he was going to be replaced-there's not much reason to attack a person you know will not even be around, and whose scummy traits were probably not motivated by alignment to begin with. My vote was on sandroba for quite a while until the replacement was announced (though it's not in the voting thread because I was not aware of it) Secondly, simply because greymist didn't literally call it a trap doesn't mean it was a trap. If you want to argue semantics, by all means, go ahead. Your point is moot, given that greymist himself said the words "Perfect. I was waiting for this!" Given that he was expecting such a reaction, it's only reasonable to assume he was trying to trap a scum. So he "never" showed that behavior, eh? This is not a misrepresentation. This is you looking for something where nothing exists. Misrepresentation #2: Ryu describes GreY's response to GK as "nothing more than OMGUS", which it absolutely wasn't., and at least 1 point which isn't a scumtell at all (#4). And that is it. That is all Ryu has done. He has displayed a scummy level of target focus in a day1 where tons of viable wagons were flying all over the place. [/spoiler]It was nothing more than OMGUS, unless you can find a better reason greymist had for attacking GK. None of his points were substantiated and I showed exactly why I think GK is town. This is convenient ignorance of what I posted. In fact, it's ignorance of almost everything that happened surrounding GK and GM. GM did not attack GK until GK showed suspicion of GM. That's textbook definition of OMGUS. Lastly, how exactly is pushing a case and seeking consolidation on a chaotic day 1 scummy? If that's your definition of scummy, I fear to see your other reads. Sadly I can't tell whether you are saying these things as a scum trying to push responsibility for a mislynch, or as a townie who is just bad. On March 19 2013 04:41 VisceraEyes wrote: Both of these quotes came from the guy who wrote the "super convincing case" against GreYMisT. I find this to be highly suspicious - at first he thinks they could both be scum, sandroba has done nothing between these posts, and suddenly sandroba is town worthy of a response? ##FoS Ryu I never assumed sandro to be town nor did I ever strongly feel him to be scum. I voted him to begin with to pressure him into explaining his reads. He obviously never did because he was afk the entire time. I ignored him after the replacement was announced. IIRC this was before the replacement was announced. I simply was surprised that a player would ignore sandro's accusation, given that he is widely accepted to be a very good town player. I misinterpreted the situation. Why are you cherry picking me? Are you scum? | ||
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RyuSuzaku
Japan139 Posts
On March 19 2013 05:34 RyuSuzaku wrote: Secondly, simply because greymist didn't literally call it a trap doesn't mean it was a trap. If you want to argue semantics, by all means, go ahead. Your point is moot, given that greymist himself said the words "Perfect. I was waiting for this!" EBWOP: Secondly, simply because greymist didn't literally call it a trap doesn't mean it wasn't a trap. If you want to argue semantics, by all means, go ahead. Your point is moot, given that greymist himself said the words "Perfect. I was waiting for this!" | ||
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RyuSuzaku
Japan139 Posts
On March 19 2013 05:42 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm working with the new information, being GreY's alignment. That lead me to filter the guy ultimately responsible for the GreY wagon, which led me to find posts referring to GreY. I'm not cherrypicking, I just pointed out something suspicious. Why do you say I'm cherrypicking you? Your GreYMisT push is the only significant thing you've done the whole game, why should I not use information from that flip to try and draw conclusions about your alignment? By all means, I think you should use new information. From my perspective, it's suspicious on your part to twist my words. That's what you "found" suspicious. It wasn't even my own words, just your spin on them. | ||
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RyuSuzaku
Japan139 Posts
On March 19 2013 05:51 VisceraEyes wrote: It's not my "spin" it's my "interpretation" that you were assuming he was town based on how you phrased your accusation of GreY. If I'm mistaken, feel free to correct me but instantly calling it suspicious is a little over the top. I guess I don't understand what is so suspicious of brushing off sandro's accusation of him. It was suspicious enough for you to vote him over, it was given without any kind of supporting reasoning. Why was it suspicious for GreY to brush off his accusation like that? I didn't vote him based on that. I thought it was suspicious because I would have expected a townie to try to explain himself instead of simply lurking away. I'd expect a scum to ignore an accusation from a strong player and simply hope it goes away. I expect townies to react at the very least. | ||
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RyuSuzaku
Japan139 Posts
On March 19 2013 06:17 VisceraEyes wrote: Explain himself for what? Sandroba's accusation was "Bullshit you're scum" Like...what were you expecting from him? Could it not be argued that if he HAD come back and explained himself he was needlessly defending himself against weak accusations? Why does it matter? Sandro doesn't often explain his reads more than that on day 1. Also, he wouldn't need to necessarily explain himself directly, he could have actually used the time he had to find scum. But, he didn't. Remember, when he was actually active, all he did was correct the host and lurk. You think that's a pro-town thing to do? And again, I didn't vote him for that alone, it was a little piece of several different things. | ||
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RyuSuzaku
Japan139 Posts
On March 19 2013 06:35 VisceraEyes wrote: But he didn't - he gave his thoughts on players when he was around. :/ It doesn't matter right now. I think you're suspicious because of your backing off of sandroba for no reason. You weren't suspicious of him for lurking, so him replacing shouldn't have changed your read of him from "scummy" to "null". You outlined reasoning for thinking Sandroba was suspicious and now suddenly you're not. You say you "never really felt strongly about sandroba for scum" but your votes and reasoning explicitly state otherwise. You say "sandroba doesn't often explain his reads more than that on day 1" but in the orignal post voting for him you cite "lack of reasoning" as your reason for disliking him more than GreY. I think your actions don't line up with your explanations, and the fact that you lurked all through the wagon building on GreY exacerbates my suspicion. I voted sandro to pressure him, I had no intention of lynching him based on his lack of reasoning. I didn't like his lack of reasoning. After the host said he was going to get replaced, I ignored him because you can't read a player who was not around to begin with. Whatever they do can be explained away by "oh he was busy IRL" I think you're taking my pressure vote a bit too seriously. Also, I didn't lurk through the greymist wagon building. I was at work and I even said that I would not be back. This is just a lie. (also, even if I was around, why would I bother doing anything? My target for lynch got lynched, and it was clear people agreed with me.) | ||
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RyuSuzaku
Japan139 Posts
On March 19 2013 07:04 DoYouHas wrote: + Show Spoiler [Ryu's long post] + On March 19 2013 05:34 RyuSuzaku wrote: well, that sucks. I was pretty convinced GM was scum given how suspicious he was acting. Pretty disappointing play from him, especially given his incredibly strong role. Obviously I was wrong, but I'm town and I had completely valid reasons for attacking GM. 1. This is completely false. I did not vocalize any of my other reads because they were not as sure as greymist. The longer I looked at the interaction between greymist and sandroba, the more I became sure that greymist was scum. I chose to ignore sandroba because he was going to be replaced-there's not much reason to attack a person you know will not even be around, and whose scummy traits were probably not motivated by alignment to begin with. My vote was on sandroba for quite a while until the replacement was announced (though it's not in the voting thread because I was not aware of it) 2. Secondly, simply because greymist didn't literally call it a trap doesn't mean it was a trap. If you want to argue semantics, by all means, go ahead. Your point is moot, given that greymist himself said the words "Perfect. I was waiting for this!" Given that he was expecting such a reaction, it's only reasonable to assume he was trying to trap a scum. So he "never" showed that behavior, eh? This is not a misrepresentation. This is you looking for something where nothing exists. 3. It was nothing more than OMGUS, unless you can find a better reason greymist had for attacking GK. None of his points were substantiated and I showed exactly why I think GK is town. This is convenient ignorance of what I posted. In fact, it's ignorance of almost everything that happened surrounding GK and GM. GM did not attack GK until GK showed suspicion of GM. That's textbook definition of OMGUS. 4. Lastly, how exactly is pushing a case and seeking consolidation on a chaotic day 1 scummy? If that's your definition of scummy, I fear to see your other reads. Sadly I can't tell whether you are saying these things as a scum trying to push responsibility for a mislynch, or as a townie who is just bad. I never assumed sandro to be town nor did I ever strongly feel him to be scum. I voted him to begin with to pressure him into explaining his reads. He obviously never did because he was afk the entire time. I ignored him after the replacement was announced. IIRC this was before the replacement was announced. I simply was surprised that a player would ignore sandro's accusation, given that he is widely accepted to be a very good town player. I misinterpreted the situation. Why are you cherry picking me? Are you scum? 1. - I am quite interested in what these other, not vocalized, reads are. Please elaborate. 2-3. - Originally I thought I had caught you here by getting you to state that GreY's attack on GK was both a trap and OMGUS, which wouldn't make any sense. HOWEVER, I decided to look back at your original case again to make sure I got my facts straight and it turns out that I made a mistake in my original assertions against you. And, because of my mistake, it revealed an inconsistency much larger than the simple contradiction I first mentioned. "Secondly, simply because greymist didn't literally call it a trap doesn't mean it wasn't a trap. If you want to argue semantics, by all means, go ahead. Your point is moot, given that greymist himself said the words "Perfect. I was waiting for this!" In Ryu's original case, he says twice that he doesn't believe the 'trap' explanation for GreY's post. He classifies GreY as opportunistic and picking on the easy targets. I was wrong when I said that Ryu had misrepresented GreY by endorsing the trap explanation. Yet Ryu doesn't point out the obvious flaw in how I was representing him, he accepts it and defends it. That is not the action of a tunneling townie who has been challenged on his past case. That is the action of a scum who is reacting to pressure. 4. - I think it is amusing that you convicted GreY on OMGUS, yet you bite back at both me and VE with "maybe you're scum" as soon as we pressure you. it obviously was a trap in retrospect because grey flipped town. I didn't believe it was a trap at the time. How is this contradictory at all? Grey said it was a trap-you claim it wasn't. I disbelieved that it was a trap, that he wanted it to look like one, but that it truly wasn't. He flipped town = he intended it to be a trap. No contradiction here. My statement of confusion over you and VE is me questioning my reads, because both of you are grossly misrepresenting me (you more than VE). I'm not going to post my reads at night, no use. | ||
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RyuSuzaku
Japan139 Posts
On March 19 2013 07:39 DoYouHas wrote: PS: I would still encourage you to share your reads, Ryu, regardless of it being night time. Scum will kill who scum will kill, getting information out so that we can discuss it as early as possible is much more to town advantage than it is to scum's. Now that you have effectively shot holes in my aggression towards you I very much would like to get into your thoughts on people other than GreY. no worries, I will post them right before deadline (assuming I don't fall asleep before then lol) | ||
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RyuSuzaku
Japan139 Posts
In case I die, please look into VE and TranceStorm in particular. Tentatively glurio may also be a good candidate for lynch. I reread to try and figure out why I misread greymist and what else I invariably got wrong, since I was very confident he was scum and I (foolishly) predicated some of my reads on him tentatively flipping red. I found VE relatively townie, for reasons I don't really remember. However, I think he is a great lynch for tomorrow given how much he has posted, but how little he has actually said. He also was very quick to push blame onto me following the lynch, even going so far as to say that I lurked my way through the wagon building. Firstly, that makes no sense, and secondly, he wasn't around at all either (and if he truly were interested in lynching someone other than grey, because he believed that GK or whoever was more likely to flip scum, perhaps he should have vocalized this before the lynch). I found that the most interesting-prior to lynch, there was a huge amount of time where VE said nothing at all. It was only after lynch that VE came into the thread to push blame onto the originator of the case (me). Aside from VE I think scum are probably lurking. VE's activity is lower than normal too, so it wouldn't surprise me if the whole scum team is lurking. glurio and TranceStorm in particular stand out as suspicious.I think TranceStorm is considerably more likely to flip scum than glurio though-at the very least some of glurio's posts have a hint of an abrasive, town-like attitude. In particular, notice TS's last post in the thread: it's not much more than an excuse for why he was a complete nonfactor all day, followed by a relatively weak suspicion of Wiggles. He also basically abstained, given that his vote was on DYH, someone who was, as far as I can remember, never a serious lynch candidate. Now, had he given off the impression that he wanted to push his read on DYH, I would be okay with him having relatively low activity. However, he did no such thing-most of his posts are low quality and are sympathetic toward a mafia-view of the game (e.g. the stuff he said about d1 and looking for differences in town/mafia play) His comments on lynch candidates are cursory at best: On March 18 2013 00:38 TranceStorm wrote: I have no reservations on a zarepath lynch. I have nothing to contribute on him beyond what others have already said. I think that DoYouHas is a stronger candidate however. This is all pending an explanation of the Vivax 'scumslip' though. and I never got the impression that he was interested in scumhunting. In fact, for most of the time that I was reading the game, I did not even realize that he was playing. Scum love to go unnoticed-then they don't have to deal with the pressure of faking reads. | ||
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RyuSuzaku
Japan139 Posts
Someone give me a brief synopsis of what I missed. I see stuff on the last page about VE being third party. I'll be back to post my thoughts when I'm done reading. | ||
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RyuSuzaku
Japan139 Posts
As for the third party is or is not scum debate, it's just semantics. Our goal is to kill all nontown players. Third party is nontown, and a free lynch on antitown should never be passed up. I'm in agreement with Ace, just kill VE. ##vote VisceraEyes Moving on: Trancestorm is still incredibly scummy. Note that despite saying he would be less busy today, and promising activity, he has been almost completely absent. The absence is not necessarily a problem in itself-it's the fact that his words don't actually align with what he is doing. He doesn't seem to be interested in scumhunting, despite saying that he will have more time to read and participate. He never makes any pushes at all himself despite encouraging another player to "simply out your suspicions". Compare: On March 20 2013 16:09 TranceStorm wrote: The implication you were driving at was that there were several mafia members driving the lynch. There is no need to be so vague in your questions. Just out your suspicions. On March 20 2013 00:22 TranceStorm wrote: @zarepath: in response to your town points (one of your posts is a response to Vivax). First, as to my lynch choice today. I have a choice to make between the case against TPS and against Mr. Wiggles (which I had pointed out first last night). For me, the compelling evidence against TPS seems to be his behavior in his very flimsy vote for GM last night and hasn't paid any lip service to the accusations leveled at him. My case against Wiggles has been responded to somewhat, if unconvincingly. In a decision between two scummy candidates, I have to the most likely one, in my opinion it is TPS. As to your second point, you are overgeneralizing. I was asked specifically for the case of zarepath, which I had read over and agreed with. That doesn't mean that any case that's presented to me will be something I agree with. On March 20 2013 15:11 TranceStorm wrote: The issue I currently have with your defense at the moment WOS is that it depends entirely on the fact that you, as you say, have historically played poorly in these circumstances and are doing so right now as well -> therefore you are not mafia. However, I don't think this forms a satisfactory defense and is far too reliant on 'meta' arguments. Just because you have behaved scummily in past games does not mean that we can give you a free pass when you behave scummily in this game! That's why we have to look at the particular circumstances of this game as our primary 'evidence'. You state that you didn't have particularly you didn't have any strong reads on D1 and wanted to be seen in a good light. I'm not so sure that is the case when I look back at your D1 posts: and here, as you yourself admit, we see that kita's arguments hold up pretty strongly. Do you have any particular response to kita's arguments beyond your meta? Another thing to note is that he goes with the thread sentiment at every step. Notice how he is against TPS/Wiggles when the conversation was primarily against those two players. Then, without any explanation whatsoever, he goes from TPS/Wiggles to WoS. That's strikingly suspicious given that his only mention of TPS after that post is in his last post (where he says if WoS is scum then TPS is not, which is not justified by anything) One last thing of importance: TranceStorm attacked DYH on day 1, and asserted that he did not ever drop the case on DYH. So, he went from DYH to TPS/Wiggles, to WoS, without any sort of explanation for the shift in reads each time. Each time, it seems as if he has simply gone with the flow to blend in. | ||
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RyuSuzaku
Japan139 Posts
On March 21 2013 05:00 VisceraEyes wrote: But I'm town Ryu. I'm not 3P. That's where you're whole post breaks down. You say you want to find scum, but you're voting to lynch a townie. So....? you're lying somewhere. Everyone in mafia will tell others that they are town. Your assertion that you are town makes no difference at all to my argument. | ||
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