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Some time ago, I started a thread about how to fix the concepts 3v3 and 4v4.
here: Fixing the concept of 3v3 and 4v4
At the heart of this effort, the motivation was to attract and retain the subset of gamers I termed 'the casual-tryhard'. The kind of gamer who is in it for more than just the social experience of playing a game with friends, but perhaps not quite so dedicated as the hardcore players striving for 1v1 mastery and ladder domination.
At the time, I suggested the idea of modifying non-1v1 games by creating maps that had More Resources Per Base (MRB), thinking that it would solve one horn of the dilemma of how to make SC2-melee-style games fun for the casual-tryhard that were not merely other games played in the SC2 client. (eg. Tower defence, hero arenas, etc).
While that hypothesis led to terran being imba in my weak and unscientific testing, a new avenue of attracting the casual try-hard has occurred to me based on recent developments seen on these forums.
In the past week or so, there have been discussions about adding persistent spell effects to competitive melee maps as a way to create new terrain advantages to supplement (the lack of) high ground advantage. Also, teleporters for troop movement in non-linear ways and so forth. But one of the concerns raised pertains to whether or not this might be too gimmicky for competitive, high-level play depending on the execution.
***
So it occurred to me: what if we created - and properly promoted - maps that were expressly gimmicky melee maps?
Not for competitive play necessarily, but for the other multiplayer modes that I suspect would interest casual-tryhards and their friends. Envision a 4v4 (or even a 1v1) kind of map where there was much more than just expansions, ramps and cliffs and xel'naga watch towers.
Imagine if there were things like 'warp fields' that you had to stabilize that, after some set of in-game tasks were completed - let you warp into your opponent's fortress? Or trigger-controlled 'natural disasters' that befall the playing field? Or 'recruitable' neutral units and bases?
They would definitely they be gimicky and they definitely would not be particuarly balanced from a competitive 1v1 standpoint. But would it be better than what 3v3 and 4v4 is now? Wouldn't it be 'fun'?
***
I'm going to go out on a limb / gut feeling and say that even among dedicated 1v1ers and TLers, there is an appetite for some goofy, melee-esque arcade games (though I don't mean here the degree of goofy of Day9's Trial of the Xelnaga or the (defunct?) Trollobattles).
And as we are well aware, map design and terraining can have a massive impact on the viability of various gameplay styles (gimmicky ones should be no different). Certain styles require certain features, and certain features preclude various other styles.
I believe this is an important point to consider, but not just for competitive play and for reasons other than that vague concept called 'balance'.
***
For example, just a little while ago, we saw the emergence of TriStar and ImbaCraft - two variations of the ubiquitous 'all-races' type mods that have existed since BW where all players have the ability to access all 3 races' tech trees.
But these kinds of mods have also existed since the start of SC2 as well. So, why then was TriStar so reveletory for many on TL if they existed - and still exist - on Bnet?
I suppose one might want to blame their deaths on the lack of exposure from Bnet's dubious popularity system prior to the introduction of the Arcade as part of the reason. But in BW, these kinds of maps had no trouble making the rounds - even before the days of social media, reddit and youtube.
I remember seeing things like 'all races mod - Arkan Citadel' back in late 2010. Arkan citadel I hate quite passionately since it is such a terrible map. Regardless of whether or not all races mod is fun, the fact that it was on a map where it was impossible to expand or defend would quickly make games not so fun.
As it pertains to TriStar mod, as fantastic a map as Cloud Kingdom may be for 1v1 games, are the maps these mods appear on simply not tailored to actualizing the potential insanity / epicness / fun that this mod can yield? (In much the same way how Blizzard's 3v3 and 4v4 maps are not designed well for fun and variety of gameplay).
Perhaps it is, and CK is just that good. But CK is but one map, and one only configurable for 1v1s, no matter how gimmicky or modified.
***
The editor is a powerful tool capable of creating game experiences completely unlike SC2 or even an RTS. It is almost no trouble at all to be able to do things like create customized melee games such as: all-race mods; all vs # AI; gimmicky-terrain melee; or BW-style team melee
Well, if I could figure out the triggers to make lobby teams -> game teams, they would be easy (I'm a data guy, I don't use triggers at all in my stuff).
What isn't easy is creating the gameboard on which these games can be best played.
While non-competitive map terrain might not need to be 'balanced' per se, but it is no less important that they be optimized for the kind of gameplay that one desires to promote: in this case, 'fun for the casual-tryhard.'
here: Fixing the concept of 3v3 and 4v4
At the heart of this effort, the motivation was to attract and retain the subset of gamers I termed 'the casual-tryhard'. The kind of gamer who is in it for more than just the social experience of playing a game with friends, but perhaps not quite so dedicated as the hardcore players striving for 1v1 mastery and ladder domination.
At the time, I suggested the idea of modifying non-1v1 games by creating maps that had More Resources Per Base (MRB), thinking that it would solve one horn of the dilemma of how to make SC2-melee-style games fun for the casual-tryhard that were not merely other games played in the SC2 client. (eg. Tower defence, hero arenas, etc).
While that hypothesis led to terran being imba in my weak and unscientific testing, a new avenue of attracting the casual try-hard has occurred to me based on recent developments seen on these forums.
In the past week or so, there have been discussions about adding persistent spell effects to competitive melee maps as a way to create new terrain advantages to supplement (the lack of) high ground advantage. Also, teleporters for troop movement in non-linear ways and so forth. But one of the concerns raised pertains to whether or not this might be too gimmicky for competitive, high-level play depending on the execution.
***
So it occurred to me: what if we created - and properly promoted - maps that were expressly gimmicky melee maps?
Not for competitive play necessarily, but for the other multiplayer modes that I suspect would interest casual-tryhards and their friends. Envision a 4v4 (or even a 1v1) kind of map where there was much more than just expansions, ramps and cliffs and xel'naga watch towers.
Imagine if there were things like 'warp fields' that you had to stabilize that, after some set of in-game tasks were completed - let you warp into your opponent's fortress? Or trigger-controlled 'natural disasters' that befall the playing field? Or 'recruitable' neutral units and bases?
They would definitely they be gimicky and they definitely would not be particuarly balanced from a competitive 1v1 standpoint. But would it be better than what 3v3 and 4v4 is now? Wouldn't it be 'fun'?
***
I'm going to go out on a limb / gut feeling and say that even among dedicated 1v1ers and TLers, there is an appetite for some goofy, melee-esque arcade games (though I don't mean here the degree of goofy of Day9's Trial of the Xelnaga or the (defunct?) Trollobattles).
And as we are well aware, map design and terraining can have a massive impact on the viability of various gameplay styles (gimmicky ones should be no different). Certain styles require certain features, and certain features preclude various other styles.
I believe this is an important point to consider, but not just for competitive play and for reasons other than that vague concept called 'balance'.
***
For example, just a little while ago, we saw the emergence of TriStar and ImbaCraft - two variations of the ubiquitous 'all-races' type mods that have existed since BW where all players have the ability to access all 3 races' tech trees.
But these kinds of mods have also existed since the start of SC2 as well. So, why then was TriStar so reveletory for many on TL if they existed - and still exist - on Bnet?
I suppose one might want to blame their deaths on the lack of exposure from Bnet's dubious popularity system prior to the introduction of the Arcade as part of the reason. But in BW, these kinds of maps had no trouble making the rounds - even before the days of social media, reddit and youtube.
I remember seeing things like 'all races mod - Arkan Citadel' back in late 2010. Arkan citadel I hate quite passionately since it is such a terrible map. Regardless of whether or not all races mod is fun, the fact that it was on a map where it was impossible to expand or defend would quickly make games not so fun.
As it pertains to TriStar mod, as fantastic a map as Cloud Kingdom may be for 1v1 games, are the maps these mods appear on simply not tailored to actualizing the potential insanity / epicness / fun that this mod can yield? (In much the same way how Blizzard's 3v3 and 4v4 maps are not designed well for fun and variety of gameplay).
Perhaps it is, and CK is just that good. But CK is but one map, and one only configurable for 1v1s, no matter how gimmicky or modified.
***
The editor is a powerful tool capable of creating game experiences completely unlike SC2 or even an RTS. It is almost no trouble at all to be able to do things like create customized melee games such as: all-race mods; all vs # AI; gimmicky-terrain melee; or BW-style team melee
Well, if I could figure out the triggers to make lobby teams -> game teams, they would be easy (I'm a data guy, I don't use triggers at all in my stuff).
What isn't easy is creating the gameboard on which these games can be best played.
While non-competitive map terrain might not need to be 'balanced' per se, but it is no less important that they be optimized for the kind of gameplay that one desires to promote: in this case, 'fun for the casual-tryhard.'
tl;dr
Wouldn't it be epic if there were some non-competitive melee games that had awesome, non-blizzard maps that had whacky features like teleporters, neutral blinding clouds, heal zones and evasion up zones, etc?
Or what about all-race mods or team play mods, but with terrain designed for that kind of play?
You figure it might be good for some melee-esque SC2 fun when on break from 1v1 conquering and good for the game overall since you attract and retain more players.
