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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On September 04 2012 13:48 Risen wrote: Disregard the PM BH. I should just work on changing my meta 1 game at a time. /in My nemesis! :o | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On September 05 2012 08:22 marvellosity wrote: less of the marv-lynching and more sexytimes and cuddles. /in | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
I fkn hate getting cheesed. Everyone fortify your bases, don't get greedy, and hold for the late game and we got this. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On September 06 2012 05:48 prplhz wrote: also can anybody explain to me who ange777 is? A really good scumhunter. She was in Newbie XXII with me, and she basically carried the team to victory, catching a scumslip and then his two partners consecutively after the fallout from it. AFAIK that's her only game so far, but she was really impressive. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On September 06 2012 06:59 Risen wrote: He's saying instead of defending yourself you took the oh my god he sucks route and voted me. I don't think so. I think he's saying that you first post was Kenpachi Rule based on prplhz's first post. Then prplhz Kenpachi Rule'd you first post, and added OMGUS. Kenpachi Rule < Kenpachi Rule + OMGUS is basically what he was trying to say I think. The math makes sense, but the premise doesn't necessarily. I've seen plenty of townies go out of their way to make bogus cases based on someone's first post just to get discussion started. I don't think its particularly alignment telling. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On September 06 2012 07:10 prplhz wrote: I'm not really going to defend myself against your case because it is beyond horrible. It's "You are friendly and confident and you are going to rely 100% on other people's opinion on Ange777 instead of forming your own this makes you scum". Yes, this is your case. First argument makes no sense, second argument is speculating about what I might or might not do in the future which makes it void. It's like if I speculated that you were going to claim scum in the future and then I'll just vote for you now because of it. Zephirdd's case makes no sense because my vote wasn't an OMGUS, his entire post is sketchy. @Keirathi Do you actually have an opinion or are you satisfied just trying to clarify stuff that other people said? What is there to have an opinion about? Both votes are almost equally dumb, but I'm not sure how to read them alignment wise. TL Mafia in general is full of dumb early votes that almost never actually catch scum. This recent post brings up some more questions though. If you weren't "really going to defend [yourself] against [his] case because it is beyond horrible", then why did you feel the need to OMGUS his vote with a vote of your own? | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On September 06 2012 07:24 prplhz wrote: You are saying "If you didn't think his case on you was any good then why did you vote for him?". What??? Yes. That's exactly what I'm asking. Was Risen's vote dumb? Yes. Was it scummily dumb? Hard to say for sure, but first guess would be no. If he has other scummy things to go along with it, then obviously my opinion would change. It felt a lot like a random pressure vote that happens in every game ever. Did it deserve a vote? No, I don't think it did. People make bad "cases" all the time, especially early in day1. The victim's reactions to them are just as telling as the bad case. See NMM XXII. Mordanis made a stupidly bad case on me super early in day 1. What did I do? Brushed it off with a 1-liner and kept looking for scum. Basically, I find it hard to believe that you could get a solid scum read on Risen based on his "case" considering basically every TL Mafia game starts out with an equally dumb "case". | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On September 06 2012 07:40 prplhz wrote: @Keirathi First you don't know what to think, now you've suddenly formed a pretty strong opinion on me but no vote. I don't have a strong opinion on you. At least, certainly not strong enough for a vote yet. I don't believe in throwing votes around lightly. If you look through all of my games, I've only unvoted TWICE in all of them. I need information to make up my mind, but once I do I stick with it. That's why I'm asking you questions and writing out responses to your posts. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
You question me every game for not taking hard stances day 1. My playstyle hasn't changed and isn't going to. I form opinions slowly and deliberately. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On September 07 2012 00:53 marvellosity wrote: uh huh. I went back and looked at Not Themed and noted you were hum-ha there to start with too. But not quite like this. Here (in addition to what I bolded) you've managed to say so little in quite a lot of words. All this bla-bla about kenpachi rule. And for some reason it's prplhz's vote that wasn't warranted, whereas Risen's was even more unwarranted. Prove me wrong, sweetcheeks. How was it even more unwarranted? I see them as almost equally stupid, but at least I can sort of understand Risen's vote. Someone makes that dumb vote based on someone's first post every game. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
Not Themed. You were cop, he was VT. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On September 07 2012 01:19 Risen wrote: How long ago was that Keir? Didn't even remember it. Hmm... why would town Marvel react so strongly to this. He's played with me as scum, he knows how I am there. Maybe he thinks I'm changing purposefully b/c he's also played with me as the "scum" team for two games straight now? That's WIFOM, but he knows this, so maybe he's just analyzing my posts on their own as scummy. This begs the question, what about my posting is scummy to you Marvel? It was in...July? I think. You seemed to remember the game because in pre-game when I said "My Nemesis!" you replied to me, and I was using that game as my reference because you had the really bad Cop claim that derailed the thread for like 36 hours. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
1) The really bad "case" 40 minutes into the game. + Show Spoiler + On September 06 2012 05:57 Risen wrote: Let's start the day by analyzing this post. We can see he offers the olive branch, while at the same time attempting to fake a punch with his threat of cases later. His question is meant to give thread presence, while simultaneously doing jack shit. He's going to be gone for a while, let's make it a permanent leave of absence. ##vote: prplhz I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for that, since virtually every game has someone make a similarly terrible case, but on top of his recent postings, I can certainly see him being scum and sticking his neck out early. 2) Giving his scum read an out: On September 06 2012 06:19 Risen wrote: You then say you'll come back and tell us who's scum. You sound really confident you know who scum is. You scum breh? On September 06 2012 07:09 Risen wrote: For reference, Kenpachi rule = whoever attacks the VT claim first is scum. I don't think it's particularly alignment telling either, but it is scummy in my opinion. Combine that with his OMGUS argument and we have our first scum team member. (I'm like 65% sure prplhz is scum) On September 06 2012 07:10 Risen wrote: You know very well my first post was meant to start discussion and point out some mildly scummy things prpl had said in his post. Then he comes back with an extreme overreaction in the form of OMGUS? Scum. But then: On September 06 2012 07:12 Risen wrote: There is no defense for you at this point if you keep digging yourself a hole. It's early in the day, relax and just scumhunt as the day goes on. So, you seem pretty confident that prplhz is scum before this post (and even a bit after it). So why are you telling him what he needs to do to look townie? If you're really trying to catch a scum, you should be tightening the noose, not giving him a way to slip out of it. Plus, where is your scumhunting as the day goes on? And this: On September 07 2012 00:54 Risen wrote: *snip* From Zephirdd's post "Why do you think prplhz is scum? Tell us chronologically." I never actually thought he was scum, he was just the scummiest guy in a thread of like 3 posters so he got the ball rolling. His reaction has not sat very well with me, but I really don't like your first sentence in that other post about me being town or at least playing to town meta or something. It just feels really superfluous to the point you were trying to make. That doesn't sound like what you were trying to say earlier. 3) Misrepresentation of facts/WIFOM/etc On September 07 2012 01:04 Risen wrote: Hmm, I can't tell if Marvel is actually an upset towny (though why would he be, from an outsiders perspective look at all the juicy posting that has occured!) or (A)scum trying to make the appearance of bussing me. (B)I think I've only ever played with him as "scum", and he's always posted a lot less. (3)He knows this, though, and he's a smart cookie. Is he posting more now BECAUSE he knows I'm in this game and since he's scum he can' tplay like he did, or is it b/c he's genuinely town? Verdict: WIFOM as fuck. At least with this much posting if he is scum it won't come down to something retarded like in Death Note (ITSMARVELBABYYY YEAHHHHH) A) Bussing you? I don't really understand this part at all. B) Like I pointed out, Risen played with marv as both townies in I Can't Believe Its Not Themed mini 2 months ago. I was in the game too, and ribbed him about it in the pre-game and he replied, so I assumed he remembered. Now he says he doesn't remember the game at all and was just rolling with the punches. So is his memory really just that bad, or is he intentionally saying he doesn't remember because he got caught in a lie? Normally I would give BotD for that, since not everyone will remember every game they've ever played, but it seems really suspect in light of the other evidence. C) All the rest is just major WIFOM. In fact, I'm not even sure what the point of those last two sentences are? Like, he's not using them to condemn marv, nor is he clearing him? He's just using WIFOM as fuck arguments to say "I'm watching you." Why not just say that you're watching him? Conclusion: Too many little things that on their own could be scummy or could just be a bad townie, but combine them all together and it fits the bill of a scum. ##Vote: Risen | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On September 07 2012 02:06 marvellosity wrote: you're thinking it's a scumslip saying bussing instead of wagoning? I certainly had that thought. But in context it doesn't really make sense. You (marv) are trying to appear like you are bussing him (Risen)? Huh? | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On September 07 2012 02:14 Risen wrote: I was speaking from marv's perspective. As scum, the terms is bussing, therefor marv bussing Risen. That isn't hard to understand, and only a scum trying to play stupid would even raise that thought. But you would have to be scum with marv for him to "bus" you. If he's scum and you're town, he could be starting a wagon on you. However, bus and wagon are the same thing from town's PoV. They're only discernible to scum. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On September 07 2012 02:49 Risen wrote: Keirathi your case is pretty bad man. I wish I had the patience to do the segmented response thing, but I'll just be responding to your points raised. 1) Keirathi should know discussion is the most important thing to get started on. Most games it comes in the form of setup discussion or a bad case. What other kind of case is there so early on in the day? You find something particularly disturbing in someone's initial post, and then you pressure them on it. Their response to said pressure, and the thread's response can be especially telling. You're right. Discussion is the more important thing early in day 1. Which is why I gave you the BotD early, and questioned prplhz instead of you. And yes, I know that their response to the "pressure" can be telling. I said that exact same thing yesterday. On September 06 2012 07:35 Keirathi wrote: *snip* People make bad "cases" all the time, especially early in day1. The victim's reactions to them are just as telling as the bad case. *snip* Your early case didn't necessarily make you scummy, but its just more icing on the cake to the rest of your posts. On September 07 2012 02:49 Risen wrote: Like calling someone out for getting discussion started. Then making inane points about how they're giving their "scum read" ways out. 2) I'm giving a potential towny a way to come back. Guess what all scum have as a weakness, and inability to truly hunt scum, because they're just outing their teammates at that point. What does this force scum to do? Kind of like trying to force my lack of pressure on someone, who could just as easily be town as scum, as a sign of being scum. Lack of pressuring someone isn't a sign of being scum, it's a smokescreen used to give the appearance of scumhunting. So why would you, as a "townie", want to put up a smokescreen to appear like you are scumhunting without actually scumhunting. Thats what scum want to do, not townies. On September 07 2012 02:49 Risen wrote: 3)Not remembering a game I played with Marv where we were on different teams (note the I think in what you're calling me out on) is not a scumtell, nor is it misrepresentation of fact. I already answered where marv could potentially be bussing me, and trying to paint the use of bus instead of wagon as a scumtell is a sign of someone trying to push something that just isn't there. The game I pointed out, you were on the same team, both as townie. Which was contradictory to the point you made. You used an "I think..." argument which was blatantly wrong to strengthen your WIFOM bullshit about you being wary of marv. As far as you using the term bus, I didn't actually call you out on that. I asked for an explanation because it made no sense. Like I said to marv, it crossed my mind that it could have been a scumslip, but in context it didn't make sense as a scumslip. In context, and after your recent response, it sounds like you are genuinely misusing the word, which isn't alignment, indicative in any way. FYI: It means mafia throwing their teamates "under the bus" to gain towncred. It has nothing to do with mafia making cases on townies. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On September 07 2012 03:19 Risen wrote: Where is my smokescreen? Is my first case bad? Probably. It certainly isn't the only grounds that should be used to lynch someone, but I do feel like calling someone out for scummy behavior is perfectly acceptable, and a vote can be used to add pressure and get a response. I was just using your own wording. On September 07 2012 02:49 Risen wrote: Kind of like trying to force my lack of pressure on someone, who could just as easily be town as scum, as a sign of being scum. Lack of pressuring someone isn't a sign of being scum, it's a smokescreen used to give the appearance of scumhunting. You admitted to a lack of pressure on someone who could just as easily be down or scum. Then say that lack of pressure is a smokescreen to give the appearance of scumhunting. | ||
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