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In this thread we FEEDBACK the mods of TL.
I've been a long time member and this has gone on long enough. It is a problem so I am making a thread to discuss it.
In this thread
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376644
it started out with a guy making a joke about asians by typing r instead of l. He get temp ban. Then some people post asking why was he ban and THEY get ban.
I want the MOD who ban them to post in this thread explaining why such a ban was given. I read their posts and I don't see why they should be ban at all. I've read FAR WORSE post that was allowed on TL. Who was the mod that ban these people?
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Thanks for the link. I made this thread not just to find out the info. It's to discuss. A warning might be better than a ban for such a small "violation". They were posting about a reply to the thread. So it is related to the thread itself is it not?
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United States41973 Posts
Those who were new and maybe didn't know about the website feedback were given a warning which basically doesn't mean anything other than "this is how we do it on tl, note on your history so if you keep getting it wrong we know". The older posters who were bitching about moderation in the topic rather than talking to the moderators themselves or posting in website feedback should have known better. Bans were handed out based upon that and user history. It is never acceptable to bitch about the moderation in the topic, it just becomes a big off topic argument between people like yourself who have no clue about the process.
To reiterate. Moderation should be discussed with the moderators and channels exist for that. Use them.
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United States41973 Posts
Also if you read the topic you'd have seen he got a warning for his "Asians can't say 'l'" joke. The bans were for the off topic "moderation sucks" shit and are completely standard. Instead what you did was see the lockdown icon and red text and make stupid and incorrect assumptions about moderation and then post them in the topic right after 3 guys got banned for that exact shit. If I'd seen your post I'd have banned you too. People making the same mistake you did are exactly why we don't like random people whose understanding of the situation is so poor that they don't even read the difference between "user was warned" and "user was banned" weighing in on what you think in the topic. Look in a mirror, the reason for the bans is you.
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1. THIS IS OUR HOUSE
You are our guests. We will make all attempts to treat everyone with due respect and to accommodate everyone's wishes as far as reasonably possible...we run the site the way we see fit. We are not obligated to observe anyone's notions of "free speech" or even "fairness." We try of course... But, we have our limits. If we don't like you, we simply ban you.
2. THOU SHALL OBSERVE FORUM ETIQUETTE
Tasteless jokes at the expense of someone's race, gender, or sexual orientation are not acceptable. Nobody likes to be called a name.
3. THOU SHALL THINK BEFORE POSTING
If they ban someone, there was probably a very good reason for it. If you believe a certain ban was a mistake, you can contact a Mod through PM or in our IRC channel, but please be respectful about it. Do not take things into your own hands... You PM Moderators to let them know about specific posts or threads, but let them handle it after that.
Welcome to the Teamliquid House.
+ Show Spoiler +
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I'm pretty sure there's a rule somewhere against racist jokes?
And a lot of those guys in the thread should have known better, whining and bitching about bans isn't going to help your case rofl
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United States41973 Posts
Banned him for being an idiot about how he approached this in the general topic but if anyone agrees with him they can feel free to post here. Website feedback is a safe place where we can all share our feelings.
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On October 20 2012 13:19 Whatson wrote:1. THIS IS OUR HOUSE You are our guests. We will make all attempts to treat everyone with due respect and to accommodate everyone's wishes as far as reasonably possible...we run the site the way we see fit. We are not obligated to observe anyone's notions of "free speech" or even "fairness." We try of course... But, we have our limits. If we don't like you, we simply ban you. 2. THOU SHALL OBSERVE FORUM ETIQUETTE Tasteless jokes at the expense of someone's race, gender, or sexual orientation are not acceptable. Nobody likes to be called a name. 3. THOU SHALL THINK BEFORE POSTING If they ban someone, there was probably a very good reason for it. If you believe a certain ban was a mistake, you can contact a Mod through PM or in our IRC channel, but please be respectful about it. Do not take things into your own hands... You PM Moderators to let them know about specific posts or threads, but let them handle it after that. Welcome to the Teamliquid House. + Show Spoiler +
I hate when people quote this because it's kind of insulting and a bit inaccurate. While yes, TL could feasibly ban you for any stupid reason under the our house part, that is never the mentality that should be taken. At the end the mods try to be fair and do what they can, and while I get you are trying to support them, doing so under the premise of "our rules or GTFO" being the justification used is kind of insulting to them as a whole.
I did read the thread, and I remember thinking his gripe was worded properly and probably just deserved another warning, not a ban. His first comment he got a warning for the warning was not specific as he quoted it, then he got banned for complaining about it. That is kind of silly, a warning would of been much more fair.
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United States8476 Posts
On October 20 2012 14:12 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 13:19 Whatson wrote:1. THIS IS OUR HOUSE You are our guests. We will make all attempts to treat everyone with due respect and to accommodate everyone's wishes as far as reasonably possible...we run the site the way we see fit. We are not obligated to observe anyone's notions of "free speech" or even "fairness." We try of course... But, we have our limits. If we don't like you, we simply ban you. 2. THOU SHALL OBSERVE FORUM ETIQUETTE Tasteless jokes at the expense of someone's race, gender, or sexual orientation are not acceptable. Nobody likes to be called a name. 3. THOU SHALL THINK BEFORE POSTING If they ban someone, there was probably a very good reason for it. If you believe a certain ban was a mistake, you can contact a Mod through PM or in our IRC channel, but please be respectful about it. Do not take things into your own hands... You PM Moderators to let them know about specific posts or threads, but let them handle it after that. Welcome to the Teamliquid House. + Show Spoiler + I hate when people quote this because it's kind of insulting and a bit inaccurate. While yes, TL could feasibly ban you for any stupid reason under the our house part, that is never the mentality that should be taken. At the end the mods try to be fair and do what they can, and while I get you are trying to support them, doing so under the premise of "our rules or GTFO" being the justification used is kind of insulting to them as a whole. I did read the thread, and I remember thinking his gripe was worded properly and probably just deserved another warning, not a ban. His first comment he got a warning for the warning was not specific as he quoted it, then he got banned for complaining about it. That is kind of silly, a warning would of been much more fair.
I gave the first warning, but I agree that the ban was 100% justified. In retrospect, it should have been a ban but I wanted him to make a good thread in website feedback first. Calling people "nazis" and telling them/us to "eat shit" is definitely ban-able, especially giving his history of the same offenses.
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United States41973 Posts
On October 20 2012 14:12 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 13:19 Whatson wrote:1. THIS IS OUR HOUSE You are our guests. We will make all attempts to treat everyone with due respect and to accommodate everyone's wishes as far as reasonably possible...we run the site the way we see fit. We are not obligated to observe anyone's notions of "free speech" or even "fairness." We try of course... But, we have our limits. If we don't like you, we simply ban you. 2. THOU SHALL OBSERVE FORUM ETIQUETTE Tasteless jokes at the expense of someone's race, gender, or sexual orientation are not acceptable. Nobody likes to be called a name. 3. THOU SHALL THINK BEFORE POSTING If they ban someone, there was probably a very good reason for it. If you believe a certain ban was a mistake, you can contact a Mod through PM or in our IRC channel, but please be respectful about it. Do not take things into your own hands... You PM Moderators to let them know about specific posts or threads, but let them handle it after that. Welcome to the Teamliquid House. + Show Spoiler + I hate when people quote this because it's kind of insulting and a bit inaccurate. While yes, TL could feasibly ban you for any stupid reason under the our house part, that is never the mentality that should be taken. At the end the mods try to be fair and do what they can, and while I get you are trying to support them, doing so under the premise of "our rules or GTFO" being the justification used is kind of insulting to them as a whole. I did read the thread, and I remember thinking his gripe was worded properly and probably just deserved another warning, not a ban. His first comment he got a warning for the warning was not specific as he quoted it, then he got banned for complaining about it. That is kind of silly, a warning would of been much more fair.
His objection in the topic was "WHY IS THIS GUY BAN?! Who is the NAZI MOD? FUCK YOU BITCH. GO EAT SHIT". Autoban material. He then made a shitty "mods = nazis" topic in general. He has an awful moderation history and has actually been permabanned for a year before. His moderation history is a page long, it's like Idra levels without the rabid fanclub.
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Not toopham, that guy is stupid.
On October 20 2012 08:10 Supamang wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 08:05 Pseudoku wrote:On October 20 2012 08:03 DownOnMyNiece wrote:On October 20 2012 07:00 Supamang wrote:
Is he the captain of the Mirrenium Farcon? hehehe
User was warned for this post Why does that Star Wars joke get warned? Han Solo, hilarious! I don't see anything wrong here.  The 'r's That's ridiculous. I've seen pictures by Manit0u in the funny pictures thread making jokes about black people not being able to read and he goes unscathed. I see a thread devoted bashing religion simply because they protest on their own private property about abortion, the creator went unwarned. I PMd the guy who warned me because I honestly don't know why I was warned, all he said was "dont do this". If it really is the whole switching of Rs and Ls, then im disappointed. I've stood up against racism against Asians (my own race) enough in my own life to be able to recognize real racism from harmless fun. Edit: I take more offense to people in this entire site claiming to know about Asian culture purely on Koreans' SC2 work ethic than an obviously stupid joke about the pronunciation of Rs or Ls. User was temp banned for this post.
I was referring to this. The guy who made this thread obviously deserved a ban, I don't even know how you guys gave him 3 chances lol.
On October 20 2012 13:07 toopham wrote:In this thread we FEEDBACK the mods of TL. I've been a long time member and this has gone on long enough. It is a problem so I am making a thread to discuss it. In this thread http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376644it started out with a guy making a joke about asians by typing r instead of l. He get temp ban. Then some people post asking why was he ban and THEY get ban. I want the MOD who ban them to post in this thread explaining why such a ban was given. I read their posts and I don't see why they should be ban at all. I've read FAR WORSE post that was allowed on TL. Who was the mod that ban these people?
I just reread this and laughed at the text in bold. If only he purposely made the BW pun.
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On October 20 2012 13:28 KwarK wrote:
Banned him for being an idiot about how he approached this in the general topic but if anyone agrees with him they can feel free to post here. Website feedback is a safe place where we can all share our feelings.
Sometimes I think the fire has blown out of our relationship. You don't even ask me how my day went anymore and you didn't even take me to a movie last weekend..
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On October 20 2012 14:46 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Not toopham, that guy is stupid. Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 08:10 Supamang wrote:On October 20 2012 08:05 Pseudoku wrote:On October 20 2012 08:03 DownOnMyNiece wrote:On October 20 2012 07:00 Supamang wrote:
Is he the captain of the Mirrenium Farcon? hehehe
User was warned for this post Why does that Star Wars joke get warned? Han Solo, hilarious! I don't see anything wrong here. The 'r's That's ridiculous. I've seen pictures by Manit0u in the funny pictures thread making jokes about black people not being able to read and he goes unscathed. I see a thread devoted bashing religion simply because they protest on their own private property about abortion, the creator went unwarned. I PMd the guy who warned me because I honestly don't know why I was warned, all he said was "dont do this". If it really is the whole switching of Rs and Ls, then im disappointed. I've stood up against racism against Asians (my own race) enough in my own life to be able to recognize real racism from harmless fun. Edit: I take more offense to people in this entire site claiming to know about Asian culture purely on Koreans' SC2 work ethic than an obviously stupid joke about the pronunciation of Rs or Ls. User was temp banned for this post. I was referring to this.
I agree with the mods here. It's one thing to be warned for a thoughtless joke in poor taste. But then he decided to make an issue of it, publicly. That's whining, back-seat moderating, and off-topic, a hat-trick.
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On October 20 2012 13:28 KwarK wrote:
Banned him for being an idiot about how he approached this in the general topic but if anyone agrees with him they can feel free to post here. Website feedback is a safe place where we can all share our feelings.
KwarK is a sexy beast, and I have feelings of strong humor related sexual attraction whenever there's a new feedback thread about him.
Am I sharing my feelings right? And do I need to do another blog on sensitivity?
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On October 20 2012 22:08 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 13:28 KwarK wrote:
Banned him for being an idiot about how he approached this in the general topic but if anyone agrees with him they can feel free to post here. Website feedback is a safe place where we can all share our feelings. KwarK is a sexy beast, and I have feelings of strong humor related sexual attraction whenever there's a new feedback thread about him. Am I sharing my feelings right? And do I need to do another blog on sensitivity?
I think you mistake for personal hypocrisy something more intractable and inchoate about this forum.
That the moderation has become pedestrian and martinent in the past decade, is so. That the poor and uninitiated newcomers can no longer breathe as freely without looking over their shoulders and guarding their lips is also true to some extent. The hypocrisy is the intractable hypocrisy of generations. The founding fathers have grown old, lost their passion but retained their advantage in being one step ahead in the lessons of life, and are eager to restrain the romp and riot of their former selves.
It is inevitable when a clan grows too large and too old that it loses its folkish charms and becomes encumbered with the machinery of a bureaucratic republic. So has it happened with tl.net. My best years of online interation with the SC community were before 2004, before I joined tl.net, on a completely unmoderated forum with 100-150 regulars, among whom the more dedicated were the chieftains, but who were backbone of the community rather than its policemen.
Consequently I've always appreciated the approach that Drone took to moderating tl.net in those early days, though I have always abstained from having an opinion in such matters, generally speaking.
P.S. The other consideration is my personal inclination: sometime after 2001 the casuals who played the game left the game, and we were left with the awful deterioration of manners in the online gaming community, who betimes would take great troubles to affect pseudo-Korean bearings. I am probably one of a few people who ceased taking SC/BW seriously thereafter, but channeled my interest in other directions, including taking an amateur interest in professional gaming, which again ceased with the decline of the professional scene a few years ago. For a brief period after 2010, the casuals were back, and all kinds of normal people, including your girlfriend's little sister were playing your game. This time though you are no longer an ingenue and could no longer look upon gaming virginity with a charitable heart.
A fair description of tl.net's social millieu: bunch of normal kids being chaperoned by a bunch of grown-ups with abnormal childhoods is probably broadly right.
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A point that was made but never addressed was the fact that the poster Manitou has repeatedly gotten away with posting overtly racist content in the SFW pics thread. It does seem strange compared to Tl's strict moderation in general that he gets away unscathed.
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United States41973 Posts
On October 21 2012 00:06 Nothingtosay wrote:
A point that was made but never addressed was the fact that the poster Manitou has repeatedly gotten away with posting overtly racist content in the SFW pics thread. It does seem strange compared to Tl's strict moderation in general that he gets away unscathed.
Report the posts, ideally explaining why you feel they should be dealt with in the report. If insufficient action is taken then either PM a moderator directly with links to the offending posts to discuss them or make a website feedback.
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On October 20 2012 23:55 MoltkeWarding wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 22:08 JingleHell wrote:On October 20 2012 13:28 KwarK wrote:
Banned him for being an idiot about how he approached this in the general topic but if anyone agrees with him they can feel free to post here. Website feedback is a safe place where we can all share our feelings. KwarK is a sexy beast, and I have feelings of strong humor related sexual attraction whenever there's a new feedback thread about him. Am I sharing my feelings right? And do I need to do another blog on sensitivity? I think you mistake for personal hypocrisy something more intractable and inchoate about this forum. That the moderation has become pedestrian and martinent in the past decade, is so. That the poor and uninitiated newcomers can no longer breathe as freely without looking over their shoulders and guarding their lips is also true to some extent. The hypocrisy is the intractable hypocrisy of generations. The founding fathers have grown old, lost their passion but retained their advantage in being one step ahead in the lessons of life, and are eager to restrain the romp and riot of their former selves. It is inevitable when a clan grows too large and too old that it loses its folkish charms and becomes encumbered with the machinery of a bureaucratic republic. So has it happened with tl.net. My best years of online interation with the SC community were before 2004, before I joined tl.net, on a completely unmoderated forum with 100-150 regulars, among whom the more dedicated were the chieftains, but who were backbone of the community rather than its policemen. Consequently I've always appreciated the approach that Drone took to moderating tl.net in those early days, though I have always abstained from having an opinion in such matters, generally speaking. P.S. The other consideration is my personal inclination: sometime after 2001 the casuals who played the game left the game, and we were left with the awful deterioration of manners in the online gaming community, who betimes would take great troubles to affect pseudo-Korean bearings. I am probably one of a few people who ceased taking SC/BW seriously thereafter, but channeled my interest in other directions, including taking an amateur interest in professional gaming, which again ceased with the decline of the professional scene a few years ago. For a brief period after 2010, the casuals were back, and all kinds of normal people, including your girlfriend's little sister were playing your game. This time though you are no longer an ingenue and could no longer look upon gaming virginity with a charitable heart. A fair description of tl.net's social millieu: bunch of normal kids being chaperoned by a bunch of grown-ups with abnormal childhoods is probably broadly right.
lol in common English please?
You sound like an english professor who uses big words in an out-of-context setting.
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This is the worst case of moderation since Carlodajin IMO. When you make a mistake in moderating, the community will let it be known rules be damned. And when the error is as clear as this case, you'll have to ban at least 10 members all of which could be avoided by not making an unwarranted moderation to begin with.
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EPT
