EPTLooney Lynching Mini Mafia
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Mementoss
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On October 10 2012 14:27 EchelonTee wrote: Hey guys, been a while. I agree with what Sandroba has been saying thus far. While I see the sensibility of HiroPro's plan (everyone votes on each matchup, 1 vote max), there are a few issues with it (which sandroba has stated somewhat). 1. It gives "credibility" to people who are knocked out early, while not forcing them to do anything significant. A good good good example of this problem was in Liar Game 1. Basically half of the people were immune to the lynch depending on a Yes or No vote; while town tried to make the immune people accountable for their actions, because they have no fear of the lynch they really have no pressure on them to do anything at all. A hilarious example is sandroba himself; despite being widely called scum since D1, because he was immune to lynch through flukes, he stayed alive for days manipulating people here and there. If we force everyone to vote on everything, the knocked out people can make random reasons for their votes and look active. However, if we don't force everyone to vote on everything, knocked out people will have to talk about things on their own prerogative, exposing their true intentions. 2. It will lead to a bunch of laundry lists of "analysis" which doesn't help anything. If people have to vote on 7+ matchups, while it will put a bunch of content into the thread, it gives an easy out for mafia to look "active". All they have to do is say something like "I like persons X, Y, and Z because of yada yada yada. I don't like person M because he only voted for 4 matchups! What's he hiding??". Basically, this plan would put a huge flood of info without much actual substance. 3. This diffuses the town's vote, making it easier for scum to do as they please. Remember, the vote is the town's strongest tool; we out number mafia's votes 9x. However if townsfolk are forced to only have one vote per matchup, then if they see someone they really think is scummy, they won't be "allowed" to stack more votes on them because of this limitation. Overall, while I do like the initiative to give structure to the voting process, ultimately I think it does more harm than good. What should happen is standard, good old fashioned scum-hunting; people should just up and state who they think is scum and put their votes to back it up. Speaking of which: Please feel free to post things of substance. You're being needlessly dismissive, which is strange because 1. it's very early in the game, people ask questions 2. you haven't done anything, so to put down someone else just feels off. It's been a decent amount of time in the game and you've shown that you're available; why not comment on the setup at all? I don't want you having a free pass for the rest of this tourny; I want to see you talk more. Hopeless1der 2x On October 10 2012 14:32 EchelonTee wrote: Not going to put my vote into voting thread just yet, until I'm sure of all votes for this round, to make things easier for kita. Is the ratio of town:mafia known, or unknown? Guy, I wanted you to be town, why did you have to scum slip. For those that didn't catch it, ET implies he knows that how much more votes town has compared to mafia, implying he knows how many mafia there is. Minutes later, he asks if mafia count is known. Where did he get this number in the first place? I don't think he would just make it up out of thin air. EchelonTee x1 | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + @ET 9 to 3 would 3x as many votes BTW | ||
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On October 10 2012 20:40 sandroba wrote: @da0ud Yes, those people are at disavantage. How is that relevant to who is scum or not? @prpl You are my best scum read so far, how do you feel about that <3 @mementoss Don't be stupid. Town# > Mafia# by default. That's the dumbest shit I've read so far and let me tell you there is plenty dumb shit about. He had a specific number in mind, don't be stupid read the quote. Of course town > mafia or we already would have lost. | ||
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On October 10 2012 20:46 sandroba wrote: You don't have to vote anyone right now. You have however many votes you want (max 10). You misrepresented ET impossible ratio quote so somehow he knew the mafia number which we don't know yet so you can vote ET. Yes, that's dumb. why are you so mad/ defensive of 1 vote on ET? I don't have to vote, but Im sure as hell not going to ask your permission who/when to vote. I will vote when I see things that warrant a vote, or to push my scum reads to the next round. | ||
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On October 10 2012 23:40 EchelonTee wrote: I'm not changing my 2 votes from 1der unless something absolutely crazy happens (which it won't); I'm only not putting my votes down now for formatting reasons, nothing more. I do admit it looks strange, if you want to call me scum for that then whatever; the following things I'm going to mention is complete bullcrap in comparison. Asking for a scum/town ratio is not stupid, tyvm. It's common even in closed setups for the specific ratio to be known; I've only played in one game where this isn't the case. Heh, living up to my town meta yet again I suppose. (always get accused when I'm town D1, never get accused when I'm scum). While cute that you would accuse me for appearing to "know more about the setup", there is almost no way that the ratio of votes is actually 9x, as you yourself pointed out. No number is even close to that (either 1:11 or 2:10 doesn't work with normal voting mechanics). Therefore, you are making the assumption that I have to be either blue or red without even considering that maybe, just maybe I put down that 9x number randomly? Unless you really think that I am such a poor player that I would either 1. reveal my roles knowledge of votes, or 2. blatantly reveal mafia's knowledge of votes. Excuse the language, but that is completely fracking stupid; that 9x number is completely numerically impossible, and the fact that you are using the random number I threw out as reason to be suspicious is absolutely terrible. And you can't even vote for me this round! You are literally misdirecting town on a terrible lead with the reasoning that "shucks this is as good a reason to vote R1 as anything". No, it's a terrible reason, multiplied by the fact that you are wasting our limited 24 hour time on a person you can't vote on. Care to talk about the people we actually need to vote on? IDGAF if you want to tunnel me as long as you also talk about the stuff that actually matters, which you have failed to do. If you think pointing out one thing and placing 1 vote (that didn't even count btw) is tunneling, well, I dont even know what to say. I don't know why everyone is getting so pissy about it. First read it came across scummy and read to me 9 townies, then afterwards I even said the 9x thing. It's not like I tried to force this vote on anyone, with attitude like this your sure to shut out discussion. This is the biggest over reaction I ever seen. | ||
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On October 10 2012 19:48 kushm4sta wrote: voting momentoss because he's afk and I know his reads are bad voting original because austin has contributed way more already and he's known as a good player voting dauod because of his weird joke that made no sense... alien invaders what? bad reasons? yes subject to change? definintely On October 11 2012 00:06 kushm4sta wrote: metaread on momentoss: he is this dumb as town I know that from liquid city. also he will afk for long periods of time so we have that to look forward to. Im not going to get into a shit throwing fight with you. But please stop pretending you know anything about my meta or my activity level as town. You can click my profile if you want to actually look at my meta rather than making shit up. Kk. | ||
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1. Mementoss: Town Hopeless1der: Hasn't really attempted to create any discussion thus far, and is pretty lurky. Most of his content seems to be in aasking questions about the set-up. Only thing worth while he has said for an opinion has been on prplhz for role-fishing. Pretty agressive against prplhz in his first post. Reading null to me right now I hope he starts posting more discussion worthy things. He is already ahead in the voting brack and I don't have a scum read on him. Therefore I have no reason to vote him. 2. OriginalName: Has been active after the game has started and chose not to participate in any discussion. Other than that nothing. Seems pretty scummy. Already ahead by 3 votes, I have no reason to use a vote on him right now. AustinMcc: He seems to be posting openly about his thoughts about the set-up and teh game in general. My meta read on austin is he likes to play the set-up a bit heavily as town. However, he is mostly all set-up posts as of now. It's still early but later I hope he gets a bit more aggressive with his scum hunting. Still looks town to me. Don't need to vote him right now. 3. prplhz: On October 10 2012 20:02 prplhz wrote: Big plans almost always fail but it's often a pretty good idea to talk about them anyway. Is EchelonTee trying to vote for Hopeless1der? I like Djodref's posting and I don't like da0ud's posting. Well, as much as you can like and dislike stuff 2 pages into the game. In any case I'm going to vote for da0ud right now. He's only gonna get one vote from me (for now) because that's enough to put him in next round. da0ud x1 Id like to here his current opinion on this, and expand if he has a scum read on da0ud or if he thinks hes scummy and why. Or was his vote influenced on that he thinks djodref is town? His first post read very strange to me as well, asking about roles. Reading Null to me. Kushy: On October 11 2012 00:28 kushm4sta wrote: I'm putting my votes down now in the voting thread and yes I'm going to vote on every matchup. I prioritize voting bad people over good people just because I think we are more likely to catch a bad scum than a good scum today, also lynching a good town is way worse than lynching bad town. I am also prioritizing voting for afks instead of actives. hopeless1der x1 originalname x1 da0ud x1 I don't understand fluffy explanation lines like this. Just try to find scum and the voting will come. The rest of his filter seems to be worrying about the setup with 1 liners about his confusing and commented on everyones plans about the vote. I have only played 1 game with him, but I find it hard to read him, and don't understand where he is coming from at times. He is currently losing to prphlz, so I am going to put a vote on him in round 1. Reading a tad scummy, but I am not sure with this guy to be honest. 4. On October 11 2012 00:44 Djodref wrote: I'm going to bed now and I'm going to wake up few hours before the first round deadline. I would like to say that I don't like people who are saying they are voting this one and this one but are not using the voting thread. I don't have a clear view on their motivations. So I'm going to show them the way I would like them to follow. This is an example of what I'm not going to do. On a side note, I don't like lurkers as well. ##Vote Memento ×1 original ×1 @hopeless would you mind explaining your gut feeling? Also I've just noticed that Kush ans ET have used the voting thread This feels like an easy way out round 1, to not get discussion going on actual reads. Just saying Im going to vote the lurkers is a pretty lazy way for scum to get through the voting. He calls me a lurker despite having almost the same post count as me at the time of this post. He is currently reading scummy to me and I will put a vote on him despite him being currently in the lead. Du0ad: Opened with an awkward joke post, hasn't said anything so far, lurking hard. I hope to see him join round 1 and get some votes in. Not voting him just because I have a bit of a scum read on djoref. ##Vote: kushm4sta x1 djoref x1 | ||
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On October 11 2012 02:16 EchelonTee wrote: In my experience, if I don't react strongly to accusations, no matter how inane or small, it just bogs down town because people are wasting time talking about me. I'm not mad; I just want to shut down your weak accusations now so that if you are town, we can work together without lingering misconceptions. I'm not seeking to shut down discussion, but I will be extremely dismissive towards cases on me as they are wrong, and in this case bad. This methodology works for me, and my mislynch rate is extremely low; I'll overract if it gets the job down. You'll notice I didn't vote for you. I'm not saying "YOURE DUMB AND YOURE SCUM", I'm saying you're case was misguided and it's time to drop it, now. Good. If you want people to not see you as a policy lynch this is a good start. I'm okay with this, I was just reading it the wrong way I suppose, in a way too defense over the top matter. Clears things up though. But scum can also over react to scare people away from accusing them, or make people feel stupid for doing it. I don't have a scum tell on you any more for it anyways, reading your explanation and the situation. But at least it generated some discussion among a few. I still don't like the way sandropa responded to it, but that seems to be the general attitude in his posting style. | ||
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ON Hopeless Da0 None of them used any votes officially, and all have 10 votes remaining. Coming down to the wire any one of them as scum could sway the results. | ||
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On October 11 2012 20:59 thrawn2112 wrote: If they're scum and that's their plan then they're pretty stupid because they'd be put in the spotlight for doing that. Not all 3, but it is very possible for one of them to be scum, gaining 2 extra votes after the first round could prove to be a great advantage. | ||
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On October 11 2012 22:11 OriginalName wrote: I had a PM from Kita saying "Why you no post" and promptly forgot the modkill rule. Is this your first game? lol, i don't care as long as you can up your activity to an amount where you can be beneficial to the town killing scum. + Show Spoiler + 6. Posting or sharing any PM you receive from a host. | ||
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And hopeless you look fine with the way you unvoted. I still don't like that particular players will have more influence on the final lynch. | ||
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Thrawn: Playing seems townie to me, hes asking questions where needed. And pushing his own opinions. I'm getting a townie vibe off him. Hopeless: Too much defending himself, not enough provoking discussion or persuing scum reads. Says he doesn't want to give scum reads because of the lynch mechanics and short length of the game. Well if you don't have any scum reads by page 15, you better try to get people talking so you can get something out of them. Something hopeless hasn't attempted. Hopeless also blames lynching mechanics for avoiding scum reads, Its really easy for scum to just discuss matchups and not discuss individual thoughts on the player or try to advance their reads. Right now hopeless seems to be avoiding scumhunting by defending himself from feigning activity. Pretty ironic. I don't need to vote him because hes gunna win this matchup I think. I will vote if I need to. Hopeless leaning scummy. 2. HiroPro I actually can't remember anything he has said or done all game. I wouldn't mind him advancing so the pressure can be on him and he is forced to do something. However, im not willing to use a lot of votes to put him through and his competitor is equally as bad on this front. Null.Honestly don't care who gets through this matchup. OriginalName Lurking pretty hard as well. Only has one post with content so far. But it brings up some pretty decent points. Still he needs more activity into the game, looking forward to what his thoughts are on the other players/matchups. Null. Not voting either. 3. Sandropa: I don't like his posting at all this game. As others have said, most of his posting has been here are my thoughts and gives no reasoning. ET defends him with his meta in this statement: "Sandroba is one of those super strong town players who is comparatively abysmal as a mafia player. When he's mafia, his lack of effort and interest becomes abundantly clear very quickly, sort of like Palmar but even moreso, IMO. Therefore, when he plays mafia I find that he runs active disruption to try and make as much chaos as possible until he inevitably gets shot/lynched. " Which I don't know how ET thinks hes following this, is he reading the same game I am? I think if anything he looks like mafia meta this game, lack of effort and interest seem prevelant in this game, and no attempt to find any scum at all. I would really like him to go through and put some pressure on him to persue some reads. Looks scummy to me. 2 votes. Kushmasta: Posting frequently and openly, I have changed my mind about kush. Althought I usually have a hard time reading him, he seems to be less trolly than usual, and is putting in some effort. If he is scum, he is active enough that we can catch him. 4. ET: Everything about his filter makes me think hes mafia. But maybe Im just reading him completely wrong. He dismisses any comments towards him at all times, hard defends sandroba twice, without real reason or logic to, and is being very sarcastic in the says things to the fact to not get called out on them later. + Show Spoiler + On October 12 2012 02:45 EchelonTee wrote: Uh I just did right there? When there is suspicion on two parties and we assume that at least one is town, then it means that mafia are pushing a townie successfully? + Show Spoiler + On October 12 2012 02:53 EchelonTee wrote: Getting lunch and going to classes. Apparently I have to announce my absences or else I'm "lurking away". His posting is pushing a bad town atmosphere and that is scum agenda. As well as some lines in his posts just seem off, like prplhz pointed out. I think hes scummy but I'm not entirely sure this could just be his meta. Im going to put a vote on him. Djodref: No further thoughts from before. Only reason I'm not voting him is because of my views on ET. Votes: Sandropa x2 ET x1 | ||
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On October 12 2012 18:06 Djodref wrote: As promised, I would like to present you my case against Hopeless. My main points against him are:
Lack of scumhunting + Show Spoiler + He admits it himself in this post in response to Kush On October 12 2012 03:56 Hopeless1der wrote: Addressing more of this: /snip You say I'm feigning activity. My activity is poor, and as close to trivial as it gets, but my actions have clear motive in terms of how people have advanced each round. You claim I'm not scumhunting. No, not in the conventional sense, I'm not. There are now 4 players completely out of the running for todays' lynch, but for all I know, all the scum are in those players. I have no flips and very limited information. I realize I'm not giving people much to work with, but I'll deal with that later. I'd rather not give scumreads because of both the short length of the game so far and the lynch mechanics. I will go through the matchups and give my thoughts on those. Hiro vs ON is already done. Please note also how he implies that we are going to mislynch (all the scum already out comment). This is not scummy but it is at least not good town mentality. On top of that he refuses to give his scumreads invoking bad excuses (what are the lynch mechanics doing here ?) and for this, I clearly don't see any town motivation. Suspicious unvotes at deadline + Show Spoiler + I don't know if you have noticed it but his unannounced unvote at round 1 deadline had a influence on the kush/prplhz match-up. He let Kush advanced over Prplhz. Look at the way he presents it On October 12 2012 03:56 Hopeless1der wrote: /snip I'm getting some flak for my ##Unvote All, part of which is I gave no notice that I was doing anything. However, I had already posted that I was going to be available during the deadline, which no one cared about, and the end result is almost exactly the same. The exception is that you, kush, advanced as a result, BUT Hiro was under the impression that you would have gone through without my 'assistance'. My activity during the deadline had a significant impact, which I would rather people be aware of so that no one is blindsided. /snip I'm not accepting his excuse for this. Should I state that I'm going to be present for deadline tomorrow and happily reverse the result of a matchup ? Is this ok ? I don't like the way he presents it, stating that it almost exactly the same, when his actions led to an opposite results for one match-up. He has no choice but to admit it but the fact he has doing it passively (by unvoting) and shifting the focus on Hiro helped him to make Kush advance (or should I say eliminate prplhz from the competition?) quite unnoticed. At least, I didn't catch up at first. If you guys have all seen this then I'm sorry for bringing this up. What makes it even more suspicious is the global picture:
I would say that Hopeless doesn't really care about who is going to advance in this bracket. And the question I really would like him to answer is what he is planning to do with all the votes that he has carefully saved ? Contradicts himself + Show Spoiler + Firstly he did contradict himself while speaking about letting kush advance. I'm sorry but it not exactly the same when you reverse the issue of a matchup. And here is the second contradiction: I didn't understand why he was so obsessed with people present at deadline and I called him for it. Here is the post he gave me in response On October 11 2012 23:55 Hopeless1der wrote: There is usually a panic towards the end of a day to consolidate votes and have crazy things happen during the final hours. With this lynch mechanic, there isn't enough time to properly consolidate and I think knowing who is willing and able to be active during the deadline is very beneficial to town. Case in point, go look at the way I voted and my concern makes much more sense. I asked for people's deadline schedules again because 7 out of 11 players (not counting myself) posted without acknowledging the question. There seems to be a severe lack of reading comprehension going on in this thread. da0ud is evidently foreign enough that he gets a pass. The rest of you bastards, not so much. What I'm trying to achieve is using my votes in the most efficient way possible to maximize town's advantage this cycle. This, of course, assumes I'm town. I'll explain my reasoning later if necessary. Mementoss, I get that you're suspicious of people having all their votes, but can you look over how I (un)voted and tell me if you think I'm scummy because of it? OriginalName, you still havent addressed why you felt you needed two votes on djodref, ESPECIALLY when he was already leading his matchup. You were literally throwing away votes. What I understood from this answer is that knowing who is present at deadline prevents crazy things from happening. I think that the simplest way from preventing crazy thing to happen is to use your votes and sticking to them. Unvoting like you do results in more possibilities for outcome of MUs to change, something you want to prevent by asking everybody if they are going to be present at deadline or not. I think you want to give yourself some presence in the thread by asking everybody if they are here for deadline or not. In reality you just want to know if you can safely do you unvoting cuisine. With all this I'm pretty sure that Hopeless is scum. I'm going to go full force in him this round against him because I really want him to get lynched today and I may not be able to use my votes on the next round. I'm also interested to see who is going to vote for his concurrent, the Great Lurker, I named OriginalName. Please be aware that I'm not forgiving ON in any way with this post. Right now, I really find Hopeless to be the scummiest among us. Prplhz is also looking scummy in my eyes. I'll develop on this later but I would like first to have some feedback on this case, especially from Hopeless. Hopeless x6 So wait what. Your gunna use up all your votes in the semi finals, so you have no control over who gets lynched? You avoiding responsibility? This seems scum motivated to use 6 votes, scum desperately trying to get 2 townies in the final while avoiding any responsibility from the townie lynch if they successfully do that. | ||
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