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Kreb
4834 Posts
/in | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
On September 29 2012 10:33 BlackMamba24 wrote: huh why wouldn't you be, didn't i specifically ask you to join? did i miss your sign up? what about me then? | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
GLHF! | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
You still didnt reply to what you dont like about Shadys content. | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
On October 01 2012 01:17 kingjames01 wrote: There's no need to be defensive. I said that the post seemed contrived, not that it was. Not sure what part if what Keirathi posted was defensive. He questioned your scum-read, thats all. If anything you're sounding defensive. He asked you to back up your claim and you're the one kinda backing off making excuses it just "sounded" mafia-like but wasnt (and "seemed contrived" but not necessarily was). | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
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Kreb
4834 Posts
He starts off by coming into the game with this post: + Show Spoiler + On October 01 2012 00:19 kingjames01 wrote: I was mafia in a DrH game where there were clues. As mafia, I spent the entire game speculating on what the clues meant and who they were pointing to rather than to actually hunt for spies. The Town got caught up in it and we ended up winning the game with some false claims. I want this game to focus on scum hunting and not rely on the crutch of sifting through possible clues. We should be aware of any players who encourage using time and effort on scum hunting via clues. That being said, I'm going to quote some posts so I don't lose them. They're not proof of alignment yet, but they give off a scummy stench. A bit of a random recap from his other game and following it up with just general statements about how we should play without really saying anything which helps us move forward in our scumhunting. Then quotes a few just "to not lose them" (?????) and saying they're scummy completely without motivation. He then goes on by, as marv put it, "take a lead in the Wiffly Waffly Awards" seemingly wanting to get out of the discussion or anything which can put him in trouble. And finally this: On October 01 2012 03:17 kingjames01 wrote: If we want lurkers to post more, then we all have to contribute meaningfully. This will force scum to come out of hiding in order to fit in. They're going to try to post from the perspective that they're Town but it's pretty hard to do so. At that point we can work on who actually cares about scum hunting and who is just pretending. Which, like the first post, is extremely general and wishy washy without really contributing to scum hunting, while also trying to take a light jab at the lurkers. Also note that lurkers hasnt been a point of discussion so far, so it wasnt like he was joining an already existing conversation, but he phrases it like "if we want lurkers to post more" like if that had been something we had tried to get done or which had already been up for discussion. Even if it had been a discussion, its all just a big "Guys, scum is gonna try to blend in, we really need try our best because then we'll be able to catch them much more easily!!!!" - post, which really says absolutely nothing. | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
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Kreb
4834 Posts
On October 01 2012 08:22 kushm4sta wrote: Kreb, kj post about lurkers was in response to a post I made, asking what stops mafia from hiding among the lurkers. Ok, I can see it being related to that. So maybe a bit bad on my part there. Though you're talking more about just how it works in general with lurkers in a big game where he talks more about how to up lurker posting quantity. And while somewhat related, he isnt really answering question in any way. But as i said, even if it wasnt an honest attempt at replying to your post, its just an extremely general "Guys, scum is gonna try to blend in, we really need try our best because then we'll be able to catch them much more easily!!!!" - post. I'll take into account it might have been an honest reply to you though. | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On October 01 2012 12:42 Z-BosoN wrote: I don't get why people are thinking his trolliness is scummy. He mentioned he was gonna be a troll before he got his role PM. His "all is as was planned" reaction afterwards is the most ridiculous thing he's ever posted imo and just makes me want to punch him. + Show Spoiler + On September 30 2012 13:54 Shady Sands wrote: Yes! Thank goodness the gambit worked. The whole plan was either to troll hard and have some fun, or enjoy a serious, non-troll game of Mafia by inciting the mod to explicitly threaten a modkill for trolling and scare all the trolls into the straight and narrow. Shiao, you can thank me after the game is over. With that being said, I find the easy rando-vote at the beginning highly suspicious. ## Unvote ## Vote Z-Boson Explain your rando-vote without trolling as a factor. I don't see how that's scum-motivated, I'd like someone to explain this to me. At best, it makes him a snot I want to punch. Coags latest post however: Strikes me as much scummier. He didn't feel the need to say why SS seems scummy, as if it were crystal clear as to why he is scum. I also don't like that kingjames fellow. His posts are almost all useless, and don't add basically anything. + Show Spoiler + On October 01 2012 03:17 kingjames01 wrote: If we want lurkers to post more, then we all have to contribute meaningfully. This will force scum to come out of hiding in order to fit in. They're going to try to post from the perspective that they're Town but it's pretty hard to do so. At that point we can work on who actually cares about scum hunting and who is just pretending. On October 01 2012 01:33 kingjames01 wrote: What? I didn't say that it was contrived. I said it seemed contrived. The point was that it seemed contrived. And his "interrogation" of shady sands, which I don't clearly see the purpose of: One more thing that I don't like is VisceraEyes's case history. Spends a billion posts tunneling annul, based on a "trying to spot clues" (?) read. Then suddenly feels that his emotions got the better of him, and reconsiders. Which is funny, because VE started the attacks. It's not like he was attacked and got emotinal. Then in this post: He finally addresses shady sands and proposes to vote on him. Now look at how he addresses kingjames. In this same post, he goes from a "not a scum read", to a "someone I want dead". At first I thought it was understandable because he was referring specifically to KJ's input on scumhunting in an inactivish environment. However, it's the bolded underlined part that gets to me. What I understood here is that if KJ only had the one post, he would be better than those who haven't posted at all. But then he goes to say that KJ is not commenting on stuff going on in the game (when, ironically, he himself had only just addressed shady sands, which is the first big issue) plus a bunch of other confusing stuff I don't follow, thus putting KJ as a bigger scum read than the rest. I'd like him to clarify this. This concludes the people I don't like so far. Out of those, VE seems the scummiest to me, because his play doesn't make sense for me from a town perspective, his conflict with annul seemed too fake. ##FOS VE I largely agree. I dont see the scum motives behind Shadys "gambit", and he also posted it before the game started. Coagulation is moving up the scummyness ladder with pretty useless posts, the difference between him and kingjames seem to be that kingjames tries to make it look like he's contributing while Coag just posts random shit. Im not sure which one is more scummy but leaning towards KJ in that case. VE's post I dont think is as scummy as you try to make it sound though. He doesnt go from "not a scum read", to a "someone I want dead" but rather from "not a scum read", to a "willing to lynch" and theres a difference there. Though even if theres a difference, its somewhat contradictory and it would be nice with an explanation from VE. I'll put down my vote on kingjames for now, its still the best we have so far in my opinion. ##Vote kingjames01 | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
On October 01 2012 16:53 risk.nuke wrote: ##Vote Shady On the KingJames situation. You guys sure can take some grass and call it a forest. Or misrepresenting and lying as the factual terms are. I dislike defending people unless I'm heavily certain they are town but I mean spouting bullshit on how he's been fake-contributing day1 while half the thread have barely said a word strikes me as heavily weird. More suspicious still the people praising it as legit case. You can't all be scum so are you deliberately ignorant? Yes, because fake-contributing is more scummy than not contributing at all. It should be quite common to have both town and scum hiding among the low post count and little contribution posters. But there is no reason for a town to fake contribute ever (even though new town players probably often feel that way). There are motives for both town and scum to lurk, but there are no (good) motives for town to fake-contribute. Not only do you seem unaware/ignorant of this, your post also raises other questions/concerns: 1) Point me towards the "spouting bullshit" parts. You make it sound like you're disagreeing he is fake-contributing. Is that correct? Whats your take on his posting in that case, if you dont see it as fake-contributing? 2) You vote person A and spend time writing why you didnt vote person B. You havent said a word to back up your Shady vote, and the only thing your filter contains is a suggested Kush-vote. So why did you vote Shady? 3) Are you sitll in favor of a Kush-vote? If so, why? | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
On October 01 2012 16:48 Risen wrote: Because he'd be the first person in the history of mafia to give himself an out pre-game if he drew scum. Even if that was the purpose of his post, how does giving yourself an out pre-game increase the chances of him being (randoming) scum? God thats some silly argumenting. | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
On October 01 2012 19:13 risk.nuke wrote: Fist things first. Now you don't have the first clue about what fake-contribution is which makes it difficult to discuss the subject. A person fake-contributing is someone floating around, have proven to be active + Show Spoiler + otherwise they must fall into the lurker category untill they reach a certain amount of posts which has nothing whatsoever do to with their posts/day ratio) Meaning they can be both lurkers and fake-contributers but not for a couple of days. As for most fake-contributing posts they are not some sort of evil posts in disguise only visible to your lens of truth. They are simply general posts and most often helpful to a lesser degree. Most importantly what you don't grasp is both townies and scum do them and are because of this null-tells. I have absolutely no idea what you mean when you say townies have absolutely no purpose fake-contributing. It's purified dumb. 1 Having now explained the term fake-contributor I can answer your post. It's bullshit to call someone a fake-contributor day 1 almost without exception because it's in generally to early to tell the persons agenda. 2 I voted for shady because it's down to him versus KingJames. Additionally I agreed and considered Shady being scummy even as I suggested the kush lynch. Which was done because I didn't want to sheep others the first thing I did (because there is little value in that) and because I wanted to discuss other candidates then shady (which was shutdown asap by marv, but nevertheless told me something about marv) As for why I choose kush the filters weren't implied so I picked the first suspicious filter I found. 3 A kush lynch i don't see happening and a voteswitch to kush now I'd disagree with because my suspicion against a successful late bandwagon switch would be greater then my suspicion against kush. (Node. you're late to the party.) If you rephrase the question. Am I still suspicious against kush I will tell you I think kush is scummier now then I did at the time I suggested the vote on him. Great, that actually answers a lot of things. Though I will disagree that "its down to him vs KJ". If you have some solid scum-read on anyone you should share it, theres plenty of time to switch votes. Taking the approach "well its down to guy A or guy B so Im only gonna consider those two" when its like 18 (?) hours left and more than half the players havent even voted sounds kinda lazy. If thats what "early" votes causes to happen I really regret putting down my own vote as early as I did, heh. Anyway, whats your thought on Z-Bosons cases on VE and Coagulation? | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
On October 01 2012 23:06 kushm4sta wrote: Who would I rather lynch? anull because his anger seemed contrived. Contrived anger is one of those things where you can't prove it but if its happening it means they are 100 scum. No town would ever have contrived anger. Then again I'm at quite a disadvantage because I do not know any of the big players meta. VE was quite scummy to me, for instance, like how he dropped that anul vote so easily with a really bad explanation. Marv says he is acting un accordance with his meta though, and that's not something I can really argue with. Let's just lynch shady. Worst case scenario, shady is gone. Sounds pretty win-win. He can get back to his CLIENTS. my read on him is null maybe slightly town. Man, you're trying pretty hard to move away from the spazzy town I know you as. I wasnt really considering you scummy until recently, but you're working so hard to get there Im gonna have to give in soon. Especially the last three sentences makes no sense at all. Actually saying "Lets just lynch X" like you really mean it as a proper argument. Worst case is we lose a town, yes? How is that win-win? And then finishing it by saying you have a null/town-read on him?????? On top of that we have the contradictory part where you say also no one who I want to lynch is getting lynched yet you seem to want to lynch Shady pretty badly. And the phrasing on that quote also make it sound like you have several you wanna lynch, yet you only mention one (annul). Im blown away. I'll unvote, KJ is still a viable target to me but Kush is moving up there too. And I'd like at least a response to the accusations by SS before I completely write him off (dont really consider his posting scummy, but him going lurk-mode when things start to heat up is worrying). ##unvote | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
On October 01 2012 23:33 marvellosity wrote: kush as townie: Will vote for policy lynches just fine, check Calls Cubu probably not mafia but is happy to have his vote on him, check You have a point, but thats a lurker policy vote. If he's looking to lynch lurkers there still 1 or 2 who hasnt posted yet I think. His SS vote in this game seems more like a "I dont like him"-policy vote, which I cant even see how he could justify for himself that it makes sense from a town perspective. | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
On October 01 2012 23:57 marvellosity wrote: Good luck rationalising kush's play from any perspective. As in the post-game to my most recent newbie game, Hapahauli pointed out the significant difference in his town/scum play - his attitude. I'm nowhere near convinced his attitude this game is his scum attitude. This had me interested since I've only experienced town-kush. Posting since more people might want to check it out (Im assuming this is what marv means): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=367548¤tpage=75 | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
On October 02 2012 05:40 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Again as a reader I have seen near no backlash to said lynch which means it seems people don't give a shit about it. Any lynch with such a passive case with near no push against it suggests mafia are fine with said lynch. That is another reason Im starting to feel a bit bad about him. Him moving on from extremely general advice to the whole thread about "we need to play like this guys" to taking light jabs at a lurker or two (who admittedly didnt contribute much) also follows what I could see being a inexperienced player trying to get out of trouble. That said I still dont really feel comfortable voting Kush either. He is very hard to read but as marv pointed out this might be town-kush playing and not mafia-kush. Too bad the deadline is pretty much the worst ever for me (at about 2h before I get up for work) so I wont be able to change my vote should anything come up the last 4-5h. Im still leaning towards KJ because its seemingly much less of a loss mislynching him than someone more active though. I'll try to make up my mind in the next 2h or so and present my vote. | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
On October 02 2012 07:47 risk.nuke wrote: Nope, don't buy it. The guy clearly had insight in what's going on so I'm making the assumption that he's been following the thread. And when a player lurk hard with that kind of first and only post I'm getting pretty damn suspicious he's discussing the game elsewhere. Are you suggesting a Sharrant vote? Despite you having said you have scum reads on Kush and Shady you still havent voted. Or are you still determined to vote one of those two? | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
The case by Talis on VE would seem much stronger had more people jumped in and backed it up he played like his scum-meta. But that didnt happen, rather the opposite. And considering I've got no meta information at all myself on VE I cant really comment on the case itself. But it really doesnt seem to take off, so I have no reason to look at this any further. Then we have BC pointing towards austin and risk. Out of those I'm currently thinking austin over risk. The reason being that risk came into the thread with a very agressive, insulting hard-defense of kingjames. First of all it seems a bit wierd for a mafia to come into a thread with that attitude. But his kind of agressive/insulting posting style has continued which at least to me makes it look genuine and not some kind of forced mafia stunt. Also we have this comment by sloosh: At the same time he [risk.nuke] can be totally lazy so you have to wait for him to generate content then evaluate what he brings. And lazy was pretty much exactly the word I called him when he decided to go for only Shady/Kush in the beginning rather than pushing any read himself. Not saying I have a town read on risk, but less of a scum read than austin. Austin on the other hand indeed had a pretty bad reason to vote for KJ. And his obsession with the spy comment seem a bit..... out of place. Cant say Im feeling super convinced about this either considering how early it is into the game and the length of peoples filters, but meh, gotta place my vote somewhere. As such: ##Vote austinmcc I'll be around for ~20 more min before going to sleep, not expecting something to happen but leaving the possibility open. | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
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