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[M] (4) TPW Sand Castles

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
lefix
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany1082 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-17 12:33:16
November 21 2012 14:21 GMT
#1
[image loading]
WoL Version: + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


TPW Sand Castles
by lefix
Map Size: 154x154
Tileset: Phaeton
Spawns: 4
Bases: 16
Published: HotS (Beta), NA

About:
My second HotS map. This tileset didn't come with many doodads, hopefully that'll change in the future

Screenshots:
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]

Map of the Month | The Planetary Workshop | SC2Melee.net
Aunvilgod
Profile Joined December 2011
2653 Posts
November 21 2012 14:28 GMT
#2
The terrain in front of the 3rd is pretty cool, maybe you are able to defend from there. Fuck 4 player maps though.
ilovegroov | Blizzards mapmaker(s?) suck ass | #1 Protoss hater
Veloh15
Profile Joined January 2012
United States161 Posts
November 21 2012 14:37 GMT
#3
This is really well thought out! If you haven't already I would post this to Reddit they will get a kick out of it. I really like this, but I'm not sure how possible it is to attack into the 3rd. It reminds me of the Daybreak 3rd, but it was on the low ground. Still that being said the 4th is brilliantly placed, and seems take-able and defend-able. I am concerned about doom drops into the 3rd from main and vise versa. Are all spawns enabled?
Aunvilgod
Profile Joined December 2011
2653 Posts
November 21 2012 15:44 GMT
#4
The 4th may be too safe. You hardly need any army movement to defend it.
ilovegroov | Blizzards mapmaker(s?) suck ass | #1 Protoss hater
lefix
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany1082 Posts
November 21 2012 16:06 GMT
#5
Well, let me explain my thoughts on army movement on this map. Obviously, there are quite a for nice chokes to intercept attacking armies. if you take 4 bases, there are 3 possible entrances towards your3rd/4th. however, the defending army has a very slightly longer way to reach all 3 entrances, since it needs to move back a little to get up and down the highground. so either the defender is forced to spread his units apart or the attacker will eventually be able to enter your quarter of the map.

The third base is even trickier. The attacking army on the low ground has both ramps very close, while the defending army has to go a long way around to fully protect the nat and third. it is almost impossible to stop the attacking from coming up your highground.

Imho, both scenarios encourage splitting up units and lots of army movement. It's not neccesarily about the distance netweem the chokes, but their alignment and what kind of engagements the suggest. Overall I am pretty happy with this layout.[image loading]
Map of the Month | The Planetary Workshop | SC2Melee.net
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
November 21 2012 17:21 GMT
#6
Reminds me of Sidewinder. :p

Also, quit making maps so fast, I haven't finished any yet.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
a176
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada6688 Posts
November 21 2012 17:27 GMT
#7
On November 22 2012 02:21 NewSunshine wrote:
Reminds me of Sidewinder. :p

Also, quit making maps so fast, I haven't finished any yet.


yep. i like the terrain layout in this one a bit better though.
starleague forever
chuky500
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
France473 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-21 17:31:15
November 21 2012 17:29 GMT
#8
This map is better than the previous one but the 3rds look too far. What you call 3 chokes are in fact 2 chokes because 2 paths lead to the same place so that's where the fight would happen. I think the high ground 3rd is better because the layout dissuades double front attacks. On 3 bases you can just keep all your army on the high ground and it covers the 3rd and the natural. So the attacker will just attack with all his army and it won't be very dynamic.

And if 2 players are in close position 1 is unfavored because his 3rd will be either wide open and on the low ground, or easy to get dropped. While the other will have an easier 3rd to defend. Overall I don't like 4 player maps because it adds a lot of randomness to the game. If you scout you're opponent's base last you have no idea what he's doing and when you get there you have no idea if he expanded first and you're too late to see if gas were taken because an army is already there. In PvT you have to play completely blind and expand before seeing what the other does, and if it's a 3 rax or an early timing push and you've expanded you've lost. Same thing if you're playing defensive and he's playing greedy. And in PvZ you have 2/3 chances you won't be able to scout an early pool so you have to play defensive, allowing the zerg to be greedy and if he's at the last position you'll discover a double hatch first. That's the main reason why tournaments force cross position, to have consistent games and reduce the randomness.
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
November 21 2012 17:40 GMT
#9
That's it. From now on, I'm calling this a lefix ramp.

[image loading]


The clockwise player can defend their 3rd from the lefix ramp, and this also puts them much closer to the watchtower making it easier to control. But, maybe this is compensation that they also have to expand towards the opponent.
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
SiskosGoatee
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Albania1482 Posts
November 21 2012 18:24 GMT
#10
On November 22 2012 02:40 EatThePath wrote:
That's it. From now on, I'm calling this a lefix ramp.

[image loading]
Ahaha, I knew I couldn't be the only one to notice this pattern.
WCS Apartheid cometh, all hail the casual audience, death to merit and hard work.
lefix
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany1082 Posts
November 21 2012 18:35 GMT
#11
maybe i have spent too much time skating as a teenager :D
Map of the Month | The Planetary Workshop | SC2Melee.net
DontNerfInfestors
Profile Joined August 2012
Spain280 Posts
November 21 2012 18:36 GMT
#12
Great, but remove a few chokes.
Please dont nerf them.Infestors are fine.
Aunvilgod
Profile Joined December 2011
2653 Posts
November 21 2012 18:46 GMT
#13
On November 22 2012 01:06 lefix wrote:
Well, let me explain my thoughts on army movement on this map. Obviously, there are quite a for nice chokes to intercept attacking armies. if you take 4 bases, there are 3 possible entrances towards your3rd/4th. however, the defending army has a very slightly longer way to reach all 3 entrances, since it needs to move back a little to get up and down the highground. so either the defender is forced to spread his units apart or the attacker will eventually be able to enter your quarter of the map.

The third base is even trickier. The attacking army on the low ground has both ramps very close, while the defending army has to go a long way around to fully protect the nat and third. it is almost impossible to stop the attacking from coming up your highground.

Imho, both scenarios encourage splitting up units and lots of army movement. It's not neccesarily about the distance netweem the chokes, but their alignment and what kind of engagements the suggest. Overall I am pretty happy with this layout.[image loading]


I am not completely convinced. Could you show us the range of a siege line at the center choke?
ilovegroov | Blizzards mapmaker(s?) suck ass | #1 Protoss hater
lefix
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany1082 Posts
November 21 2012 18:52 GMT
#14
On November 22 2012 03:46 Aunvilgod wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2012 01:06 lefix wrote:
Well, let me explain my thoughts on army movement on this map. Obviously, there are quite a for nice chokes to intercept attacking armies. if you take 4 bases, there are 3 possible entrances towards your3rd/4th. however, the defending army has a very slightly longer way to reach all 3 entrances, since it needs to move back a little to get up and down the highground. so either the defender is forced to spread his units apart or the attacker will eventually be able to enter your quarter of the map.

The third base is even trickier. The attacking army on the low ground has both ramps very close, while the defending army has to go a long way around to fully protect the nat and third. it is almost impossible to stop the attacking from coming up your highground.

Imho, both scenarios encourage splitting up units and lots of army movement. It's not neccesarily about the distance netweem the chokes, but their alignment and what kind of engagements the suggest. Overall I am pretty happy with this layout.[image loading]


I am not completely convinced. Could you show us the range of a siege line at the center choke?


[image loading]
Map of the Month | The Planetary Workshop | SC2Melee.net
Aunvilgod
Profile Joined December 2011
2653 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-21 18:56:27
November 21 2012 18:53 GMT
#15
On November 22 2012 03:52 lefix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2012 03:46 Aunvilgod wrote:
On November 22 2012 01:06 lefix wrote:
Well, let me explain my thoughts on army movement on this map. Obviously, there are quite a for nice chokes to intercept attacking armies. if you take 4 bases, there are 3 possible entrances towards your3rd/4th. however, the defending army has a very slightly longer way to reach all 3 entrances, since it needs to move back a little to get up and down the highground. so either the defender is forced to spread his units apart or the attacker will eventually be able to enter your quarter of the map.

The third base is even trickier. The attacking army on the low ground has both ramps very close, while the defending army has to go a long way around to fully protect the nat and third. it is almost impossible to stop the attacking from coming up your highground.

Imho, both scenarios encourage splitting up units and lots of army movement. It's not neccesarily about the distance netweem the chokes, but their alignment and what kind of engagements the suggest. Overall I am pretty happy with this layout.[image loading]


I am not completely convinced. Could you show us the range of a siege line at the center choke?


[image loading]


Oh hi Antiga how are you doing?
And just to note, this is not necessarily a bad feature.
ilovegroov | Blizzards mapmaker(s?) suck ass | #1 Protoss hater
SiskosGoatee
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Albania1482 Posts
November 21 2012 19:04 GMT
#16
I would personally not care to stand behind the any of the chokes to protect four bases, I'd just stand in front of the crevasse at the low ground expo and defend everything from there. Couple of tanks there and I got my sweet 8gas to mech from.
WCS Apartheid cometh, all hail the casual audience, death to merit and hard work.
lefix
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany1082 Posts
November 21 2012 19:07 GMT
#17
but then you'd still be vulnerable to any form of air harass in your main/nat.
and this map encourages getting at least some air units
Map of the Month | The Planetary Workshop | SC2Melee.net
Fatam
Profile Joined June 2012
1986 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-21 19:57:33
November 21 2012 19:57 GMT
#18
I like this map if it's cross-spawns only.

4 bases is sorrrt of easy to defend, but I don't think every map should have the exact same ease/difficulty of defense as the others, so I'm cool with that.

Pretty cool.
Search "FTM" in SC2 | Latest Maps: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/528528-2-ftm-siegfried-station http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/525489-2-ftm-crimson-aftermath http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/524737-2-ftm-grime
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
November 21 2012 20:24 GMT
#19
On November 22 2012 04:57 Fatam wrote:
I like this map if it's cross-spawns only.

I see no particular reason why it should be.

I should say I'd like to see a new terrain feature from you though, that ramp formation's been all over the place. Just a style thing, but it bumps me.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
Aunvilgod
Profile Joined December 2011
2653 Posts
November 21 2012 20:59 GMT
#20
On November 22 2012 05:24 NewSunshine wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2012 04:57 Fatam wrote:
I like this map if it's cross-spawns only.

I see no particular reason why it should be.


If players spawn next to each other, when they meet halfway through the rush distance, one player has high ground advantage. Also, at 4 bases the exact same player has his 4th either way more open or much closer to the center AND on the low ground.
ilovegroov | Blizzards mapmaker(s?) suck ass | #1 Protoss hater
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