EPTRockband Mini Mafia
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Unless that's a 1 base build you gotta survive my 1 base attack first | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OfUTql.png) In This Picture: Mvp presents his solution to the Protoss Deathball. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
of course I'm actually a super terrible scum player but I'm gonna leave that idea on the shelf for now. Maybe I've learned a bit from my own coaching, but I suspect I'll still be the same old BH once the game starts. Don't expect any SK claims from me this time around though, I've learned my lesson. I've learned it well. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On September 18 2012 06:07 prplhz wrote: there are a couple of people around i have no idea who is, can anybody explain to me who mkfuba07 is? You only ask this question or similar when you roll scum. Scum games where you asked the question: GSL Open: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=365925&user=126438 You open this game with On September 06 2012 05:48 prplhz wrote: hello everybody should write something then i'll read it tomorrow evening and tell you who is scum also can anybody explain to me who ange777 is? thanks DF Mini: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=358346&user=126438 You wait quite a bit after the game start to open up with this: On August 08 2012 05:38 prplhz wrote: Hey didn't read thread yet can anybody tell me who is scum? The scum game in which you don't ask this question, you aggressively push a Policy Lynch of MrZ because he's a terrible player: Movie Star: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=346522&user=126438 And you open the attack like this: On June 22 2012 07:38 prplhz wrote: I always do stuff. If you didn't notice, before I died I pointed out the last two scum. Everybody was just lynching me because of something someone else did which sucked out my motivation but I still read thread and filters. How exactly is zentor in a game that he /outed? What these openers all have in common is that they generate discussion and let you make accusations without backing them up, doing analysis, or generating associative tells. Obviously it's not perfect, since you caught some heat for it in Movie star, but you deflected the heat rather expertly in my opinion. Now, admittedly, the link between this openings seems tenuous at first glance. But the difference between how you open as scum and how you open as town is like night and day-- I've hosted and co-hosted enough games with you in it to tell the difference (yes, that's an appeal to authority, but it's a legitimate appeal). Obviously, I want people to evaluate the evidence for themselves, so I'm gonna point out some Town games where you could have asked this question or similar, but quite notably did not, because you actually do the work yourself as Town. In fact, you never ask the question as town. Notably, you don't ask the question in the following games that had smurfs or people you hadn't played with before. Town games, in which you don't ask the question: Mad Men Mini: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668&user=126438 In this game, you roll town, and here's your opening post: On August 03 2012 10:34 prplhz wrote: And we're off. This is a 23 player game and I will not be able to handle it if there is a 130 page spamfest between a couple of people before night1. Seriously, condense your god damn posting. That said, there's also a couple of new/newer people on the list. You guys remember to post your thoughts and stuff on the game. No one here bites. On August 03 2012 10:43 prplhz wrote: Last time you did whatever you also had some alignment (presumably). Should we read anything into this? (The answer is: maybe, but probably not) This is my first normal size game in a while 'cause I have a hard time simply reading 300 pages, especially if it's all dumb spam. I don't want this to happen this game. I understand and tolerate that some players have a style that requires them to post more than others but please don't get into yelling contests 'cause we can all agree that those are bad for town. Really bad for town. Do I need to remind you of VisceraEyes vs marvellosity in Normal Mini Mafia II? This is a real town post. Yeah, you get lynched D1 but you start off with not just some general platitudes about posting, you actually encourage the players you don't know to post. You don't ask inane questions. You're fearless, and aren't afraid to vote first (link) and ratchet up the pressure afterwards (link) which may not be the best strat, but is definitely townie. You are bullheaded with your reads and aggressive. You don't prod first then vote, you vote then prod. All this in a game in which admittedly there are people you don't know at all. It's what a townie would do. In iGrok's Mini http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341558&user=126438 you had to replace in, and this was your opening post: On June 16 2012 02:37 prplhz wrote: Hey After Liar Game I decided never to join another invite game. I simply feel outclassed because I'm simply outclassed. But then you guys needed a replacement and chaoser already had a 2 page filter and it was [M][N] so I thought what the hell. This means that I'm just going to post whatever I feel like and if some (or all) of it is dumb then you can just kiss my derriere. chaoser had a 2 page filter and he was vanilla townie. If you look hard enough then you should be able to see that. It's going to take a while before I can get a 2 page filter and expecting me to appear hyper townie on day1 (well, my day1) is pretty silly. Think we're at night 2 so I should have a good 48 hours to read the thread and form some reads. Expect anything more from me and you're going to be disappointed. If you really feel that chaoser was scum then I can only tell you to read his filter again or be wrong. Obviously some of this was necessitated by replacing in for a lurking townie N1. But what's your followup? How does a town prplhz charge into a difficult game? Why, he votes first (link) and provides evidence and support later (link) (link) (link) This covers just about everything going back through July, with one notable exception: You rolled scum in Normal Mini II and proceeded to play a highly worthless scumgame http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349058&user=126438 consisting mostly of votes and one-liners. I hope we'd lynch you for anything like this, but this is the one game that doesn't fit into this meta-analysis of your play this game, so I thought I'd bring it up. Scum prplhz doesn't ALWAYS ask inane questions / take baseless positions-- once, he voted randomly and only posted one-liners. Still, I think the evidence is clear: prplhz as scum likes to ask dumb questions and take stances that don't reveal any scumhunting, and prplhz as town is aggressive with his vote and follows it up with questioning, rather than carefully prodding first. Town prplhz is fearless and not afraid to die to prove his point. He's not cautious. He's also not present this game. This is scum prplhz. Scum prplhz does vague prodding like he has in this game (link) and unhelpful questioning (his entire filter lol) Also, from a purely analytical perspective, this isn't what a townie does. As a townie, yes, you ask questions, but you ask questions that are reasonable and that force people to respond in ways that reveal their scumminess. When you ask someone a question, you do it to pressure them and to get information. You do it for the town. Town prplhz would NOT ask this question: On September 18 2012 06:07 prplhz wrote: hey guys please no unnecessary bullshit it's perfectly possible to play the game without that and it only serves to make the game harder to read there are a couple of people around i have no idea who is, can anybody explain to me who mkfuba07 is? Because Town ANYBODY would not ask that question. Numerous people answered it instantly (and also noted that prplhz already knew the answer himself) and it looked, at first, like it was a discussion-generator. It's not. Randomly regurgitating what games someone has replaced into isn't discussion. Prplhz isn't discussing things. He's just slapping shit in the thread and hoping we let him skate by. He's husslin us. No more husslin. ##vote: prplhz come at me bro | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On September 18 2012 06:56 Mementoss wrote: I read it. It seems like you played with him alot and can really differentiate between his scum and town. It's not the most for sure case of all time, but the post felt scummy to me as soon as I read it and even moreso when I realized he hosted a game with MKfuba in it. He's the scummiest player so far. Iamperfection seems like noobie, why would mafia out themselves like that, also I think he is bitter because of his history with marv. ##vote: prplhz Blazinghand what do you think of hapa immediately coming to prplhz defence? + Show Spoiler + On September 18 2012 06:35 Hapahauli wrote: Hai gais! Good to be back in a mini so I can actually keep track of people more closely =) Prplhz isn't exactly the most attentive host... I was in that game, and he basically forgot to make the last nightpost for a couple of hours. I wouldn't expect him to remember half the players in that game tbh =P Not worth looking into until after we lynch Prplhz and flip town. Associative tells between unflipped players on D1 is dumb. Hapa is scummy or not scummy on the merits of his own posting, not how he interacts with Prplhz-- until of course, Prplhz flips. On September 18 2012 06:56 Mementoss wrote: Also what do you think of this clear contradiction from prplhz: + Show Spoiler + On September 18 2012 06:07 prplhz wrote: hey guys please no unnecessary bullshit it's perfectly possible to play the game without that and it only serves to make the game harder to read there are a couple of people around i have no idea who is, can anybody explain to me who mkfuba07 is? Not a contradiction. Prplhz posts images like this as town all the time even when exhorting people not to be spammy. Hell, I do it all the time. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tVWj2l.jpg) He's not scummy cause of his image post. That's not scummy at all. He's scummy because he's playing like scum prplhz and he's not hunting scum, and he's trying to look like a contributor when in fact he is not. On September 18 2012 07:00 Hapahauli wrote: @ BlazingHand Sample size ftw. You list a grand total of TWO town games to compare his opening lines against, one of which is a replacement game. I highly doubt his first post is indicative of his alignment. That being said, it's usually pretty easy to tell if he's scum no? As you said in your own post, he's often very disinterested as mafia, and plays very differently as town. You're an idiot if you think that I accuse him of being disinterested as mafia. He did that in one game. In the other games, he prods and does literally what he's doing this game. Read my damn case before you decide you have an opinion. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On September 18 2012 07:04 Hapahauli wrote: ... or it's not obvious at all, and it's a typical bad D1 case making insane meta connections with barely any samplesize? If you're pressuring him or whatever, cool, but the case is in no way "damning" or "TOO obvious." In fact, I'd expect scum to be the people most willing to be jumping on BH's case without so much as a thought. Namely austinmcc and mementoss I literally sampled every game he's played in the last 3 months. If you think he's so damn town either argue from this dataset, or increase it, or present another case. I do, however, agree with you that scum may try to bus him. Dudes jumping on his case without explanations as townies are A) letting scum do the same thing and skate by and B) setting themselves up for mislynches. If you have a reason to be for or against his lynch, STATE IT. As town you should have no reason to fear thinking openly and logically. Hapa is right (on this particular issue). | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On September 18 2012 07:06 Hapahauli wrote: @ BH Read your "damn case." If you want to make a meta-case based on a couple of his posts, go riiiiiiiight ahead. I personally find it worthless without more context. You took the first posts of two of his town games to compare against, one of which was a replacement game. That reads confirmation bias up the butt. The fact of the matter is, as town prplhz is aggressive, throws his vote around, and is fearless, and in like 4 scum games he is the opposite. Sorry, is 4 scum games not enough to convince you to vote him? That's fine! Show me some counter-evidence! If you think he's genuinely town, you have 2 options to move my vote off him. 1) show me my case is wrong (rather than just poking at it ineffectually). I've seen you do this as town so I know you can. 2) present a better case. If it's really a bad D1 case like you said, you should be able to do better. Do it. I'll vote who-ever is the scummiest in the thread and lynch scum. Right now, that's prplhz, and you have utterly failed to convince me otherwise. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On September 18 2012 06:55 austinmcc wrote: <3 everyone at all, but you need to look further. He's generally not being killed off for supersexy scumhunting, but because he comes off as very townie and is generating a lot of discussion/activity from others. His early reads, although I haven't read recent games, are not generally a big threat to mafia. I don't know how anyone can munch on pudding. I DO kind of like that observation. It feels almost TOO obvious but...man it's kind of damning. Elaborate. Now. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On September 18 2012 07:14 Hapahauli wrote: Sample. Size. It's been... what... an hour? If "townie" prplhz is aggressive, fearless, throws his vote around, you need much more than a half-page of filter to figure that out. Maybe you have some sick meta read on him or something, but I sure as hell can't see it in that case. I'll propose a lynch candidate as the day gets underway. It may be prplhz, who knows, but it sure as hell won't be based on his first-posting tendencies. Hell you can probably find my first-posting tendencies as town/mafia that won't be indicative at all of my alignment. I'm sure as hell I could do the same for anyone here. I'm much more interested in overall mentality and behavior rather than some silly meta-pattern. Prplhz mentality and behavior is that of a dude who is prodding and asking inane questions to which he already knows the answer. This rings alarm bells for me, and it's the reason I did some research into his meta in the first place. You're welcome to dismiss the meta, but the fact of the matter is he has done no scumhunting and has tried to appear active when in fact he is asking questions which do not apply pressure and to which he already knows the answer. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On September 18 2012 07:17 goodkarma wrote: @Blazinghand: It's great to finally play with you  .But didn't you say something along these lines in your scumhunting guide?: Why would you place so much weight on a "meta"-read based off the way someone's opened up playing a game, when you consider such a strategy generally weak? I consider a small sampling of games like that to hardly be "conclusive" that prplhlz would only behave as he has here as scum. However, that prplhlz's play doesn't generate any meaningful discussion is a valid point. This is definitely scummy behavior. Present me as scummier target and I'll gladly vote him. Feel free to dismiss the meta elements of the case if meta isn't to your taste, but you do admit (and props for that) that in addition to playing his scum meta, prplhz is also objectively playing like scum. On September 18 2012 07:17 goodkarma wrote: On Policy Discussion: As for how the game's started out: now for the last few games I've played in they start with trolling, which turns into hasty accusations, which then eventually turns into an actual game of scumhunting... We've already gone this direction again... I don't understand why policy has been so rarely brought up at the start of games (at least the games that I've played), as it is far more productive than trolling. I'd like to briefly discuss policy here: If for whatever reason we can't find someone who we feel has a decent chance of flipping scum, I propose we lynch a lurker. Tbh, I don't believe we will have this problem. But we should have some kind of contingency plan to fall back on if discussion, for whatever reason, takes us nowhere. If you can't find someone who you feel has a decent chance of flipping scum after 48 hours in this game, you should leave and never come back. If you want to do a policy lynch later on, propose it and I'll evaluate it on its merits. I reserve the right to vote for who I want, when I want, for the reasons I want. I also reserve the right to tell you you're awful for not having a scumread. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On September 18 2012 07:16 austinmcc wrote: Elaboration on the first half - + Show Spoiler + On July 15 2012 00:43 austinmcc wrote: Here's something to consider as well, but I don't know that it matters much. Matt posts that he's going to sheep marv. Matt never sheeps marv. Okay, that's just dumb but not really scummy. But... Nobody else seemed concerned about this. I'm guessing nobody knows why I asked this? Take a look at marv's last 5 town games: MTG unthemed mini (both played) - D1 marv votes Mouldy Jeb (town), D2 pushes zealos (scum) bang bang (mattchew didn't play) - D1 marv suspects RoL (town), shoots Gonzaw (cop) movie star (both played) - D1 marv votes Zentor (town), D2 marv votes mattchew (scum), and N2 shoots VE (town) LVI (both played) - D1 marv votes foxtrotter (town), N1 shoots drwiggl3s (town) NMMII (mattchew didn't play)- D1 marv votes drwiggl3s (town), N1 shoots MsZontar (town) Recent games, Marv is 0/5 on D1. 0/3 on vigi shots. 2/4 on D2 reads. Mattchew PLAYED in three of those games, so he's seen this. No offense marv, you know I agreed on a chunk of those reads and pushed some of those players, but your D1 reads, empirically, aren't good for sheeping. I didn't post that summary yesterday because matt didn't look like a lynch candidate and I thought that, if it did anything, it would just derail thread, because nobody was talking about matt really. Plus, it's not quite ... scummy? It shows he's not paying full attention, not really having solid reasoning, but it's not outright scummy to be wrong about marv's D1 reads being better than gonzaw. However, it gave me pause. Something to think about. Elaboration on the second half - Pudding is soft. Munching feels like it requires chewing, crunching. Can't do that with pudding. As to the obvious bit, obvious is the wrong word. I like...neat observations like that. It says something, unsure what, about you that you could pull out the starts to prplhz's game just like POOF. Like, I key in on the initial question more than the actual scummy stuff, because there's a chance that prplhz doesn't realize he's started scum games like that. But ... he has to, right? I gotta leave work, but the thought process is convoluted here. The "it's way too scummy, he must be town" argument is dumb on its head. What are you even saying | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Yes, you have successfully posted a link to prplhz' filter in Mad Men. Would you like a cookie? A gold star? It must have been a lot of effort for you, and you really made yourself clear. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
scum could you go in the scum QT and ask him to come back and post plz | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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